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The first Presidential Debate!

Ore_Ele
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10/27/2012 1:38:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ore_Ele

Thank you for taking the time to participate in this debate. We shall follow a simple format to help keep it organized and flowing. I will ask one of you a question. After you answer I will either ask a follow up question, or allow the other candidate the opportunity to comment in any way they see fit. After they comment you will get the last say to address their comment before we move to the next question.

Thank you again.

Ore_Ele

Airmax, since you are the incumbent, I shall ask you the first question.

What would be your primary objectives in a second term? And what steps would you take to succeed at them?

airmax1227

Thanks for holding this debate Ore_ele. I'd like to thank Spinko and wish him good luck.

airmax1227

I'd like to maintain much of the progress I have made in my first term, especially as it relates to Juggle's interaction with the the community. I'm quite fond of the way Juggle interacts with the membership by asking them directly for feedback on updates. I'm confident Juggle will continue to show such enthusiasm for updating the site and I will facilitate it to the best of my ability.

Without getting too much into specifics, I know Juggle has more updates planned and wants to improve the site in every way it can. What needs to continue to happen, as it has been happening over the past few months is Juggle continuing to reach out directly to the community to hear the feedback directly from members. Sometimes the President needs to suggest which updates need to be prioritized, but the membership never seems to shy away from making their opinions heard.

To see these updates occur regularly as they have been I will continue to work with Juggle on a daily basis and offer as much feedback as I can so the site continues to grow in a positive direction.

Ore_Ele

Social, would you care to comment?

Also, I should say before any issues come up. Please make all posts in a single message if possible. That way we don't think you are done when you are not.

socialpinko

No thanks. I'd like to wait to comment until we get more into specifics.

Ore_Ele

Social, we move on to the next question for you.

Most likely, regardless of the elections, moderation power will stay with Airmax. If you were to become president, this creates an additional separation of power (mod and president will be separated for the first time since we got a mod). How would you deal with this separation of power to keep things running and moving forward (especially when it comes to dealing with trolls and spammers)?

socialpinko

There are three things one comes across in attempting to change the site: (1) things only the admins can do i.e. making the curse filter optional, (2) things the mod (or admins) can do i.e. banning and viewing reports, and (3) things which organized members of the community can do.

As the mod, Airmax can participate in two of these things (2 and 3), only one of which (2) pertains exclusively to his being a mod. As President, even if I weren't given mod status I could still participate in (1) and (3). As a mod Airmax still has to work *with* Juggle to enact major changes and isn't in an exclusive position to organize the community (though the status of the Presidency makes it easier for him to do so).

If, as President, I'm not given mod status, I don't think it would be a problem for a lot of what I plan to do, that is working with Juggle to enact the policies I feel are necessary along with working with the community itself to upgrade the site on a less technical level (by organizing tournaments, recruiting new members, etc.).

Ore_Ele

Airmax, would you care to comment?

airmax1227

I believe Social's response to the question is accurate and reasonable. The president has a unique ability to facilitate the things he is seeking to do, that does not necessitate being the mod. If he should win the election while I remain the mod, I will help him in any way that I can to reach the goals he has for improving the site.

Ore_Ele

The next question is for Airmax.

Over your term, votes have dropped 50% (from 51.8 on 6/15 to 25.5 on 10/20) and posts have dropped almost 50% (from 1613 per day on 6/15 to 817 per day on 10/20). What do you believe to be the root of this problem, if you see it as a problem, and what do you plan on doing to address it?

airmax1227

I really couldn't say with any certainty what the root cause of this problem is. I have spent a fair amount of time seeking explanations and solutions for it and have yet to find a reasonable answer.

That being said I would like to find a way to encourage more voting, but have yet to devise a reasonable way of doing so. Just after being elected, one of my biggest goals was to resolve many of the complaints people had regarding poor voting conduct, and to that end, I believe I have been largely successful in implementing certain policies that have reformed some of that behavior. A downside to that though is possibly contributing to the decrease in the total number of votes. I don't believe there is a simple solution to this problem, but it's something I take very seriously and would like to see reversed.

Ore_Ele

Social, would you care to respond?

Ore_Ele

After Social's comment (if he chooses to do one), Airmax if free to respond. I have to step out for a little while to give a baby a bath and put her to bed.

socialpinko

Like Airmax I don't fully understand what would cause this. However, I plan to try to offset these effects as best I can as President.

On voting, I think the one can encourage better quality and more engaging debates on the one hand (I would do this by organizing a variety of different philosophy tournaments, something I believe Airmax also supports), while continuing to organize voting groups. I've organized several of these voting groups since I've joined the site. This isn't to say their voting *blocs* like the CWO as we have no dominant ideology or purpose in joining the group (other than to find high quality debates to vote on).

Posting is a much different matter. My favorite forum (besides the games) on the site is by far the philosophy forum. However, as many can see, it's been almost barren recently. The way I'd like to stop this is through a large scale social media operation wherein we advertise ourselves on websites like Facebook. This isn't to say we should recruit anyone we see. I'd like to recruit from specific academic leaning niches on the site like philosophy or politics groups, people who seem to actually be intellectually serious. This site has always had a small but devoted membership, I'd like to expand that within reason to facilitate better quality and more frequent discussion.

Ore_Ele

Airmax, you get the final reply if you wish.

airmax1227

Social has a similar view on this as I do. While we may differ slightly on the details for how we would approach a solution to the issue, it's safe to say that our goals are the same and we would both like to see it resolved.

As Social said, there are ways to encourage more quality debates (via tournaments, specific weekly/monthly resolutions suggested by the president and/or Juggle, incentive based debates and otherwise) and to increase membership thereby increasing activity. These and others are all avenues certainly worth exploring, and will need to be a greater focus as the site moves forward.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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10/27/2012 1:38:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ore_Ele

For Social,

Given how polarizing Askbob has been, even the mention of him, why did you decide to use the name of the party he founded, rather than run as no party (or a different named party) with a platform that was similar to his?

socialpinko

I was a member of the Rivalslib Party and ran under the party in the previous to last election. Furthermore most of these proposals were introduced originally (though some have since been co-opted by others) by the Rivalslib Party, so I thought it only makes sense for me to include the name.

Of course I don't think parties are going to be especially relevant. I have a plan of action and that's what matters. Running under the party name doesn't seem to mean much one way or another. I took the name of Askbob's old party, that doesn't mean I'm going to try to change Juggle's position on him or anything.

Ore_Ele

As a follow up question, do you believe that the name of the party may detract from the platform of the party? If not, why not?

socialpinko

I don't think it will at all. Though some who were here during Askbob's tenure may have some thoughts contrary to this, a simple exposition of my platform and plans as President can easily refute this thought.

Furthermore no part of my platform contains any of the things which actually made Askbob so polarizing. Given that we now have user-mods there's no need for vigilante action and with the further development of the judicial system in place, taking care of problems between user and in the community will become a much less centralized (i.e. one person) process. People had a problem with Askbob's actions, not with any of the plans or ideas mentioned in the Rivalslib platform.

Ore_Ele

Airmax, would you care to comment?

airmax1227

While I might question the judgement of associating oneself at all with such a polarizing figure I don't think this issue really reflects at all on Social, and I agree with what he answered. I've seen Social repeatedly respond to questions about it, he's explicitly stated his position regarding Askbob, and I don't think it's fair to Social that this is being made such a big deal. Frankly this entire thing as it relates to the site, and especially as it relates to Social and his campaign is not something I am questioning him about, and I hope we can put it behind us and move on to things of more substance.

Ore_Ele

Social, you get a final reply if you wish.

Ore_Ele

Also, I know that it is getting late for you all, so if we would like, we can call it a night and pick it up tomorrow.

socialpinko

Thank you Airmax for resisting the urge to try to discredit me by association. That's the only response I think is necessary given that Airmax and I don't seem to diverge on this topic.

socialpinko

I'm fine atm. Though if this is going to take like two hours or something I would be fine with resuming tomorrow.

Ore_Ele

I have an additional question for each of you (cutting out a few questions for time).

Airmax,

In early September, Juggle lunched a massive site-wide update. To many members, this update was a lot of flash with no substantive improvements. There were several changes that many viewed as negative changes that may not have been well thought through (e.g. difficulty in finding open challenges). What role did you have in this update? Or did Juggle act without you? On that note, what role did you have with the correcting updates that followed and addressed many of the short comings?

airmax1227

Juggle largely went through with that update on their own. I was given a few aesthetic details, but did not know the extent of the update and the problems that would come out of it.

When I became aware of some of the issues just before the community did, I knew there was no way the update was going to simply be entirely reversed and so I focused on getting the most important aspects of the problems fixed. I felt these major issues were the difficulty in finding "challenge period" debates, and knowing when a member had a new PM. I keyed on these specifically because I felt they had a dramatic effect on the quality of the site.

I contacted, and was contacted by, multiple Juggle reps and I was very adamant that these specific changes needed to be made. Juggle recognized the problem and understanding the importance of the issue, we came up with a solution very quickly.

That entire episode I believe was a valuable lesson for both Juggle and myself in evaluating fully the way to approach updates and how they are scrutinized beforehand.

