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To the mental handicaps of DDO.

MouthWash
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9/2/2012 8:01:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
If I made the thread about dropping out to steal arguments for my debate, then why the hell did I ask for advice about what to do after dropping out? Isn't that the OPPOSITE of what I was debating? Are you actually that dumb? Phantom was apparently the only one who even read the resolution. Next time you feel like pointing fingers, please take 5 GODDAMN SECONDS to make sure that what you are ranting about is genuine.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
royalpaladin
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9/2/2012 8:03:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Simple. You asked for advice in hopes of finding people who would argue against it so that you could take their arguments. Duh.
MouthWash
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9/2/2012 8:11:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 8:03:16 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Simple. You asked for advice in hopes of finding people who would argue against it so that you could take their arguments. Duh.

Yeah, that's why I ranted against it and demanded that those people stop posting their "advice." I don't know what sort of problem that you have with me, or how you see malice in even the simplest of mistakes, but if you're actually arguing that I made a debate where my opponent would be forced to make an argument supporting dropping out, and then made a thread on the same website about how I was planning to drop out simply for the sake of getting arguments for that debate then you're even more screwed up/illiterate then even I realized. Stop trolling.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
royalpaladin
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9/2/2012 8:12:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I still fail to understand why you made a forum post about a topic that you were debating if you did not wish to obtain arguments. Why would you even make a debate in which you took the opposite stance of what you were contemplating if you only wanted to have a discussion?
royalpaladin
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9/2/2012 8:15:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 8:11:17 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:03:16 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Simple. You asked for advice in hopes of finding people who would argue against it so that you could take their arguments. Duh.

Yeah, that's why I ranted against it and demanded that those people stop posting their "advice."
I never saw you do that, and just because you ranted against it doesn't mean that you had posted that topic for the specific purpose being discussed.
I don't know what sort of problem that you have with me
LOL

Here's a reason: You waltz around this site insulting me because you dislike my beliefs.
, or how you see malice in even the simplest of mistakes, but if you're actually arguing that I made a debate where my opponent would be forced to make an argument supporting dropping out, and then made a thread on the same website about how I was planning to drop out simply for the sake of getting arguments for that debate then you're even more screwed up/illiterate then even I realized.
Explain why you made a debate with the opposite stance of what you were contemplating.

Insults do not justify what you did.
Stop trolling.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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9/2/2012 8:29:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 8:15:04 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:11:17 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:03:16 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Simple. You asked for advice in hopes of finding people who would argue against it so that you could take their arguments. Duh.

Yeah, that's why I ranted against it and demanded that those people stop posting their "advice."

I never saw you do that, and just because you ranted against it doesn't mean that you had posted that topic for the specific purpose being discussed.

I did it on the first two pages.

I don't know what sort of problem that you have with me
LOL

Here's a reason: You waltz around this site insulting me because you dislike my beliefs.

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a fucking lie. I haven't talked to you or voted on one of your debates in ages. You however, voted against me on the gay parenting debate without reading it, and everywhere I go, you're there, trying to make me look bad. Whenever someone accuses me of something, you jump on the dogpile even if it makes absolutely no sense to do so. But this time you really are going too far.

, or how you see malice in even the simplest of mistakes, but if you're actually arguing that I made a debate where my opponent would be forced to make an argument supporting dropping out, and then made a thread on the same website about how I was planning to drop out simply for the sake of getting arguments for that debate then you're even more screwed up/illiterate then even I realized.

Explain why you made a debate with the opposite stance of what you were contemplating.

It's no use. We lock up the clinically insane because they are convinced that they are the only ones who are rational and that everyone else is irrational.

It is the same situation. The troll thinks that she has found some argument for her assertion when anyone with half a brain can see the flaws in her logic. Except in this case, she isn't clinically insane but rather the most antagonistic, impulsive person on this website.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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9/2/2012 8:36:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 8:29:18 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:15:04 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:11:17 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:03:16 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Simple. You asked for advice in hopes of finding people who would argue against it so that you could take their arguments. Duh.

Yeah, that's why I ranted against it and demanded that those people stop posting their "advice."

I never saw you do that, and just because you ranted against it doesn't mean that you had posted that topic for the specific purpose being discussed.

I did it on the first two pages.

No, you did not. Please show me where you explicitly claimed that you wished to debate financial success alone and not success holistically.
I don't know what sort of problem that you have with me
LOL

Here's a reason: You waltz around this site insulting me because you dislike my beliefs.

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a fucking lie. I haven't talked to you or voted on one of your debates in ages.
You still insult me in threads and when I vote on your debates.
You however, voted against me on the gay parenting debate without reading it,
Just because I voted against you does not mean I did not read your debate. In case you noticed, everyone except one person also voted against you. I even explained why I voted against you; my RFD was much better than the RFDs of the people who voted for you.
and everywhere I go, you're there, trying to make me look bad.
Not really. I don't care for half of what you post. In fact, I was trying to help you out until I realized that you were just cheating.
Whenever someone accuses me of something, you jump on the dogpile even if it makes absolutely no sense to do so. But this time you really are going too far.

