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Thought Experiment - Changing the World

Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/1/2012 12:45:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
If you were given the opportunity tell every single person on the planet three sentences that, accepted as unquestionable fact by everyone, would lead to vast improvements, what would the sentences be?

What do you think some of the short-term and long-term consequences of the acceptance would be?
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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10/1/2012 1:15:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Aryan master race. Burn the infidels. War on America.

This was my original idea and I did not at all steal it from ChristianM from the DDO page.
Open borders debate:
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AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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10/1/2012 3:35:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. You must obey me.
2. You must obey me.
3. You must obey me.

This would lead to a golden age of me ruling the world.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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10/1/2012 4:29:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
There ain't no party.
Like an S Club party.
You gotta get down on Friday.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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10/1/2012 8:23:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
C'mon, we have a website full of ideologues, I know we can do better than this!
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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10/1/2012 8:48:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Amusing:

1. War is peace.
2. Freedom is slavery
3. Ignorance is strength

Real:

1. Gods probably don't exist.
2. You have a responsibility to provide for yourself via an individualistic ideology.
3. Government serve to protect and enforce basic rights and protections.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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10/1/2012 9:17:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 8:35:06 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
1. Christianity is true
2. Ecumenism is incredibly healthy and important
3. Violence is not an option

As for the second aspect of this thought experiment, let me briefly explain why I think this would lead to improvements and what the immediate and long term ramifications might be. First, I think that an entire group united under a single, unquestionable ideology would lead to far less dissension, grumbling and political unrest. I chose Christianity to represent this ideology because I also value truth, and, as it happens, I believe very strongly that Christianity is true. Disagreement, however, is part of being human. Thus, as my second unquestionable dictum, I chose ecumenism, because if we learn to expect, respect and value these differences we have even within our united ideology, there will be far less room for the incumbent dangers of disunity. Lastly, for safe measures, I included the dictum that violence is not an option. If unity under a single ideology and the embrace of individual differences is not enough to prevent malevolence and hatred and the decadence of a human heart bent towards the rapine of the helpless, then hopefully the explicit and unquestionable belief that violence is never an option will.

I think world peace would be the short term ramification and a global, prosperous community wherein all are well fed and clothed and enjoy the love of one another is the long term ramification. It will be then that God can look again and say once more, "it is good."
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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10/1/2012 9:25:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 8:48:32 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Amusing:

1. War is peace.
2. Freedom is slavery
3. Ignorance is strength


Gotta love 1984
Real:

1. Gods probably don't exist.
2. You have a responsibility to provide for yourself via an individualistic ideology.
3. Government serve to protect and enforce basic rights and protections.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
imabench
Posts: 21,211
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10/1/2012 9:50:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Funny:
1) These are not the droids you are looking for
2) F*ck the police
3) Women who give men blow jobs will become beautiful

Real:
1) School and Work shouldnt start until after 11PM
2) Justin Bieber, Rebecca Black, The Jonas Brothers, Nicki Minaj, and any other singer(s) most people hate arent talented at all
3) The only news anchors you can trust is Anderson Cooper, Brian Williams, Jon Stewart, and Stephen Colbert, everyone else is a nut.
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VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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10/1/2012 9:57:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That they were happy would be one of them probably. If you believe you're happy then you are happy.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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10/1/2012 9:59:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 8:48:32 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Amusing:

1. War is peace.
2. Freedom is slavery
3. Ignorance is strength

Real:

1. Gods probably don't exist.

Why would you want to completely diminish any hope and happiness for millions or billions of people? I'd think you'd be one of the most hated man if that happened.

2. You have a responsibility to provide for yourself via an individualistic ideology.
3. Government serve to protect and enforce basic rights and protections.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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10/1/2012 10:05:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 9:59:22 PM, phantom wrote:
Why would you want to completely diminish any hope and happiness for millions or billions of people?

I think just as many people feel anxiety from "struggling" with being less than Godly and "sinning" as garner any positive benefits.

also, those supposed positives may in truth be negatives, as they can blind someone to the benefit of effectual actions... Those benefits might be bought with sacrifices... like sacrifices in your relations with other people.. or sacrifices of other things you care about.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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10/1/2012 10:20:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 9:59:22 PM, phantom wrote:
Why would you want to completely diminish any hope and happiness for millions or billions of people?

Also, as to the Hope thing..