Juggle works very hard to develop updates and I appreciate the work that every Juggle employee does to improve the site. They want what is best for the site, and that was true during that update as well. They recognize when some things aren't going to work best for the site, and I'm grateful that they were willing to make the changes when prompted to do so.

Ore_Ele

Social, would you care to respond.

socialpinko

The President acts partially as a representative of the community to Juggle. So I don't really see why Airmax would go about this the way he did. Airmax was aware that Juggle was planning on aesthetics/interface upgrade, therefore I don't see why Airmax wouldn't take certain measures/precautions against exactly what happened then. With any major interface or site-wide change there are going to be detractors and there are going to be people who are dissatisfied with those changes. This doesn't seem to be something we can go around but that doesn't mean actions can't be taken to minimize situations like what happened with the latest interface upgrade.

One way to soften these kinds of reactions is to always keep the community more or less in the loop. Asking people specifically what they want and taking that into account is something that I think would have been extremely valuable here. I realize certain policies wouldn't lend themselves as much to direct popular sovereignty, but interface seems at least prima facie to be something that would.

Site-wide interface change is something we can't do without Juggle's help and consequently is something that will necessarily take time both to originally install and to fix in the case that those changes aren't widely accepted. This means it's extremely important that the community be known to be on board prior to those changes. I appreciate that Airmax sees this as a learning experience but I still think he has the wrong idea.

The President is an intermediary with Juggle, not a lone agent in the sense that Juggle employees are. This is one of the things separating change that requires admin help from change that requires mod actions or non-admin related community organization. The President ought to talk with the general community about such side wide changes beforehand both because we deserve to know when a major change is around the corner and, on a more pragmatic level, because we need to minimize unsuccessful side-wide changes as much as possible.

airmax1227

I appreciate Social's response and I feel the same way. This update was made independent of the community and myself. I only became aware of it when it was imminent.

As I said in my response, that episode was a learning experience for myself and Juggle that doing these things unilaterally without seeking feedback directly from the community leads to unfortunate consequences.

Like I said in response to the very first question in this debate, what I'd like to see continue is for Juggle to continue to reach out directly to the community for every potential update that they are planning. This is something they are doing more and more of now, recognizing the importance of it, and will prevent this type of thing from happening in the future.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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10/27/2012 1:38:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ore_Ele

For Social's last question

Since you joined DDO in Feb 2011, you have not been active for any entire presidential term (Airmax"""s first term is currently on track to be the first full term), and have left with debates in progress multiple times. With how important the DDO President now is in working with Juggle, how would you calm concerns that you've not been active consistently enough to hold that relationship with Juggle?

http://www.debate.org......

When you came back, you said, """I'm back over the summer for mafia and a bit of debates. Forums probably won't be a big priority to me."""

Ore_Ele

oh, format fail.

socialpinko

That was my intention when I returned yes, I planned to not be as active. However, I've always been attracted to this site and I don't see that changing. I didn't plan on being as active as I am but the site grabbed a hold of me so to speak. I genuinely enjoy debating, mafia, and interacting with select members on a personal as well as on an intellectual basis (the latter being something I get to do infrequently). The forums I believe need work but I fully intend to incorporate my previously stated plan to get them back to their previous intellectual state.

So it makes sense that my initial prediction would eventually turn out to be false. I've never been the kind of member who doesn't post much or interact with other members of the site. My somewhat intermitent activity has usually been for various personal reasons (excluding my month-long hiatus after the AnCap exodus) which I have no intention of getting into. As it stands though I have no intention of leaving and have done the complete opposite of my earlier prediction. The times in which I've gone on hiatus have always been the exception and not the rule.

Furthermore, the responsibilities of President would almost surely impact any possible future desires I have of laying off the site as far as activity is concerned. Obviously when one doesn't have responsibilities on the site as important as those of corresponding with Juggle, organizing community initiatives, etc. one would be more apt to go on hiatus then if one did have those responsibilities. So I don't really see this point as holding much merit in predicting how I would act *if elected*. As President I would certainly do everything in my power to stay active and attentive to the site.

Ore_Ele

Airmax, would you care to reply.

airmax1227

I have no reason to doubt anything Social just said. From what I know about him and the type of person that he is I believe he is a member that cares about the site, and would be dedicated to it if he were elected as its president.

Ore_Ele

I thank you both for taking the time to participate in this debate and wish you both the best of luck with the elections.

Again, thank you.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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10/27/2012 1:55:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
They only argued once, lol.
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bossyburrito
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10/27/2012 1:58:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/27/2012 1:55:15 AM, OberHerr wrote:
They only argued once, lol.

