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How to vote on a forfeited debate?

MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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9/9/2012 1:32:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I always assumed that the reason we take all seven points from someone if they forfeit is because they didn't respond and therefore concede. There are exceptions to this (a lot of people specifically ask readers to vote based upon what has already been said), but those only prove the rule.

Now if someone concedes in the MIDDLE of the debate, but later posts his arguments, then we only deduct conduct. But Wallstreet apparently disagrees with me, so I'm really not sure what to think now. Can I have some opinions?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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9/9/2012 1:56:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
One forfeit should only result in loss of the conduct point. Having one less round to argue, losing the conduct point and essentially making the voters less likely to vote for you is enough punishment for one forfeit.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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9/9/2012 2:35:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 1:56:25 PM, phantom wrote:
One forfeit should only result in loss of the conduct point. Having one less round to argue, losing the conduct point and essentially making the voters less likely to vote for you is enough punishment for one forfeit.
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MouthWash
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9/9/2012 2:49:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 1:56:25 PM, phantom wrote:
One forfeit should only result in loss of the conduct point. Having one less round to argue, losing the conduct point and essentially making the voters less likely to vote for you is enough punishment for one forfeit.

That's an opinion. But what do people generally do?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
imabench
Posts: 21,229
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9/9/2012 2:53:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 2:35:13 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 9/9/2012 1:56:25 PM, phantom wrote:
One forfeit should only result in loss of the conduct point. Having one less round to argue, losing the conduct point and essentially making the voters less likely to vote for you is enough punishment for one forfeit.
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Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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9/9/2012 3:37:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 2:49:23 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/9/2012 1:56:25 PM, phantom wrote:
One forfeit should only result in loss of the conduct point. Having one less round to argue, losing the conduct point and essentially making the voters less likely to vote for you is enough punishment for one forfeit.

That's an opinion. But what do people generally do?

No it is not...nothing in that statement expresses an opinion or unfounded belief, but rather a guideline. Generally, one forfeits only result in the loss of conduct since it topples the structure of the debate and results in one less round; multiple forfeits further the damage to the debater (who forfeits) and inhibits his performance remarkably, though one can always say that since it is asked for reliable arguments--then you cannot reward any member arguments if there cannot be any comparison made with an absolute dearth of arguments on one side.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
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9/9/2012 3:41:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 3:37:52 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/9/2012 2:49:23 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/9/2012 1:56:25 PM, phantom wrote:
One forfeit should only result in loss of the conduct point. Having one less round to argue, losing the conduct point and essentially making the voters less likely to vote for you is enough punishment for one forfeit.

That's an opinion. But what do people generally do?

No it is not...nothing in that statement expresses an opinion or unfounded belief, but rather a guideline. Generally, one forfeits only result in the loss of conduct since it topples the structure of the debate and results in one less round; multiple forfeits further the damage to the debater (who forfeits) and inhibits his performance remarkably, though one can always say that since it is asked for reliable arguments--then you cannot reward any member arguments if there cannot be any comparison made with an absolute dearth of arguments on one side.

In the past, voters might have given points for arguments to the remaining side, but it appears the new reasoning--which I adopted--hinges on the comparison intrinsic in determining which side is more reliable. Conduct however--and obviously--is still rewarded to the most punctual side in the debate, as it has been in the past.

Now, I cannot explain how this has changed, but it does seem that voting trends have changed, apparently, in regards to specific points and compartments.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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9/9/2012 4:18:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've been known to vote conduct for the guy who didn't forfeit, and persuasion for the guy who did forfeit. I got some criticism for it, but, if somebody loses an argument even though his opponent forfeited, I think you have to vote against him.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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9/9/2012 4:39:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
When I made a thread about this I was basically slaughtered. Now it seems every one agrees with me. =/
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Man-is-good
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9/9/2012 4:56:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 4:39:50 PM, phantom wrote:
When I made a thread about this I was basically slaughtered. Now it seems every one agrees with me. =/

I guess you didn't know how influential you were on some of the newer voters, lol...
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
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9/9/2012 5:13:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
MouthWash, I'm assuming you're referring/basing your question on this debate, right??

http://www.debate.org...
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
MouthWash
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9/9/2012 5:16:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 5:13:00 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
MouthWash, I'm assuming you're referring/basing your question on this debate, right??

http://www.debate.org...

How could you possibly have guessed?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Man-is-good
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9/9/2012 5:23:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 5:16:00 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/9/2012 5:13:00 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
MouthWash, I'm assuming you're referring/basing your question on this debate, right??

http://www.debate.org...

How could you possibly have guessed?

" I guess forfeits are a complicated issue..."--Your RFD---->questions about how to deal with a forfeited debate.

You also mentioned Wallstreetatheist in your opening post and seemed to have a bit of a conflict with THEBOMB who must have countered your vote, leading you to create this thread.

Just a hunch.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
MouthWash
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9/10/2012 1:02:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 5:23:46 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/9/2012 5:16:00 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/9/2012 5:13:00 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
MouthWash, I'm assuming you're referring/basing your question on this debate, right??

http://www.debate.org...

How could you possibly have guessed?

" I guess forfeits are a complicated issue..."--Your RFD---->questions about how to deal with a forfeited debate.

You also mentioned Wallstreetatheist in your opening post and seemed to have a bit of a conflict with THEBOMB who must have countered your vote, leading you to create this thread.

Just a hunch.

That was sarcasm.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Yep
Posts: 12
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9/10/2012 5:41:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/9/2012 2:49:23 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/9/2012 1:56:25 PM, phantom wrote:
One forfeit should only result in loss of the conduct point. Having one less round to argue, losing the conduct point and essentially making the voters less likely to vote for you is enough punishment for one forfeit.

That's an opinion. But what do people generally do?

Generally, the experienced debaters just give conduct, the novices and those who are new to DDO often give either all 7 points or arguments+conduct which they shouldn't do.
Man-is-good
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9/11/2012 9:39:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/10/2012 1:02:40 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/9/2012 5:23:46 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 9/9/2012 5:16:00 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/9/2012 5:13:00 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
MouthWash, I'm assuming you're referring/basing your question on this debate, right??

http://www.debate.org...

How could you possibly have guessed?

" I guess forfeits are a complicated issue..."--Your RFD---->questions about how to deal with a forfeited debate.

You also mentioned Wallstreetatheist in your opening post and seemed to have a bit of a conflict with THEBOMB who must have countered your vote, leading you to create this thread.

Just a hunch.

That was sarcasm.

Ah, okay. Thank you for using that in quite an inappropriate place or time, lol.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
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9/11/2012 9:45:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 9:42:11 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
Just saying, that in that debate, they both had equal forfeits...

And that voters should be focusing instead on the two's arguments, compared side by side...or any other avenue of judgement still left to scrutiny.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau