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I refuse to debate...

medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/3/2012 12:48:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

Whatever the limit is, your opponent will force you into that limit. If they can use 8,000 characters to make you run out of your 8,000. Then they can use 16,000 to make you max out your 16,000 or whatever the limit is.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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9/3/2012 12:49:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:48:05 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

Whatever the limit is, your opponent will force you into that limit. If they can use 8,000 characters to make you run out of your 8,000. Then they can use 16,000 to make you max out your 16,000 or whatever the limit is.

Beat me to it.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/3/2012 12:58:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:48:05 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

Whatever the limit is, your opponent will force you into that limit. If they can use 8,000 characters to make you run out of your 8,000. Then they can use 16,000 to make you max out your 16,000 or whatever the limit is.

A lot of times though, it isn't necessarily the person doing it intentionally. It's the combination of having to answer their arguments while trying to present and explain your own.

Those that do it intentionally as a tactic, I feel are lazy, and prolly won't want to use the option for higher amount of character space. I'm assuming here that if it were changed, it would be as an option. Maybe 8k and 15k as the 2 options.
imabench
Posts: 21,204
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9/3/2012 1:05:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

but youve only debated 10 times......
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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9/3/2012 1:07:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:58:38 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:48:05 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

Whatever the limit is, your opponent will force you into that limit. If they can use 8,000 characters to make you run out of your 8,000. Then they can use 16,000 to make you max out your 16,000 or whatever the limit is.

A lot of times though, it isn't necessarily the person doing it intentionally. It's the combination of having to answer their arguments while trying to present and explain your own.

Those that do it intentionally as a tactic, I feel are lazy, and prolly won't want to use the option for higher amount of character space. I'm assuming here that if it were changed, it would be as an option. Maybe 8k and 15k as the 2 options.

Economy is a prerogative a debater has and should cherish. Sometimes it's unnecessary to explore further dimensions where only the most pertinent (albeit with some explanations) ones can be stated and shared alongside your contentions.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
imabench
Posts: 21,204
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9/3/2012 1:10:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 1:07:53 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:58:38 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:48:05 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

Whatever the limit is, your opponent will force you into that limit. If they can use 8,000 characters to make you run out of your 8,000. Then they can use 16,000 to make you max out your 16,000 or whatever the limit is.

A lot of times though, it isn't necessarily the person doing it intentionally. It's the combination of having to answer their arguments while trying to present and explain your own.

Those that do it intentionally as a tactic, I feel are lazy, and prolly won't want to use the option for higher amount of character space. I'm assuming here that if it were changed, it would be as an option. Maybe 8k and 15k as the 2 options.

Economy is a prerogative a debater has and should cherish. Sometimes it's unnecessary to explore further dimensions where only the most pertinent (albeit with some explanations) ones can be stated and shared alongside your contentions.

^^^^ This x 10,000.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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9/3/2012 1:12:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:58:38 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:48:05 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

Whatever the limit is, your opponent will force you into that limit. If they can use 8,000 characters to make you run out of your 8,000. Then they can use 16,000 to make you max out your 16,000 or whatever the limit is.

A lot of times though, it isn't necessarily the person doing it intentionally. It's the combination of having to answer their arguments while trying to present and explain your own.

Those that do it intentionally as a tactic, I feel are lazy, and prolly won't want to use the option for higher amount of character space. I'm assuming here that if it were changed, it would be as an option. Maybe 8k and 15k as the 2 options.

curious in which debates have been used?
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
imabench
Posts: 21,204
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9/3/2012 1:17:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
A wise person said this in his high school sex education class:

"If you dont have sex or masturbate for a really really long time, and then you use it again, it can feel like your using it for the first time again"

That man was later arrested for rape but the point is medic if you do a few debates where you put yourself at a limit of 4,000 characters per round, and you do it for a really long time, then when you do a debate that has a 8,000 character limit, it is the greatest feeling in the world.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/3/2012 1:19:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 1:17:35 AM, imabench wrote:
A wise person said this in his high school sex education class:

"If you dont have sex or masturbate for a really really long time, and then you use it again, it can feel like your using it for the first time again"

That man was later arrested for rape but the point is medic if you do a few debates where you put yourself at a limit of 4,000 characters per round, and you do it for a really long time, then when you do a debate that has a 8,000 character limit, it is the greatest feeling in the world.