What would they argue about?
#UnbanTheMadman

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Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
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socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/27/2012 2:02:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This wasn't as much a debate as much as it was an opportunity for us to clarify on certain aspects of either our campaign or our plans/experiences for and on the site respectively. I think it would be better to call it a dialogue.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
OberHerr
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10/27/2012 2:02:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/27/2012 1:58:53 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 10/27/2012 1:55:15 AM, OberHerr wrote:
They only argued once, lol.

What would they argue about?

I dunno. Just kinda funny.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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10/27/2012 2:52:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Socialpinko

"If, as President, I'm not given mod status, I don't think it would be a problem for a lot of what I plan to do, That is working with Juggle to enact the policies I feel are necessary along with working with the community itself to upgrade the site on a less technical level (by organizing tournaments, recruiting new members, etc.)."

What do you mean exactly when you say "I" feel policies should be enacted?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/27/2012 8:39:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/27/2012 2:52:00 PM, jharry wrote:
Socialpinko

"If, as President, I'm not given mod status, I don't think it would be a problem for a lot of what I plan to do, That is working with Juggle to enact the policies I feel are necessary along with working with the community itself to upgrade the site on a less technical level (by organizing tournaments, recruiting new members, etc.)."

What do you mean exactly when you say "I" feel policies should be enacted?

I know what you're getting at, you're still driving at the BS notion that I've somehow claimed I want to act independently of the community. That's not true. Read the community organization aspects of my platform and my specific critique against Airmax in his handling of the last large scale interface change by Juggle. I want to work specifically with the community to get various changes enacted.

It's only because the President is a single person who in some instances has to interact with Juggle himself (i.e., that at some point it will be me alone who interacts with Juggle in various instances) that you can afford to play off of semantical instances. Of course I do get tired of explaining this to you so again, please understand if I don't look on your posts thinking any of these are genuine points.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
imabench
Posts: 21,229
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10/27/2012 9:01:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
*waits for republicans to complain about moderator bias*

(/trolling)
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

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jharry
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10/27/2012 9:29:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/27/2012 8:39:01 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 10/27/2012 2:52:00 PM, jharry wrote:
Socialpinko

"If, as President, I'm not given mod status, I don't think it would be a problem for a lot of what I plan to do, That is working with Juggle to enact the policies I feel are necessary along with working with the community itself to upgrade the site on a less technical level (by organizing tournaments, recruiting new members, etc.)."

What do you mean exactly when you say "I" feel policies should be enacted?

I know what you're getting at, you're still driving at the BS notion that I've somehow claimed I want to act independently of the community. That's not true. Read the community organization aspects of my platform and my specific critique against Airmax in his handling of the last large scale interface change by Juggle. I want to work specifically with the community to get various changes enacted.

It's only because the President is a single person who in some instances has to interact with Juggle himself (i.e., that at some point it will be me alone who interacts with Juggle in various instances) that you can afford to play off of semantical instances. Of course I do get tired of explaining this to you so again, please understand if I don't look on your posts thinking any of these are genuine points.

Cool, thanks for blowing off a member of this site.

Your entire campaign is based on the fact that you know the site and community "better" than airmax but have not shown how and why this even matters if you plan on pushing the updates the community desires.

It doesn't add up at all.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/27/2012 11:56:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/27/2012 9:29:21 PM, jharry wrote:

Cool, thanks for blowing off a member of this site.

You can't really continuously throw out almost completely conjectural claims against me even in the face of devastating refutation (as well as the rebuking of these statements even by the guy I'm running against- see the latest PM debate between me and Airmax) and then expect me to just keep giving you the benefit of the doubt concerning your motives for saying these things. I don't think askbob was the devil incarnate, therefore you think I must be part of some askbob/ancap conspiracy or that I must want to do everything on my own. A faulty presupposition like that is the only way I can make sense of your continued defense of these insane claims of yours.

Your entire campaign is based on the fact that you know the site and community "better" than airmax but have not shown how and why this even matters if you plan on pushing the updates the community desires.

Again, see my complete refutation of this statement in my previous post. My platform has a whole section specifically on things we AS A COMMUNITY can do to better the site. Tournaments to encourage better debates, voting groups (not blocs like the CWO obviously lol but you probs know something about that right?) to encourage higher frequency and better quality voting, active recruiting from academic niches on various social networking websites to bring in fresh blood, a continued revisement and upgrading of our judicial system to more incorporate the community in dealing with detrimental members, etc. What part of that says I think I know everything? One of my criticisms of Airmax was specifically that he failed to take community consensus into account in the latest side wide interface update. Learn to read sir.

It doesn't add up at all.

It's not a math problem so that's probs a good thing.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
jharry
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10/28/2012 12:08:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/27/2012 11:56:40 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 10/27/2012 9:29:21 PM, jharry wrote:

Cool, thanks for blowing off a member of this site.