, or how you see malice in even the simplest of mistakes, but if you're actually arguing that I made a debate where my opponent would be forced to make an argument supporting dropping out, and then made a thread on the same website about how I was planning to drop out simply for the sake of getting arguments for that debate then you're even more screwed up/illiterate then even I realized.

Explain why you made a debate with the opposite stance of what you were contemplating.

It's no use. We lock up the clinically insane because they are convinced that they are the only ones who are rational and that everyone else is irrational.

It is the same situation. The troll thinks that she has found some argument for her assertion when anyone with half a brain can see the flaws in her logic. Except in this case, she isn't clinically insane but rather the most antagonistic, impulsive person on this website.

So you basically have no response and you resort to insults again. I am not surprised.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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9/2/2012 8:43:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 8:36:22 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:29:18 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:15:04 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:11:17 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:03:16 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Simple. You asked for advice in hopes of finding people who would argue against it so that you could take their arguments. Duh.

Yeah, that's why I ranted against it and demanded that those people stop posting their "advice."

I never saw you do that, and just because you ranted against it doesn't mean that you had posted that topic for the specific purpose being discussed.

I did it on the first two pages.

No, you did not. Please show me where you explicitly claimed that you wished to debate financial success alone and not success holistically.

...what? We were JUST talking about the thread. Is your brain really that incapable of holding a single train of thought? I told everybody to stop advising me to go back to school or I would ignore their posts.

I don't know what sort of problem that you have with me
LOL

Here's a reason: You waltz around this site insulting me because you dislike my beliefs.

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a fucking lie. I haven't talked to you or voted on one of your debates in ages.

You still insult me in threads and when I vote on your debates.

No, I don't. I've been trying to ignore you. You only seem to vote on debates where you think I'm already going to lose.

You however, voted against me on the gay parenting debate without reading it,

Just because I voted against you does not mean I did not read your debate. In case you noticed, everyone except one person also voted against you. I even explained why I voted against you; my RFD was much better than the RFDs of the people who voted for you.

You read the other RDF's and tried to make one similar. You proved it yourself when you dismissed my sources and never pointed out what was wrong with them no matter how many times I asked and was countered.

and everywhere I go, you're there, trying to make me look bad.

Not really. I don't care for half of what you post. In fact, I was trying to help you out until I realized that you were just cheating.

No, until you realized that there was some way of making me look bad.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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9/2/2012 9:00:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 8:43:07 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:36:22 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:29:18 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:15:04 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:11:17 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:03:16 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Simple. You asked for advice in hopes of finding people who would argue against it so that you could take their arguments. Duh.

Yeah, that's why I ranted against it and demanded that those people stop posting their "advice."

I never saw you do that, and just because you ranted against it doesn't mean that you had posted that topic for the specific purpose being discussed.

I did it on the first two pages.

No, you did not. Please show me where you explicitly claimed that you wished to debate financial success alone and not success holistically.

...what? We were JUST talking about the thread. Is your brain really that incapable of holding a single train of thought? I told everybody to stop advising me to go back to school or I would ignore their posts.

I already explained that just because you said it doesn't mean you weren't looking to get it.
I don't know what sort of problem that you have with me
LOL

Here's a reason: You waltz around this site insulting me because you dislike my beliefs.

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a fucking lie. I haven't talked to you or voted on one of your debates in ages.

You still insult me in threads and when I vote on your debates.

No, I don't. I've been trying to ignore you. You only seem to vote on debates where you think I'm already going to lose.

LOL, no, I've voted on like 2 of your debates recently, and those were ones that you lost.
You however, voted against me on the gay parenting debate without reading it,

Just because I voted against you does not mean I did not read your debate. In case you noticed, everyone except one person also voted against you. I even explained why I voted against you; my RFD was much better than the RFDs of the people who voted for you.

You read the other RDF's and tried to make one similar. You proved it yourself when you dismissed my sources and never pointed out what was wrong with them no matter how many times I asked and was countered.

and everywhere I go, you're there, trying to make me look bad.

Not really. I don't care for half of what you post. In fact, I was trying to help you out until I realized that you were just cheating.

No, until you realized that there was some way of making me look bad.

No, I got irritated because I spent 40 minutes typing advice for you, and you just wanted to use that for a debate.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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9/2/2012 9:35:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 9:00:08 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:43:07 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:36:22 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:29:18 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:15:04 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:11:17 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:03:16 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Simple. You asked for advice in hopes of finding people who would argue against it so that you could take their arguments. Duh.

Yeah, that's why I ranted against it and demanded that those people stop posting their "advice."

I never saw you do that, and just because you ranted against it doesn't mean that you had posted that topic for the specific purpose being discussed.

I did it on the first two pages.

No, you did not. Please show me where you explicitly claimed that you wished to debate financial success alone and not success holistically.

...what? We were JUST talking about the thread. Is your brain really that incapable of holding a single train of thought? I told everybody to stop advising me to go back to school or I would ignore their posts.

I already explained that just because you said it doesn't mean you weren't looking to get it.

I threatened to IGNORE their posts. They ignored me.

I don't know what sort of problem that you have with me
LOL

Here's a reason: You waltz around this site insulting me because you dislike my beliefs.

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a fucking lie. I haven't talked to you or voted on one of your debates in ages.

You still insult me in threads and when I vote on your debates.

No, I don't. I've been trying to ignore you. You only seem to vote on debates where you think I'm already going to lose.

LOL, no, I've voted on like 2 of your debates recently, and those were ones that you lost.

Um, doesn't that prove my point?

You however, voted against me on the gay parenting debate without reading it,

Just because I voted against you does not mean I did not read your debate. In case you noticed, everyone except one person also voted against you. I even explained why I voted against you; my RFD was much better than the RFDs of the people who voted for you.

You read the other RDF's and tried to make one similar. You proved it yourself when you dismissed my sources and never pointed out what was wrong with them no matter how many times I asked and was countered.

and everywhere I go, you're there, trying to make me look bad.

Not really. I don't care for half of what you post. In fact, I was trying to help you out until I realized that you were just cheating.

No, until you realized that there was some way of making me look bad.

No, I got irritated because I spent 40 minutes typing advice for you, and you just wanted to use that for a debate.

Not responding to the above for obvious reasons.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Man-is-good
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9/2/2012 12:17:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 10:42:26 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Wow you two, get a room.

After that, it'll all be over, apparently. I tried contacting 000ike for one but he explicitly feared the sanctity of sharing...a "room" that bordered upon his person and mine. ;)
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
imabench
Posts: 21,216
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9/2/2012 1:29:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
List of potential arguments given to Mouthwash that he could use to argue in his debate

"you'll never get a good job"
- OberHerr

" That (Not having a Diploma) will look deplorable on an application"
- OberHerr

" A college degree is useful in the sense that you NEED it to get a good job"
- OberHerr

" Employers don't care If someone is a "self-learned" person. Most degrees are actually completely useless. Its the signal that comes along with a degree."
- Darkkermit

" Yeah, the high unemployment rates among high school dropouts doesn't mean a thing."
- Unstupendousman

"if you don't have the diligence and concentration to succeed in school, what makes you think you'll succeed anywhere else?"
- 000ike

"Recent dropouts will earn $200,000 less than high school graduates, and over $800,000 less than college graduates"
- Logic_on_rails

"if money is what you connect success to, you are going to at least need a highschool degree in this day and age"
- THEBOMB

" Cause if you don't ever have a HSD, no one will look twice at your resume for applying. They'll just toss it in the trash."
- OberHerr

"If you need to ask others for advice, then you clearly don't know what you're doing. And guess what? That's what HS and college is for "
- Fourtrouble

" It won't look good to potential employers. They will ask you why you dropped out, and your response would be because you didn't want to do the work. That doesn't look good at all"
- EvanK

"On every single minimum-wage job application that I filled out, I was asked the name of my high school, the name of my college, my college major, my degree status for both high school and college, and my GPA"
- Royal Paladin

" If you are failing high school, minimum wage employers will assume that you are lazy and do not have the skills to succeed in the workplace"
- Royalpaladin

"It's easy to say "I'll live on my own" when you're with your parents and they're cooking, cleaning, and paying rent for you while providing you with services like WiFi and a laptop. In the real world, nobody is going to do that for you"
- Royalpaladin

"It's almost guaranteed that you will not be a success story based on statistics."
- Royalpaladin

"Unless you work at a lowly minimum wage job (which doesn't give you time to self-educate), your potential employers are going to ask where you went to high school/college, what your GPA was etc"
- F-16

"Not all high school and college education is useful but it is certainly a stamp of approval that you want to have before you apply for a job"
- F-16

"I hated HS and learned next to nothing from it but I realized society is structured in such a way that the chances of success in life are diminished to near zero without a HS degree or an equivalent." - Socialpinko

"While my life wasn't destroyed by it, it has certainly made my life that much more difficult" - PARADIGM_LOST

"And please tell me what magic land offers 7 figure jobs to 17 year old's with no real work experience and not even a high school diploma"
- PARADIGM_LOST

"No matter who you think you are, you're not going to get far in life without a college degree, much less a high school diploma."
- Viperking

The entire thread is literally full of people feeding you ideas that could be used for your debate, and here though is the most damning evidence of all,

"MouthWash, if you were actually serious about dropping out of school you wouldn't have posted it here. You're just looking for reasons not to do it" - Korashk
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

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MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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9/2/2012 6:26:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 1:29:43 PM, imabench wrote:
List of potential arguments given to Mouthwash that he could use to argue in his debate

"you'll never get a good job"
- OberHerr

Opinion.


" That (Not having a Diploma) will look deplorable on an application"
- OberHerr

Opinion.


" A college degree is useful in the sense that you NEED it to get a good job"
- OberHerr

Bare assertion.


" Employers don't care If someone is a "self-learned" person. Most degrees are actually completely useless. Its the signal that comes along with a degree."
- Darkkermit

Opinion.


" Yeah, the high unemployment rates among high school dropouts doesn't mean a thing."
- Unstupendousman

How hard would it have been for me to Google these statistics?


"if you don't have the diligence and concentration to succeed in school, what makes you think you'll succeed anywhere else?"
- 000ike

Opinion.


"Recent dropouts will earn $200,000 less than high school graduates, and over $800,000 less than college graduates"
- Logic_on_rails

Again, there's fucking Google.


"if money is what you connect success to, you are going to at least need a highschool degree in this day and age"
- THEBOMB

Opinion.


" Cause if you don't ever have a HSD, no one will look twice at your resume for applying. They'll just toss it in the trash."
- OberHerr

Bare assertion.


"If you need to ask others for advice, then you clearly don't know what you're doing. And guess what? That's what HS and college is for "
- Fourtrouble

Opinion.


" It won't look good to potential employers. They will ask you why you dropped out, and your response would be because you didn't want to do the work. That doesn't look good at all"
- EvanK

Opinion.


"On every single minimum-wage job application that I filled out, I was asked the name of my high school, the name of my college, my college major, my degree status for both high school and college, and my GPA"
- Royal Paladin

Selection bias.


" If you are failing high school, minimum wage employers will assume that you are lazy and do not have the skills to succeed in the workplace"
- Royalpaladin

Opinion.


"It's easy to say "I'll live on my own" when you're with your parents and they're cooking, cleaning, and paying rent for you while providing you with services like WiFi and a laptop. In the real world, nobody is going to do that for you"
- Royalpaladin

How the HELL could this have been used in the debate? You're just posting anything and everything even remotely related to your purpose.


"It's almost guaranteed that you will not be a success story based on statistics."
- Royalpaladin

Selection bias, plus I could have Googled this.


"Unless you work at a lowly minimum wage job (which doesn't give you time to self-educate), your potential employers are going to ask where you went to high school/college, what your GPA was etc"
- F-16

Could have Googled.


"Not all high school and college education is useful but it is certainly a stamp of approval that you want to have before you apply for a job"
- F-16

Opinion.

"I hated HS and learned next to nothing from it but I realized society is structured in such a way that the chances of success in life are diminished to near zero without a HS degree or an equivalent." - Socialpinko

Opinion.

"While my life wasn't destroyed by it, it has certainly made my life that much more difficult" - PARADIGM_LOST

Anecdotal evidence.


"And please tell me what magic land offers 7 figure jobs to 17 year old's with no real work experience and not even a high school diploma"
- PARADIGM_LOST

Bare assertion.


"No matter who you think you are, you're not going to get far in life without a college degree, much less a high school diploma."
- Viperking

Opinion.

The entire thread is literally full of people feeding you ideas that could be used for your debate, and here though is the most damning evidence of all,

"MouthWash, if you were actually serious about dropping out of school you wouldn't have posted it here. You're just looking for reasons not to do it" - Korashk

Opinion.

Every single bit of evidence here is ridiculous horseshit. People seem to actually like the idea of me cheating. Now I expect that from royalpaladin, but I think the reason so many believe this incessant insanity is because it's like an entertaining "drama" to them. Pretty much like the WriterDave episode.

I ask you to explain these, imabench-

1. ConservativePolitico had a debate on how useful college was. Couldn't I have taken statistics from there?

2. Isn't it kind of fucking stupid to try to get arguments for a debate- on the same exact website where people can see the debate?

3. I am not interested in arguing in favor of school. I've previously made my position clear [http://www.debate.org...]. There was no point in making this debate other than to gain advice, and it makes contextual sense that I simply wanted someone to make a case against school. That's why I made it so that Con should go first. It was my way of doing quick research.

4. I've already asked this question on Mises.org: [http://mises.org...]. Notice I made that thread BEFORE I even started the debate, which essentially proves I was researching the topic beforehand. And that is what instantly destroys all of the BS you keep spouting. Since making a thread BEFORE doing the debate would simply count as researching, couldn't I have simply done that in the first place? Why not make the thread to do research and then do the debate? DOESN'T THAT MAKE MORE SENSE?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Apollo.11
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9/2/2012 6:37:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 8:01:55 AM, MouthWash wrote:
If I made the thread about dropping out to steal arguments for my debate, then why the hell did I ask for advice about what to do after dropping out? Isn't that the OPPOSITE of what I was debating? Are you actually that dumb? Phantom was apparently the only one who even read the resolution. Next time you feel like pointing fingers, please take 5 GODDAMN SECONDS to make sure that what you are ranting about is genuine.

WIFOM.
Sapere Aude!
imabench
Posts: 21,216
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9/2/2012 7:37:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Every single bit of evidence here is ridiculous horseshit. People seem to actually like the idea of me cheating. Now I expect that from royalpaladin, but I think the reason so many believe this incessant insanity is because it's like an entertaining "drama" to them. Pretty much like the WriterDave episode.

You do realize that over the months there have been people who start debates and then after the debate starts they use forums or similar debates just to take arguments from them to use in their own debates. Its been used on me a few times too. Whats insane about your case is that this kind of thing is usually a tactic only used by morons or trolls whereas you have been around for sometime now and actually have made a name for yourself.

I ask you to explain these, imabench-

I LOVE 20 QUESTIONS :D

1. ConservativePolitico had a debate on how useful college was. Couldn't I have taken statistics from there?

Easily.

2. Isn't it kind of fucking stupid to try to get arguments for a debate- on the same exact website where people can see the debate?

Yeah, and thats why people are losing their minds that you would get caught up in something like this.

3. I am not interested in arguing in favor of school. I've previously made my position clear [http://www.debate.org...].

Believe me, im well aware.

There was no point in making this debate other than to gain advice, and it makes contextual sense that I simply wanted someone to make a case against school. That's why I made it so that Con should go first. It was my way of doing quick research.

If you are telling the truth that you used the forums to debate and used the debate to gain information, you have to understand that is the exact opposite of how things work on DDO. People usually use debates to debate and use forums to gather information, very very rarely is it used the other way around and if they are done at the same time it can resemble the signs of cheating on a debate by using the forums to gather intelligence

4. I've already asked this question on Mises.org: [http://mises.org...]. Notice I made that thread BEFORE I even started the debate, which essentially proves I was researching the topic beforehand.

Nobody is talking about that forum, they are talking about the OTHEr forum you made here on DDO on the same day the debate started.

The forum was established on 8/31 at 5:47,
the debate was established on 8/31 but it doesnt show the time so you cant prove it was made before the forum.

And that is what instantly destroys all of the BS you keep spouting. Since making a thread BEFORE doing the debate would simply count as researching, couldn't I have simply done that in the first place?

Yes but heres the thing, whether it was made before or after the debate you can still use information given to you from the forum to use in the debate which is why people are accusing you of cheating.

Why not make the thread to do research and then do the debate? DOESN'T THAT MAKE MORE SENSE?

Yeah but you cant prove that you made the forum before you made the debate which is why people are throwing so much sh*t about this!
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

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TUF
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9/2/2012 7:45:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Okay, even if MouthWash did do this, how is it cheating? Also why does it matter? He didn't actually use any of the arguments given, all his arguments were his own. Also what's wrong with getting ideas from other members in the first place? I don't know whether he did this for his debate specifically, but I just like all of you have no proof that he did this. And even if you did have proof, so what?

This whole thing is ridiculous, imabench, royal, and the rest of you are just trying to stir drama. PEACE BRETHREN. Though I guess MouthWash is guilty too for starting this thread.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
imabench
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9/2/2012 7:54:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 7:45:47 PM, TUF wrote:
Okay, even if MouthWash did do this, how is it cheating?

Its considered cheating because he would be using arguments other people were giving him to use in the debate.

Also why does it matter?

Because people on DDO hate cheating, did you see what people did to YYW for using some kind of hack to increase his character count? (it was scary)

He didn't actually use any of the arguments given, all his arguments were his own.

In which debate? in his debate against THEBOMB he didnt give arguments at all he threw a sh*t fit before he posted anything.

Also what's wrong with getting ideas from other members in the first place?

The controversy is whether or not the forum was made after the debate was made because if the forum was made after the debate it could be assumed that he is using the thread to farm for arguments.

I don't know whether he did this for his debate specifically, but I just like all of you have no proof that he did this.

Forum taking one side of an argument + forum created the same day taking the other side of the same argument leads people to think that sir MW was up to no good.

And even if you did have proof, so what?

People take cheating seriously around here :P

This whole thing is ridiculous, imabench, royal, and the rest of you are just trying to stir drama.

1) Cheating is a serious thing on here, look at any debate where someone was caught plagarizing and you see what I mean
2) If I wanted to start drama I would go and poke Scottydouglas with a stick or make a screwy debate (Like Batman would beat God in a fight)
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
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UnStupendousMan
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9/2/2012 7:59:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 7:45:47 PM, TUF wrote:
Okay, even if MouthWash did do this, how is it cheating? Also why does it matter? He didn't actually use any of the arguments given, all his arguments were his own. Also what's wrong with getting ideas from other members in the first place? I don't know whether he did this for his debate specifically, but I just like all of you have no proof that he did this. And even if you did have proof, so what?

While he may not have used any of the arguments given (which I cannot confirm nor deny, since I haven't read the debate), it's the outsourcing of mental power to others and using their arguments in a sneaky manner to possibly include into his own case that gets under the skin. He didn't go up to a person and said, "Hey, can you help me in my debate?" which is kinda sketchy anyway, he is (of course, he is *accused* for doing this) basically using a thread to mislead people in order to trick them into helping him with his own selfish debate-y needs, mainly his debate with TheBomb. This is (if he *is* guilty of it) deceitful and dishonest, and should receive some sort of penalty for this (again, if he *is* guilty of it).

This whole thing is ridiculous, imabench, royal, and the rest of you are just trying to stir drama. PEACE BRETHREN. Though I guess MouthWash is guilty too for starting this thread.

I, for one, don't have opinion, drama-wise.
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9/2/2012 8:07:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 7:54:36 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/2/2012 7:45:47 PM, TUF wrote:
Okay, even if MouthWash did do this, how is it cheating?

Its considered cheating because he would be using arguments other people were giving him to use in the debate.

He didn't. Also getting ideas from other users isn't wrong even if he was. Did he copy and paste any of them directly?