Oftentimes the "hope" it provides is fragile or unrealistic.

sure there's the Nihilistic kind which writes off making the most of Actual Existence... But you're Hopeful of getting a Much better 2nd life later... and with That kind of Hope it's never going to really get tested, as it can only be shown futile after you're dead (though the whole attitude makes it easy for you throw your life away which aint so nice)

There's also the more regular, everyday, hope people get from God... Like a mother who has a child in Intensive care in a hospital.
They may take solace in the idea that God is watching over their child, praying might make them feel like it'll all be ok.
If it is they may, as people often do, say "God was watching over you"

If things turn out bad than their situation's just gotten even worse than it was... Why did god allow this?? Now they have 2 crises at the same time.

I think it's best and, overall, most healthy to try to accept and deal with problems as they are.. w/o relying on such shaky hopes.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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10/1/2012 10:25:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 10:05:42 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 10/1/2012 9:59:22 PM, phantom wrote:
Why would you want to completely diminish any hope and happiness for millions or billions of people?

I think just as many people feel anxiety from "struggling" with being less than Godly and "sinning" as garner any positive benefits.

Just as many? I really disagree. The secularization trend of society has caused less and less people to care too much about how sinful they are. And for those who do, they still derive much hope from what their beliefs bring. Besides that, being sinless is an absurdly impossible achievement so I don't see why people should care much that they can't gain it. The anxiety it brings is minimal to the emptiness of meaninglessness.

I honestly cannot comprehend how people can find atheism uplifting. I was far far happier as a Christian (I believe in a God but not one that matters much). Sure it means we're not binded to some rule book or supreme deity, but if you believe you're going to spend the rest of eternity in happiness, you have hope. That is something I would never want to take away from people, especially those starving and suffering around the world who have no hope but their religious beliefs. I don't care if it's false. It still gives them something this life. Of course religion brings a lot of negative to the table but it still brings a lot of good too. For some people, all they have is their faith. If you take that away then they're suddenly empty and depressed.

also, those supposed positives may in truth be negatives, as they can blind someone to the benefit of effectual actions... Those benefits might be bought with sacrifices... like sacrifices in your relations with other people.. or sacrifices of other things you care about.

Yes but you have no time to be disappointed. You'll die content, thinking that all your sacrifices will be rewarded. That would be utterly false but you wouldn't have time to despair at all your meaningless toils (since you no longer exist) making them not meaningless at all. The rewards they bring are the psychological benefits of this life.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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10/1/2012 10:35:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 10:20:44 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 10/1/2012 9:59:22 PM, phantom wrote:
Why would you want to completely diminish any hope and happiness for millions or billions of people?

Also, as to the Hope thing..

Oftentimes the "hope" it provides is fragile or unrealistic.

sure there's the Nihilistic kind which writes off making the most of Actual Existence... But you're Hopeful of getting a Much better 2nd life later... and with That kind of Hope it's never going to really get tested, as it can only be shown futile after you're dead (though the whole attitude makes it easy for you throw your life away which aint so nice)

There's also the more regular, everyday, hope people get from God... Like a mother who has a child in Intensive care in a hospital.
They may take solace in the idea that God is watching over their child, praying might make them feel like it'll all be ok.
If it is they may, as people often do, say "God was watching over you"

If things turn out bad than their situation's just gotten even worse than it was... Why did god allow this?? Now they have 2 crises at the same time.

They still believe they'll see their child again. I think that's better than believing they'll never see them again. Though you could raise the point that the kid could be an unbeliever so then they think he's in hell (assuming traditional beliefs). For that I would agree with. If I still had my past beliefs I would believe my Grandad was in hell, a truly dreadful thought. Now I just believe he's ceased to exist which is still sad but not nearly as loathsome as the former.


I think it's best and, overall, most healthy to try to accept and deal with problems as they are.. w/o relying on such shaky hopes.

Not every one has that much courage.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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10/1/2012 10:43:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Actually many people believe so strongly that the enormous implications of the sudden revelation would be absolutely psychologically devastating. After being around believers my whole life, and having been one, I can say that quite confidently.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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10/1/2012 10:45:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. "Consider your origin; you were not born to live like brutes, but to follow virtue and knowledge" in a way that does not inhibit your expression of yourself or your welfare.
2. An intellectual air should not be without substance, just as a belief not without restraint, a movement without a foundation, an ideology without a basis or without credence, etc...
3. Every man has a certain liberty to define whatever freedom is entrusted to him in his own purpose, though he should be wary of the repercussions of abusing whatever "freedom" is left, by time, in his hands.

)
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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10/1/2012 11:05:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 9:59:22 PM, phantom wrote:
At 10/1/2012 8:48:32 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Amusing:

1. War is peace.
2. Freedom is slavery
3. Ignorance is strength

Real:

1. Gods probably don't exist.

Why would you want to completely diminish any hope and happiness for millions or billions of people? I'd think you'd be one of the most hated man if that happened.

Hope is a fantasy. Hope doesn't mean anything if it's not based on something real.

2. You have a responsibility to provide for yourself via an individualistic ideology.
3. Government serve to protect and enforce basic rights and protections.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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10/1/2012 11:08:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Those who are psychologically dependent on religion to guide them through their lives are not capable of fitting into my individualistic utopia. If they cannot escape these grasps, then they will perish- leaving room for those who are capable of depending on themselves.

Boy, gotta love dat darwinism.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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10/1/2012 11:23:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 11:05:25 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 10/1/2012 9:59:22 PM, phantom wrote:
At 10/1/2012 8:48:32 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Amusing:

1. War is peace.
2. Freedom is slavery
3. Ignorance is strength

Real:

1. Gods probably don't exist.

Why would you want to completely diminish any hope and happiness for millions or billions of people? I'd think you'd be one of the most hated man if that happened.

Hope is a fantasy.

What's that supposed to mean?

Hope doesn't mean anything if it's not based on something real.

Yes it can. It can mean a lot. If you believe in a God and an afterlife you will the majority of times only derive a net-benefit. Do you realize the absolute psychological devastation such an abrupt revelation would cause to people who have always strongly believed? How could you want that? What good is making every one know the truth when it just makes everyone depressed? As Nietzsche says, "If you want to acheive peace of mind and happines, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search." The latter takes courage. I always fight to make religious people tolerant and respectful of others beliefs but hardly ever, if ever, to convert to complete apostasy.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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10/2/2012 7:37:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 11:23:01 PM, phantom wrote:
Yes it can. It can mean a lot. If you believe in a God and an afterlife you will the majority of times only derive a net-benefit.

I still disagree.

To the extent that they believe, they will constantly struggle...

and if they don't take it so seriously, then they may Hope for Godly rescue... but they also Doubt.
This creeping doubt is common and is both constantly worrisome for the person and indicative of the Fragility of that hope if things should go wrong.

Better to look at the world w/o fragile, rose-colored lenses... and take it in as it is.. accept it, and act as you would given reality. That is the way of finding contentment (which you were talkin bout in the other thread :)

Additionally, with the "struggling" bit: You CANNOT find contentment when you have to constantly keep what Naturally flows forth from you in Check. There's that common refrain: "everyone sins".
The Shame that it causes makes some people anxious.. but there are more terrible consequences.. That of Constantly stifling yourself, Cutting parts of yourself off, mutilating yourself to fit into the Cookie-cutter, inhuman, shape that God wants.

If someone has strong belief in god.. they'll feel it important to carry out his will.
His will often contradicts our own wills.
One example: Most people would like to have pre-marital sex. They enjoy relationships with others, and are attracted to people..
This causes anxiety for a believer.. and they can spend years either Truly struggling to keep it in their pants (and it's not funny :P, it's a very sad waste of a way to spend your life dogged by anxiety)..
Or years feeling shame for engaging in it which they can hardly stop themselves from doing so. I really do think that this is one of the worst common cases... but everyone that truly believes deals with it in some degree.

Also, Gay people who were raised to think in tune with what everyone else thinks god thinks have it real, real, bad.

So... between religion being bad for you, bad for your kids, and bad b/c of how Your being religious affects everyone else in society...

I'd rather see it disappear.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
baggins
Posts: 855
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10/2/2012 1:03:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Holy Quran 16:90

Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and liberality to kith and kin, and He forbids all shameful deeds, and injustice and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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10/2/2012 1:38:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/1/2012 11:23:01 PM, phantom wrote:
Yes it can. It can mean a lot. If you believe in a God and an afterlife you will the majority of times only derive a net-benefit. Do you realize the absolute psychological devastation such an abrupt revelation would cause to people who have always strongly believed? How could you want that? What good is making every one know the truth when it just makes everyone depressed? As Nietzsche says, "If you want to acheive peace of mind and happines, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search." The latter takes courage. I always fight to make religious people tolerant and respectful of others beliefs but hardly ever, if ever, to convert to complete apostasy.

Those who are dependent on a supernatural entity to keep them sane- as you are implying- are psychologically weak. It matters little what acheives peace of mind or comfort; they are all useless when it comes to truth, which is the ultimate reality.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/2/2012 1:49:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. Institutionalized aggression and coercion aren't necessary for establishing peace and order in society. (Anarchyz brah)
2. Be open to the idea that you might just be wrong about some things.
3. Leave Britney alone.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.