You can't really continuously throw out almost completely conjectural claims against me even in the face of devastating refutation (as well as the rebuking of these statements even by the guy I'm running against- see the latest PM debate between me and Airmax) and then expect me to just keep giving you the benefit of the doubt concerning your motives for saying these things. I don't think askbob was the devil incarnate, therefore you think I must be part of some askbob/ancap conspiracy or that I must want to do everything on my own. A faulty presupposition like that is the only way I can make sense of your continued defense of these insane claims of yours.

And still you refuse to answer a very simple question.

If you had the option would you unban askbob.

Your entire campaign is based on the fact that you know the site and community "better" than airmax but have not shown how and why this even matters if you plan on pushing the updates the community desires.

Again, see my complete refutation of this statement in my previous post. My platform has a whole section specifically on things we AS A COMMUNITY can do to better the site. Tournaments to encourage better debates, voting groups (not blocs like the CWO obviously lol but you probs know something about that right?) to encourage higher frequency and better quality voting, active recruiting from academic niches on various social networking websites to bring in fresh blood, a continued revisement and upgrading of our judicial system to more incorporate the community in dealing with detrimental members, etc. What part of that says I think I know everything? One of my criticisms of Airmax was specifically that he failed to take community consensus into account in the latest side wide interface update. Learn to read sir.

And still, you refuse to answer simple questions. I don't care if you don't, it makes you look guilty. All of that "stuff" you claim members can do. But you have not done one of them to date. Instead of doing something you save them up until election time. It looks like you don't really care about doing them, just using them as talking points to gain votes. At least askbob pretended to do these things right before the election. You just try to ignore and ridicule me.

It doesn't add up at all.

It's not a math problem so that's probs a good thing.

It is a problem, but I think the community will see through you soon enough.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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10/28/2012 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Jharry, it would be nice to see a coherent, condensed discussion of your reasons to attack Socialpinko than to see very thread now and then frequented with your inquiries. :)
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"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
jharry
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10/28/2012 12:22:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:11:25 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
Jharry, it would be nice to see a coherent, condensed discussion of your reasons to attack Socialpinko than to see very thread now and then frequented with your inquiries. :)

This is not attacking lol, I'm being very nice. For me anyway.
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socialpinko
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10/28/2012 12:34:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:08:17 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/27/2012 11:56:40 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 10/27/2012 9:29:21 PM, jharry wrote:

Cool, thanks for blowing off a member of this site.

You can't really continuously throw out almost completely conjectural claims against me even in the face of devastating refutation (as well as the rebuking of these statements even by the guy I'm running against- see the latest PM debate between me and Airmax) and then expect me to just keep giving you the benefit of the doubt concerning your motives for saying these things. I don't think askbob was the devil incarnate, therefore you think I must be part of some askbob/ancap conspiracy or that I must want to do everything on my own. A faulty presupposition like that is the only way I can make sense of your continued defense of these insane claims of yours.

And still you refuse to answer a very simple question.

If you had the option would you unban askbob.

Let's say we live in a world where unicorns exist and volcanoes spew chocolate syrup. Now let's say a unicorn slips in this chocolate syrup and subsequently breaks it's leg. Would you stop to help the unicorn or would you continue on with your day if say, you were going to be late for work if you did? Quick answer now of I'll know you're hiding something! What exactly do you think I'm hiding? Furthermore it should be painfully obvious I refuse to answer out of principles, not out of some conspiratorial love for askbob. If it was the latter, why couldn't I just lie?

Your entire campaign is based on the fact that you know the site and community "better" than airmax but have not shown how and why this even matters if you plan on pushing the updates the community desires.

Again, see my complete refutation of this statement in my previous post. My platform has a whole section specifically on things we AS A COMMUNITY can do to better the site. Tournaments to encourage better debates, voting groups (not blocs like the CWO obviously lol but you probs know something about that right?) to encourage higher frequency and better quality voting, active recruiting from academic niches on various social networking websites to bring in fresh blood, a continued revisement and upgrading of our judicial system to more incorporate the community in dealing with detrimental members, etc. What part of that says I think I know everything? One of my criticisms of Airmax was specifically that he failed to take community consensus into account in the latest side wide interface update. Learn to read sir.

And still, you refuse to answer simple questions. I don't care if you don't, it makes you look guilty.

Guilty of what?

All of that "stuff" you claim members can do. But you have not done one of them to date.

This should be fun. Let's look at my proposals one by one.

First, tournaments to encourage better quality debates:
I've hosted multiple tournaments. "Merda's moral philosophy tournament", "Spinko's totally not fixed tournament", a summer tourney about 5 months ago, an ELO tourney, and a "philosophy tournament" which is ongoing. I've also participated in probably twice that, among them DNinja's, Cliff's, Mr. Infidel's (now Microsuck) respective tournaments. That's one down.