Here's a hypothetical. Say I have no opinion on an issue. Then I read an article about gun control, and I suddenly am pro gun control based on the article. Am I cheating because I got all of my argument ideas from reading another source, even if I didn't copy and paste them? So what if his arguments were inspired by other users.

Also why does it matter?

Because people on DDO hate cheating, did you see what people did to YYW for using some kind of hack to increase his character count? (it was scary)

Its not cheating. And the glitch being immoral is also arguable.

He didn't actually use any of the arguments given, all his arguments were his own.

In which debate? in his debate against THEBOMB he didnt give arguments at all he threw a sh*t fit before he posted anything.

Then why are you complaining about him "cheating" If you admit he didn't actually cheat?

Also what's wrong with getting ideas from other members in the first place?

The controversy is whether or not the forum was made after the debate was made because if the forum was made after the debate it could be assumed that he is using the thread to farm for arguments.

So? What's wrong with getting inspired ideas from the debate community? The debate community here has changed most of my views. So does that mean that every debate I have been in on this site, is a cheated debate, because my opinionss were formed off of other members?

Forum taking one side of an argument + forum created the same day taking the other side of the same argument leads people to think that sir MW was up to no good.

How is this no good? Did he copy and paste anything? No? Then wtf is the issue?!

And even if you did have proof, so what?

People take cheating seriously around here :P

Explain in detail how getting ideas from other members is cheating.

This whole thing is ridiculous, imabench, royal, and the rest of you are just trying to stir drama.

1) Cheating is a serious thing on here, look at any debate where someone was caught plagarizing and you see what I mean

He didn't plagarize.

2) If I wanted to start drama I would go and poke Scottydouglas with a stick or make a screwy debate (Like Batman would beat God in a fight)

Or you would come here, and start accusing someone of cheating over nothing. Though I do agree that MW is also responsible for the drama for starting this thread.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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9/2/2012 8:11:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 7:59:36 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 9/2/2012 7:45:47 PM, TUF wrote:
Okay, even if MouthWash did do this, how is it cheating? Also why does it matter? He didn't actually use any of the arguments given, all his arguments were his own. Also what's wrong with getting ideas from other members in the first place? I don't know whether he did this for his debate specifically, but I just like all of you have no proof that he did this. And even if you did have proof, so what?

While he may not have used any of the arguments given (which I cannot confirm nor deny, since I haven't read the debate), it's the outsourcing of mental power to others and using their arguments in a sneaky manner to possibly include into his own case that gets under the skin.

If I form my opinion of something, off of something you said in the forums, and want to start a debate based on the opinions you shared with me, is it really cheating if I am using arguments that were inspired by another member? I mean I understand if he plagarized, but he didn't even do that.

He didn't go up to a person and said, "Hey, can you help me in my debate?" which is kinda sketchy anyway, he is (of course, he is *accused* for doing this) basically using a thread to mislead people in order to trick them into helping him with his own selfish debate-y needs, mainly his debate with TheBomb.

You admit you have no proof that this was his motive. Anyways, I still don't see what is wrong with getting the consensus idea of what peoples opinions are on the subject, before starting a debate about it.

This is (if he *is* guilty of it) deceitful and dishonest, and should receive some sort of penalty for this (again, if he *is* guilty of it).

There is no proof, just speculation. And nobody can give me a valid argument as to why this is so dishonest and decietful. You all are looking to start drama. If you want to, then don't be surprised that I am here to defend someone of this bull crap.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
BlackVoid
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9/2/2012 8:30:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why are people posting in this thread? If MW really wanted to make a point that he didn't make the thread to gain arguments, he would have PM'd the people who thought so privately. The fact then that this is a public thread where 90% of the users who see this topic didnt accuse him of anything, means that he's just attention whoring again. Which makes responding pointless.

I dont even think that he made the dropping out thread just to get arguments, but c'mon people.
imabench
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9/2/2012 8:37:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 8:07:11 PM, TUF wrote:
At 9/2/2012 7:54:36 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/2/2012 7:45:47 PM, TUF wrote:
Okay, even if MouthWash did do this, how is it cheating?

Its considered cheating because he would be using arguments other people were giving him to use in the debate.

He didn't. Also getting ideas from other users isn't wrong even if he was. Did he copy and paste any of them directly?

The controversy was brought into light before he could post his argument (people found the thread and the debate before it was in its second round)

Here's a hypothetical. Say I have no opinion on an issue. Then I read an article about gun control, and I suddenly am pro gun control based on the article. Am I cheating because I got all of my argument ideas from reading another source, even if I didn't copy and paste them?

You didnt make a debate and take arguments straight from the site so that doesnt count as cheating. If you made a debate and copy pasted the article, then its cheating but the type of cheating in question here is a different form.

So what if his arguments were inspired by other users.

Its unethical and considered cheating if during a debate you ask other users for arguments rather then be responsible and look for them yourself like everyone is supposed to.

Also why does it matter?

Because people on DDO hate cheating, did you see what people did to YYW for using some kind of hack to increase his character count? (it was scary)

Its not cheating. And the glitch being immoral is also arguable.

DDO pretty much decided that by how they voted on that debate, it was almost overwhelmingly against YYW for illegally increasing his character limit during the debate. I also think that Airmax and Nate from Juggle himself denounced artificially bypassing the character limit.

He didn't actually use any of the arguments given, all his arguments were his own.

In which debate? in his debate against THEBOMB he didnt give arguments at all he threw a sh*t fit before he posted anything.

Then why are you complaining about him "cheating" If you admit he didn't actually cheat?

The controversy was brought to light before he could post his arguments so it came off looking like he was caught in the act before he posted his argument.

Also what's wrong with getting ideas from other members in the first place?

The controversy is whether or not the forum was made after the debate was made because if the forum was made after the debate it could be assumed that he is using the thread to farm for arguments.

So? What's wrong with getting inspired ideas from the debate community?

Its considered a d*ck move to do that during a debate...

The debate community here has changed most of my views. So does that mean that every debate I have been in on this site, is a cheated debate, because my opinionss were formed off of other members?

Jesus christ, If you made a debate and THEN started asking the DDO community for their arguments while the debate was still ongoing, THEN its considered cheating. Anything outside that and its a different argument...

Forum taking one side of an argument + forum created the same day taking the other side of the same argument leads people to think that sir MW was up to no good.

How is this no good? Did he copy and paste anything? No? Then wtf is the issue?!

The issue is that it looks like he was caught before he could use any possible arguments in the debate, and since he reacted so aggressively it led some people to think they were right.

And even if you did have proof, so what?

People take cheating seriously around here :P

Explain in detail how getting ideas from other members is cheating.

Im going to strangle a baby puppy to death if I have to explain to you one more time that getting ideas from other members for a debate WHILE THE DEBATE IS ONGOING IS WHAT IS CONSIDERED CHEATING NOT GETTING INFORMATION FROM DDO AT ANY GIVEN TIME

This whole thing is ridiculous, imabench, royal, and the rest of you are just trying to stir drama.

1) Cheating is a serious thing on here, look at any debate where someone was caught plagarizing and you see what I mean

He didn't plagarize.

I know that, but due to the unfortunate timing of when the debate started and when the forum was started (before arguments could be presented) makes this have so much controversy

2) If I wanted to start drama I would go and poke Scottydouglas with a stick or make a screwy debate (Like Batman would beat God in a fight)

Or you would come here, and start accusing someone of cheating over nothing. Though I do agree that MW is also responsible for the drama for starting this thread.

1 - I did not make the first accusation that he was cheating
2 - I only gave quotes that showed how MW could have used that thread for arguments in his debate against the bomb
3 - I was not the first person to come here and make said accusations
4 - Imabench
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
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UnStupendousMan
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9/2/2012 8:45:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 8:11:32 PM, TUF wrote:
At 9/2/2012 7:59:36 PM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 9/2/2012 7:45:47 PM, TUF wrote:
Okay, even if MouthWash did do this, how is it cheating? Also why does it matter? He didn't actually use any of the arguments given, all his arguments were his own. Also what's wrong with getting ideas from other members in the first place? I don't know whether he did this for his debate specifically, but I just like all of you have no proof that he did this. And even if you did have proof, so what?

While he may not have used any of the arguments given (which I cannot confirm nor deny, since I haven't read the debate), it's the outsourcing of mental power to others and using their arguments in a sneaky manner to possibly include into his own case that gets under the skin.

If I form my opinion of something, off of something you said in the forums, and want to start a debate based on the opinions you shared with me, is it really cheating if I am using arguments that were inspired by another member? I mean I understand if he plagarized, but he didn't even do that.

It's more than that, TUF. He created something that could be used as part of something else that would be useful to him, but we had no idea that he was doing it. It's a difference in intent from what you have proposed. He could take arguments directly out of our collective mouth; it was not like he was inspired by it. If he was in any way, shape, or form inspired by his thread, then that thread would have been older than his debate, which it clearly isn't. ( http://www.debate.org... , http://www.debate.org... )

To create an analogy, it's like creating a debate with the resolution being "The Kalam Cosmological Argument is unsound," (or whatever) and then creating a thread defending the KCA (or whatever). That is not right.

He didn't go up to a person and said, "Hey, can you help me in my debate?" which is kinda sketchy anyway, he is (of course, he is *accused* for doing this) basically using a thread to mislead people in order to trick them into helping him with his own selfish debate-y needs, mainly his debate with TheBomb.

You admit you have no proof that this was his motive. Anyways, I still don't see what is wrong with getting the consensus idea of what peoples opinions are on the subject, before starting a debate about it.

I have no conclusive evidence that I can touch, but I do have circumstantial evidence, mainly the fact that created the thread TWO DAYS after he started his debate. Also, because I only have circumstantial evidence, I can only say that he is really fishy. In addition, it's not gauging opinions, it's taking ideas.

This is (if he *is* guilty of it) deceitful and dishonest, and should receive some sort of penalty for this (again, if he *is* guilty of it).

There is no proof, just speculation. And nobody can give me a valid argument as to why this is so dishonest and decietful. You all are looking to start drama. If you want to, then don't be surprised that I am here to defend someone of this bull crap.

Circumstantial evidence, not just speculation. We have both the debate and the thread, where MouthWash is on both sides of the coin (attacking dropping out on one front and defending it on another). If a person did the action which he is accused of doing, that person would have baited the community into unwillingly helping him in a debate. Which, at least to me, is wrong at least on the plagerism (can't spell) front.

Also, while I may be adding a little bit to the drama, I'm trying at least to keep a level head and not to flame-war and I am not using this as an opportunity to bask myself in attention. I cannot say the same thing with everyone else, though.
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9/2/2012 10:02:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 7:37:03 PM, imabench wrote:
Every single bit of evidence here is ridiculous horseshit. People seem to actually like the idea of me cheating. Now I expect that from royalpaladin, but I think the reason so many believe this incessant insanity is because it's like an entertaining "drama" to them. Pretty much like the WriterDave episode.

You do realize that over the months there have been people who start debates and then after the debate starts they use forums or similar debates just to take arguments from them to use in their own debates. Its been used on me a few times too. Whats insane about your case is that this kind of thing is usually a tactic only used by morons or trolls whereas you have been around for sometime now and actually have made a name for yourself.

And that doesn't make you feel like something's missing here?

I ask you to explain these, imabench-

I LOVE 20 QUESTIONS :D

1. ConservativePolitico had a debate on how useful college was. Couldn't I have taken statistics from there?

Easily.

That's right. I didn't need to create a topic to get those.

2. Isn't it kind of fucking stupid to try to get arguments for a debate- on the same exact website where people can see the debate?

Yeah, and thats why people are losing their minds that you would get caught up in something like this.

What's more probable- that I'm using DDO to get advice or am the most incompetent cheater in history?

3. I am not interested in arguing in favor of school. I've previously made my position clear [http://www.debate.org...].

Believe me, im well aware.

That's right. So why would I WANT to argue in favor of school other than to get information?

There was no point in making this debate other than to gain advice, and it makes contextual sense that I simply wanted someone to make a case against school. That's why I made it so that Con should go first. It was my way of doing quick research.

If you are telling the truth that you used the forums to debate and used the debate to gain information, you have to understand that is the exact opposite of how things work on DDO. People usually use debates to debate and use forums to gather information, very very rarely is it used the other way around and if they are done at the same time it can resemble the signs of cheating on a debate by using the forums to gather intelligence

*facepalm*

I'm talking about intention. It was my intention to research the topic quickly and easily for my own personal use. The debate was a means to that end. I was going to concede as soon as someone provided an argument.

4. I've already asked this question on Mises.org: [http://mises.org...]. Notice I made that thread BEFORE I even started the debate, which essentially proves I was researching the topic beforehand.

Nobody is talking about that forum, they are talking about the OTHEr forum you made here on DDO on the same day the debate started.

The forum was established on 8/31 at 5:47,
the debate was established on 8/31 but it doesnt show the time so you cant prove it was made before the forum.

Maybe airmax or nate can check. I'll PM them.

And that is what instantly destroys all of the BS you keep spouting. Since making a thread BEFORE doing the debate would simply count as researching, couldn't I have simply done that in the first place?

Yes but heres the thing, whether it was made before or after the debate you can still use information given to you from the forum to use in the debate which is why people are accusing you of cheating.

No. If I made a topic about economics and asked people for statistics or whatnot in preparation for a debate, it counts as research. They would then stop giving them as soon as the debate began. I really should have ended the debate before I made he thread, and I got caught up in it and put a low priority to it. Still, I don't understand why that proves anything by itself.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
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9/2/2012 10:06:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 8:37:44 PM, imabench wrote:
DDO pretty much decided that by how they voted on that debate, it was almost overwhelmingly against YYW for illegally increasing his character limit during the debate. I also think that Airmax and Nate from Juggle himself denounced artificially bypassing the character limit.

Wait, what debate was this?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
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9/2/2012 10:07:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
And you haven't even attempted to respond to my critique of the "arguments" I supposedly could have used. I claim victory.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
imabench
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9/2/2012 10:08:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 10:06:08 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 8:37:44 PM, imabench wrote:
DDO pretty much decided that by how they voted on that debate, it was almost overwhelmingly against YYW for illegally increasing his character limit during the debate. I also think that Airmax and Nate from Juggle himself denounced artificially bypassing the character limit.

Wait, what debate was this?

you know that one that YYW had with Danielle about homosexuality and raising kids? it was that one
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
imabench
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9/2/2012 10:10:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 10:02:52 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/2/2012 7:37:03 PM, imabench wrote:

If you are telling the truth that you used the forums to debate and used the debate to gain information, you have to understand that is the exact opposite of how things work on DDO. People usually use debates to debate and use forums to gather information, very very rarely is it used the other way around and if they are done at the same time it can resemble the signs of cheating on a debate by using the forums to gather intelligence

*facepalm*

I'm talking about intention. It was my intention to research the topic quickly and easily for my own personal use. The debate was a means to that end. I was going to concede as soon as someone provided an argument.

Ok then. I pronounce thee not a cheater.... Just someone with awkward timing.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015