It's like raping your opponent.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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9/3/2012 1:27:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 1:07:53 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:58:38 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:48:05 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

Whatever the limit is, your opponent will force you into that limit. If they can use 8,000 characters to make you run out of your 8,000. Then they can use 16,000 to make you max out your 16,000 or whatever the limit is.

A lot of times though, it isn't necessarily the person doing it intentionally. It's the combination of having to answer their arguments while trying to present and explain your own.

Those that do it intentionally as a tactic, I feel are lazy, and prolly won't want to use the option for higher amount of character space. I'm assuming here that if it were changed, it would be as an option. Maybe 8k and 15k as the 2 options.

Economy is a prerogative a debater has and should cherish. Sometimes it's unnecessary to explore further dimensions where only the most pertinent (albeit with some explanations) ones can be stated and shared alongside your contentions.

If you feel the topic is too complex, you can--as an instigator, reduce it to a far more specific substance to debate, and so forth, and work at maintaining control of the debate to prevent it from spiraling out of control. This includes imposing restrictions on the definitions or clarifying the resolution, for example, to prevent it from opening door to an excessively wide spectrum of opportunities. =)
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
imabench
Posts: 21,204
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9/3/2012 1:28:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 1:19:23 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/3/2012 1:17:35 AM, imabench wrote:
A wise person said this in his high school sex education class:

"If you dont have sex or masturbate for a really really long time, and then you use it again, it can feel like your using it for the first time again"

That man was later arrested for rape but the point is medic if you do a few debates where you put yourself at a limit of 4,000 characters per round, and you do it for a really long time, then when you do a debate that has a 8,000 character limit, it is the greatest feeling in the world.

It's like raping your opponent.

Exactly!!!

Here medic think of it this way to.

Debates on DDO are like Sex when youre a woman. They can go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and you wouldnt feel any kind of a climax,

it can be really short and too the point so that you can go through the motions and get a cheap high off of it,

or it could be just the right amount where everything works up to a climax and then at the end everyone is getting brains blown onto the ceilings from pleasure and voters agree on how well you did.

Which would you pick?
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/3/2012 2:56:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 1:05:26 AM, imabench wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

but youve only debated 10 times......

Quit being such a stickler for details...lol

This is why there's only 10. Trying to get everything into 8000 characters is so frustrating. That's why I prefer the forums.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/3/2012 3:01:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 1:07:53 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:58:38 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:48:05 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

Whatever the limit is, your opponent will force you into that limit. If they can use 8,000 characters to make you run out of your 8,000. Then they can use 16,000 to make you max out your 16,000 or whatever the limit is.

A lot of times though, it isn't necessarily the person doing it intentionally. It's the combination of having to answer their arguments while trying to present and explain your own.

Those that do it intentionally as a tactic, I feel are lazy, and prolly won't want to use the option for higher amount of character space. I'm assuming here that if it were changed, it would be as an option. Maybe 8k and 15k as the 2 options.

Economy is a prerogative a debater has and should cherish. Sometimes it's unnecessary to explore further dimensions where only the most pertinent (albeit with some explanations) ones can be stated and shared alongside your contentions.

You know how verbose I can be, especially when I'm focused in on one issue. I sometimes think there's a thing called Charleslb Syndrome and that I'm ate up with it.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/3/2012 3:16:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 1:12:51 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:58:38 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:48:05 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

Whatever the limit is, your opponent will force you into that limit. If they can use 8,000 characters to make you run out of your 8,000. Then they can use 16,000 to make you max out your 16,000 or whatever the limit is.

A lot of times though, it isn't necessarily the person doing it intentionally. It's the combination of having to answer their arguments while trying to present and explain your own.

Those that do it intentionally as a tactic, I feel are lazy, and prolly won't want to use the option for higher amount of character space. I'm assuming here that if it were changed, it would be as an option. Maybe 8k and 15k as the 2 options.

curious in which debates have been used?

I did forfeit our debate in frustration. I couldn't answer all your points in one round and when I tried to address them the following round you called foul on me. That just seems like trying to win on a technicality, and I don't play that way. If I can't address all your points, and make my own case then I don't have a chance of winning so why waste our time.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/3/2012 3:24:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 1:17:35 AM, imabench wrote:
A wise person said this in his high school sex education class:

"If you dont have sex or masturbate for a really really long time, and then you use it again, it can feel like your using it for the first time again"

That man was later arrested for rape but the point is medic if you do a few debates where you put yourself at a limit of 4,000 characters per round, and you do it for a really long time, then when you do a debate that has a 8,000 character limit, it is the greatest feeling in the world.

lol

I've had a few debates where the topic wasn't complex and I had no trouble. But I prefer debating more complex topics like religion. With some subjects, I don't think I could even begin to present a case with 4000 characters. Maybe I'm just not meant to hang with the big dogs of the debate world.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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9/3/2012 3:27:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
You just need to do narrower, more focused topics. Then you can simply hold your opponent to that when they try to go broader. That way, they are wasting space, not you.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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9/3/2012 3:30:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 1:28:53 AM, imabench wrote:
At 9/3/2012 1:19:23 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/3/2012 1:17:35 AM, imabench wrote:
A wise person said this in his high school sex education class:

"If you dont have sex or masturbate for a really really long time, and then you use it again, it can feel like your using it for the first time again"

That man was later arrested for rape but the point is medic if you do a few debates where you put yourself at a limit of 4,000 characters per round, and you do it for a really long time, then when you do a debate that has a 8,000 character limit, it is the greatest feeling in the world.

It's like raping your opponent.

Exactly!!!

Here medic think of it this way to.

Debates on DDO are like Sex when youre a woman. They can go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and you wouldnt feel any kind of a climax,

it can be really short and too the point so that you can go through the motions and get a cheap high off of it,

or it could be just the right amount where everything works up to a climax and then at the end everyone is getting brains blown onto the ceilings from pleasure and voters agree on how well you did.




Which would you pick?

Well that's a no brainer. Problem is that I seem to be about a half inch short of being able to hit that g-spot.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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9/3/2012 4:08:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 2:56:01 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/3/2012 1:05:26 AM, imabench wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

but youve only debated 10 times......

Quit being such a stickler for details...lol

This is why there's only 10. Trying to get everything into 8000 characters is so frustrating. That's why I prefer the forums.

Learn to compress your thoughts. You may think that 8,000 characters isn't enough, but you should realize that if both debaters use all of their 8,000 characters every round it significantly reduces the number of people that are going to read and vote on your debate. Increasing the characters is only going to accentuate this problem while not really solving any others.

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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9/3/2012 4:36:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:58:38 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:48:05 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

Whatever the limit is, your opponent will force you into that limit. If they can use 8,000 characters to make you run out of your 8,000. Then they can use 16,000 to make you max out your 16,000 or whatever the limit is.

A lot of times though, it isn't necessarily the person doing it intentionally. It's the combination of having to answer their arguments while trying to present and explain your own.

Those that do it intentionally as a tactic, I feel are lazy, and prolly won't want to use the option for higher amount of character space. I'm assuming here that if it were changed, it would be as an option. Maybe 8k and 15k as the 2 options.

Most of my opening speeches are 8000 characters, hopefully five of my contentions. Most of my rebuttals are 3-5000 characters, which still goes over my contentions and my opponent's.

I honestly don't see how using more will make any difference. Give me fifteen thousand and I'd expect 10+ contentions of my own to be in the debate. Some will then start to overlap, but debates are like that when you get to silly lengths. A 15k character speech is 3000 words roughly (if not more). That is either ten to fifteen minutes of spreading (which makes your sentences incomprehensible) or almost an hour of rambling. If you're going on for an hour, you can put that into a chapter of a book, and the debate itself could be published, if it weren't for the fact that the quality will be horrible for most do it on the spot and not review it (especially 3000 words worth) three or four times over. And if it weren't for the fact no-one would read the debate: the total wordcount would be roughly 18,000 words, which is a small book or novella. No, I don't see anyone reading that. All the 15,000 word limit does is make the debate's votes 99% people who just read the resolution and maybe the first argument round.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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9/3/2012 8:20:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 12:44:54 AM, medic0506 wrote:
I will not do any more debates until we get more character space. Some topics are just too complex, and the better debaters have figured out how to make opponents use up all their space arguing what they want them to. You can't ignore it or you're assumed to have conceded the point.

I love to debate, but when you can't explain your argument, or get all your points in, the reader isn't getting your best.

I'm going on strike until DDO exorcizes this evil demon from our sacred ground.

YOU ARE MY CHAMPION.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/3/2012 1:30:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't do much debating here in the first place. I suppose mostly because I'm not very good at it while others here have previous experience from school and such(debate clubs, as far as I know don't exist in Canadian schools).