Second, voting groups to encourage more frequent and better quality votes (not a bloc like the CWO mind you:
On Oct. 10 I sent a message starting a group to the following members: F-495, Roy, MiG, Zaradi, Double_R, larz, wiploc, Microsuck and phantom. I was also in a few voting groups with similar members while including Blackvoid, Partamruhem, and seraine as well a little while back. That's two down.

Third, I actually ran the social relations committee with CiRrK a little while ago. We posted debates on a DDO representative account on Twitter for advertisement and to attract new members. It was short lived and I don't think it targeted the right places but it's the inspiration for the social media operation part of my policy proposal. That's three down.

Fourth, I admit I haven't participated too much in the trial system to date. But at the very least I way refuted your claim that I haven't done even of these proposals to date. Though I suppose the Presidency does offer one a better chance to work on the trial system.

Instead of doing something you save them up until election time. It looks like you don't really care about doing them, just using them as talking points to gain votes. At least askbob pretended to do these things right before the election. You just try to ignore and ridicule me.

See above lol.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
jharry
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10/28/2012 12:58:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 12:34:10 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 10/28/2012 12:08:17 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/27/2012 11:56:40 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 10/27/2012 9:29:21 PM, jharry wrote:

Cool, thanks for blowing off a member of this site.

You can't really continuously throw out almost completely conjectural claims against me even in the face of devastating refutation (as well as the rebuking of these statements even by the guy I'm running against- see the latest PM debate between me and Airmax) and then expect me to just keep giving you the benefit of the doubt concerning your motives for saying these things. I don't think askbob was the devil incarnate, therefore you think I must be part of some askbob/ancap conspiracy or that I must want to do everything on my own. A faulty presupposition like that is the only way I can make sense of your continued defense of these insane claims of yours.

And still you refuse to answer a very simple question.

If you had the option would you unban askbob.

Let's say we live in a world where unicorns exist and volcanoes spew chocolate syrup. Now let's say a unicorn slips in this chocolate syrup and subsequently breaks it's leg. Would you stop to help the unicorn or would you continue on with your day if say, you were going to be late for work if you did? Quick answer now of I'll know you're hiding something! What exactly do you think I'm hiding? Furthermore it should be painfully obvious I refuse to answer out of principles, not out of some conspiratorial love for askbob. If it was the latter, why couldn't I just lie?

I'm sure he is lurking. Cool story bro, I'm sure your principles are worth it.

Your entire campaign is based on the fact that you know the site and community "better" than airmax but have not shown how and why this even matters if you plan on pushing the updates the community desires.

Again, see my complete refutation of this statement in my previous post. My platform has a whole section specifically on things we AS A COMMUNITY can do to better the site. Tournaments to encourage better debates, voting groups (not blocs like the CWO obviously lol but you probs know something about that right?) to encourage higher frequency and better quality voting, active recruiting from academic niches on various social networking websites to bring in fresh blood, a continued revisement and upgrading of our judicial system to more incorporate the community in dealing with detrimental members, etc. What part of that says I think I know everything? One of my criticisms of Airmax was specifically that he failed to take community consensus into account in the latest side wide interface update. Learn to read sir.

And still, you refuse to answer simple questions. I don't care if you don't, it makes you look guilty.

Guilty of what?

All of that "stuff" you claim members can do. But you have not done one of them to date.

This should be fun. Let's look at my proposals one by one.

First, tournaments to encourage better quality debates:
I've hosted multiple tournaments. "Merda's moral philosophy tournament", "Spinko's totally not fixed tournament", a summer tourney about 5 months ago, an ELO tourney, and a "philosophy tournament" which is ongoing. I've also participated in probably twice that, among them DNinja's, Cliff's, Mr. Infidel's (now Microsuck) respective tournaments. That's one down.

Lots of people start tournaments, doesn't mean anything.

Second, voting groups to encourage more frequent and better quality votes (not a bloc like the CWO mind you:
On Oct. 10 I sent a message starting a group to the following members: F-495, Roy, MiG, Zaradi, Double_R, larz, wiploc, Microsuck and phantom. I was also in a few voting groups with similar members while including Blackvoid, Partamruhem, and seraine as well a little while back. That's two down.

Oct 10th? 2012?

Third, I actually ran the social relations committee with CiRrK a little while ago. We posted debates on a DDO representative account on Twitter for advertisement and to attract new members. It was short lived and I don't think it targeted the right places but it's the inspiration for the social media operation part of my policy proposal. That's three down.

And it was short lived. And it didn't target the right places. So you were not really running it or you didn't have the knowledge or ability to target the right areas. And you want to be President?

