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Just a few questions

famer
Posts: 679
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8/6/2012 7:26:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Just a few questions because I can't be bothered searching it up myself right now:

1. What does "objective morality" mean?
2. What does "secular morality" mean?

Any clear explanation for a clueless 14-year old would be much-appreciated! (Y)
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bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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8/6/2012 7:34:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. Objective morality is basically an idea that morals are defined and concrete.

2. Not sure, but I would guess it would mean morality without religion.
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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8/6/2012 7:45:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/6/2012 7:26:39 AM, famer wrote:
Just a few questions because I can't be bothered searching it up myself right now:

1. What does "objective morality" mean?
2. What does "secular morality" mean?

Any clear explanation for a clueless 14-year old would be much-appreciated! (Y)

Objective morality means morality exists regardless of the moral agent in question (ignoring their circumstance). It contrasts with subjective morality, where the moral system varies person to person. It is different to absolute morality, which states there is laws of morality we should follow that are practical (like you should never ever ever kill).

Secular morality is morality that exists without religion or God.

Also, this should be in the religion section.
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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/6/2012 9:30:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/6/2012 7:26:39 AM, famer wrote:
Just a few questions because I can't be bothered searching it up myself right now:

1. What does "objective morality" mean?
2. What does "secular morality" mean?

Any clear explanation for a clueless 14-year old would be much-appreciated! (Y)

We all have a personal "moral sense" that tells us what is right or wrong. The question is from where this moral sense is derived.

To say that your morality is "subjective" is to say that it is entirely dependent on you. That is, the only reason the act you are witnessing (say, theft) is bad is because you believe it is bad.

The argued problem with subjective morality is that if you do come upon a thief and say "You ought not do that" the thief could respond "that's your subjective morals speaking. Mine say otherwise. What right have you to impose your subjective morals on me?"

One answer to this problem is to claim that there is such a thing as "objective morality." If something is objectively moral or immoral, then no matter what YOU or I think, the statement remains true. This also means that when confronted with the thief, I can say "theft is wrong regardless of our beliefs about theft."

Secular morality is essentially any form of morality that does not depend on the existence of a deity. This includes objective and subjective moral stances. So, for instance, a Utilitarian (do the most good for the largest amount) can claim to have a secular morality EVEN if he believes in a God as long as his morals do not derive from God.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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8/6/2012 12:47:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/6/2012 7:26:39 AM, famer wrote:
1. What does "objective morality" mean?

It's a weasel term. Discussions of objective morality have this rhythm:

Bob: My car is better because it has a white top. Cars with white tops are better.
Ray: My car has a white top.
Bob: But your car is worse because it has a blue bottom. Blue bottoms are bad.
Ray: Your car has a blue bottom.
Bob: But my car has a white top, so it is better.
Ray: My car has white top.
Bob: But your car has a blue bottom. Blue bottoms are bad.
Etcetera.

That is, the theist claims that objective morality requires a god, "justifying" the claim with reason X.

When you point out that, using the X-test, morality is also objective without god, the theist substitutes the Y-test. Atheistic morality is not objective because Y.

Then you point out that, according to the Y-test, god-based morality isn't objective either.

So the theist reverts to the X-test, insisting that god-based morality is objective because X.

They never stand and defend, but rather constantly change the meaning of "objective morality," and just hope you don't catch them.

In their defense, this isn't conscious equivocation. They don't know they're doing it until you point it out to them. It's just how they're trained.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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8/6/2012 12:49:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/6/2012 9:30:31 AM, Wnope wrote:
Secular morality is essentially any form of morality that does not depend on the existence of a deity. This includes objective and subjective moral stances. So, for instance, a Utilitarian (do the most good for the largest amount) can claim to have a secular morality EVEN if he believes in a God as long as his morals do not derive from God.

Well said!
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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8/6/2012 3:30:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://debateorg.blogspot.com...

I wrote an article a few days ago, about philosophical principles, in the "going deep" section, where I briefly talk about this concept. Not sure what secular morality is, but I do debate objective morality vs subjective morality often.

Here was the passage I wrote on morality:

A huge debate topic recently in on Morality. As controversial as the topic can be, it is always interesting to here the multiple view points that are shared on morality. (1)
The biggest debate on the concept seems to be whether it is objective or subjective. For those of you unfamiliar with the concept, I will explain it the best way I can.

Objective moralists believe that morality can be defined to a specific set of moral principles. These moral principles bind and apply to all humans, and all humans are subject to them. Objectivists usually hold the idea that their principles are right, not only for them, but universally. Arguments commonly made for Objectivists, usually pertain some sort of guilty following actions that violate this moral code. This feeling will be felt everytime an action is done to violate this code. Objective's are also commonly called "absolutists", so don't be confused if you see the word used with the same arguments.

Subjective moralists, also known as relativists, believe that moralities vary between societies, and individuals. Relativity is a concept in which humans create their own moral code, and violate it with the same feelings of guilt, through different actions than other. Common arguments for subjectivity, is a wide variation of difference in political and religious belief. This is to say that, if one person feels guilty after having an abortion, another person with different moral beliefs may not feel guilty. This is because we as humans set up our own beliefs as we learn them. Another common argument is that morality is learned. Someone who learns that inflicting pain on others, stealing, and lying is okay, by watching their paternal figure do this, may grow up willing to do these things with out fear of consequence. Basically the argument is: "what's true for one party, may be different for another".
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