Fourth, I admit I haven't participated too much in the trial system to date. But at the very least I way refuted your claim that I haven't done even of these proposals to date. Though I suppose the Presidency does offer one a better chance to work on the trial system.

And that is all you did? And most of it failed? Are you bragging or complaining?

You proposed much more then listed.

Instead of doing something you save them up until election time. It looks like you don't really care about doing them, just using them as talking points to gain votes. At least askbob pretended to do these things right before the election. You just try to ignore and ridicule me.

See above lol.

When you can find something that really counts please let me know.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
socialpinko
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10/28/2012 1:23:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Oh me gerd you said I haven't done a single thing I'm proposing to do. When I show you I've already done or begun doing phase-work to do the various community oriented proposals I have, you just totally sidestep that and go to criticizing about them instead of just realizing I completely refuted your original claim. And I know I have other proposals, can't really work on the interface or admin required proposals though until I'm President. I can only do the community projects which as I've shown I've been extremely active in.

Lost of people start tournaments? Perhaps, but I wasn't making the claim that it was exceptional. I was refuting your claim that I'm only introducing these things as talking points when it shoul be obvious I've been involved since before this election. On my voting group, it's one of the recent ones. I've been in several others though as I stated so it's convenient you only stick to the most recent one. I've been in multiple other voting groups with the people mentioned, starting at least as far back as September of 2011. On the social media operation, I never said it was a success. It was a crucual introductory step that helped me learn what to change. Instead of targeting sites qua the whole we should target specific niches where good quality prospects would be.

Stop grasping at straws as it's obvious that's all you're doing at this point.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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10/28/2012 1:27:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Jharry, I find your antics amusing, to say the least--and your tricks and frequent conversations as well. XD
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
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10/28/2012 1:36:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:27:25 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
Jharry, I find your antics amusing, to say the least--and your tricks and frequent conversations as well. XD

If I had the same doggedness, and the same nicety of behavior, and the same tendencies, I would be most delighted to put these wonderful powers to procure humor and merry mirth.

But then again, your recourse is already provoking some amusement, so even then the failure of sobriety is a victory for humor. :)
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
jharry
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10/28/2012 1:42:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:23:22 AM, socialpinko wrote:
Oh me gerd you said I haven't done a single thing I'm proposing to do. When I show you I've already done or begun doing phase-work to do the various community oriented proposals I have, you just totally sidestep that and go to criticizing about them instead of just realizing I completely refuted your original claim. And I know I have other proposals, can't really work on the interface or admin required proposals though until I'm President. I can only do the community projects which as I've shown I've been extremely active in.

You left this site because you wanted to do all these things you claim you have done?

Lost of people start tournaments? Perhaps, but I wasn't making the claim that it was exceptional. I was refuting your claim that I'm only introducing these things as talking points when it shoul be obvious I've been involved since before this election. On my voting group, it's one of the recent ones. I've been in several others though as I stated so it's convenient you only stick to the most recent one. I've been in multiple other voting groups with the people mentioned, starting at least as far back as September of 2011. On the social media operation, I never said it was a success. It was a crucual introductory step that helped me learn what to change. Instead of targeting sites qua the whole we should target specific niches where good quality prospects would be.

But now you have a sudden desire to start this voting group because? And how many have you brought over since you figured out where to look?

Stop grasping at straws as it's obvious that's all you're doing at this point.

Just doing a bit of digging.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
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10/28/2012 1:43:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:27:25 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
Jharry, I find your antics amusing, to say the least--and your tricks and frequent conversations as well. XD

Awesome, who you voting for?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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10/28/2012 1:45:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:43:48 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:27:25 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
Jharry, I find your antics amusing, to say the least--and your tricks and frequent conversations as well. XD

Awesome, who you voting for?

I won't say anything about that...:P
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
jharry
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10/28/2012 2:03:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:45:11 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:43:48 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:27:25 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
Jharry, I find your antics amusing, to say the least--and your tricks and frequent conversations as well. XD

Awesome, who you voting for?

I won't say anything about that...:P

Enough said.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/28/2012 2:03:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 1:42:23 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:23:22 AM, socialpinko wrote:
Oh me gerd you said I haven't done a single thing I'm proposing to do. When I show you I've already done or begun doing phase-work to do the various community oriented proposals I have, you just totally sidestep that and go to criticizing about them instead of just realizing I completely refuted your original claim. And I know I have other proposals, can't really work on the interface or admin required proposals though until I'm President. I can only do the community projects which as I've shown I've been extremely active in.

You left this site because you wanted to do all these things you claim you have done?

Wut.

Lost of people start tournaments? Perhaps, but I wasn't making the claim that it was exceptional. I was refuting your claim that I'm only introducing these things as talking points when it shoul be obvious I've been involved since before this election. On my voting group, it's one of the recent ones. I've been in several others though as I stated so it's convenient you only stick to the most recent one. I've been in multiple other voting groups with the people mentioned, starting at least as far back as September of 2011. On the social media operation, I never said it was a success. It was a crucual introductory step that helped me learn what to change. Instead of targeting sites qua the whole we should target specific niches where good quality prospects would be.

But now you have a sudden desire to start this voting group because?

It's not a sudden desire. The first voting group I started was on Sept. 9, 2011 between myself, MiG, DNinja, seraine, and F-34. The membership was updated a few times, eventually adding in members like Partamruhem, Blackvoid, and Double_R. That one became defunct after a few months and I started a new one on June 13, 2012 between myself, Roy, TUF, Double_R, MiG, and F-422. My most recent one was started on Oct. 10, with the aforementioned people from my original post on the matter.

And how many have you brought over since you figured out where to look?

I don't know what that means?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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10/28/2012 2:04:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 2:03:37 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:45:11 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:43:48 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:27:25 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
Jharry, I find your antics amusing, to say the least--and your tricks and frequent conversations as well. XD

Awesome, who you voting for?

I won't say anything about that...:P

Enough said.

Oh yes, especially from a writer's/teacher's point of view.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
jharry
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10/28/2012 2:10:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 2:03:59 AM, socialpinko wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:42:23 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:23:22 AM, socialpinko wrote:
Oh me gerd you said I haven't done a single thing I'm proposing to do. When I show you I've already done or begun doing phase-work to do the various community oriented proposals I have, you just totally sidestep that and go to criticizing about them instead of just realizing I completely refuted your original claim. And I know I have other proposals, can't really work on the interface or admin required proposals though until I'm President. I can only do the community projects which as I've shown I've been extremely active in.

You left this site because you wanted to do all these things you claim you have done?

Wut.

Cool.

Lost of people start tournaments? Perhaps, but I wasn't making the claim that it was exceptional. I was refuting your claim that I'm only introducing these things as talking points when it shoul be obvious I've been involved since before this election. On my voting group, it's one of the recent ones. I've been in several others though as I stated so it's convenient you only stick to the most recent one. I've been in multiple other voting groups with the people mentioned, starting at least as far back as September of 2011. On the social media operation, I never said it was a success. It was a crucual introductory step that helped me learn what to change. Instead of targeting sites qua the whole we should target specific niches where good quality prospects would be.

But now you have a sudden desire to start this voting group because?

It's not a sudden desire. The first voting group I started was on Sept. 9, 2011 between myself, MiG, DNinja, seraine, and F-34. The membership was updated a few times, eventually adding in members like Partamruhem, Blackvoid, and Double_R. That one became defunct after a few months and I started a new one on June 13, 2012 between myself, Roy, TUF, Double_R, MiG, and F-422. My most recent one was started on Oct. 10, with the aforementioned people from my original post on the matter.

Over a year between the two groups? When was the last election?

And how many have you brought over since you figured out where to look?

I don't know what that means?

Wow, you just ignore all the questions. Lol
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
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10/28/2012 2:14:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 2:04:26 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 10/28/2012 2:03:37 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:45:11 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:43:48 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:27:25 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
Jharry, I find your antics amusing, to say the least--and your tricks and frequent conversations as well. XD

Awesome, who you voting for?

I won't say anything about that...:P

Enough said.

Oh yes, especially from a writer's/teacher's point of view.

Lol, I can see clearly now that the rain is gone.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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10/28/2012 2:17:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 2:14:42 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 2:04:26 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 10/28/2012 2:03:37 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:45:11 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:43:48 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:27:25 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
Jharry, I find your antics amusing, to say the least--and your tricks and frequent conversations as well. XD

Awesome, who you voting for?

I won't say anything about that...:P

Enough said.

Oh yes, especially from a writer's/teacher's point of view.

Lol, I can see clearly now that the rain is gone.

And a tableau is left unadorned, lol.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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10/28/2012 2:23:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/28/2012 2:17:43 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 10/28/2012 2:14:42 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 2:04:26 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 10/28/2012 2:03:37 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:45:11 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:43:48 AM, jharry wrote:
At 10/28/2012 1:27:25 AM, Man-is-good wrote:
Jharry, I find your antics amusing, to say the least--and your tricks and frequent conversations as well. XD

Awesome, who you voting for?

I won't say anything about that...:P

Enough said.

Oh yes, especially from a writer's/teacher's point of view.

Lol, I can see clearly now that the rain is gone.

And a tableau is left unadorned, lol.

And I wouldn't say rain...perhaps--fog or mist???
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau