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Are "Top Debaters" Really Top Debaters?

CriticalThinkingMachine
Posts: 49
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11/4/2012 9:59:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If anyone has answers to these questions, I'd appreciate it.

When one clicks on "More Top Debaters", a list appears which lists debaters as top debaters according to their percentile. But the "Top Debaters" list on the main page seems to have different debaters every day, and they are always people that I do not see on the stationary list of top debaters. And often these debaters have low win ratios. One person on the list may have a win ratio in the 90's and another might have a win ratio in the 40's. ????? If there is logic to who appears as a top debater on the main page, it certainly is not apparent.

So I have four questions:

1. What is the percentile (which determines a top debater on the stationary page) based on?

2. Why does the list of top debaters on the main page differ from the list of top debaters on the stationary page?

3. Why does the list of top debaters on the main page change from day to day?

4. What determines who is a top debater on the ever-changing main page?
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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11/4/2012 10:00:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The top debaters that appear on the front page are, I believe, sir, those that recent logged on.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/4/2012 10:03:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The leader board is based solely on wins so win ratio is irrelevant.

The other page seems a bit useless and misleading. It just seems to be debaters who are active recently or something. No reason to pay attention to it.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
CriticalThinkingMachine
Posts: 49
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11/4/2012 10:09:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
man-is-good: The top debaters that appear on the front page are, I believe, sir, those that recent [sic] logged on.

Perhaps that is true, but it still does not explain what recently logging on has anything to do with being a top debater.
CriticalThinkingMachine
Posts: 49
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11/4/2012 10:10:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
phantom: The leader board is based solely on wins so win ratio is irrelevant.

The other page seems a bit useless and misleading. It just seems to be debaters who are active recently or something. No reason to pay attention to it.


Yep, that's what I suspected.
Man-is-good
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11/4/2012 10:11:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 10:00:40 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
The top debaters that appear on the front page are, I believe, sir, those that have recently logged on.

Fixed.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
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11/4/2012 10:18:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 10:09:04 PM, CriticalThinkingMachine wrote:
man-is-good: The top debaters that appear on the front page are, I believe, sir, those that recent [sic] logged on.

Perhaps that is true, but it still does not explain what recently logging on has anything to do with being a top debater.

I hope you will not try to resume your queries with me, as if to suppose I am a stalwart defender of the site.

In any case, I believe it refers to anyone who has logged on, as there is no real range of debate wins ratio or the sort that likely can point to a specific meter or basis of judgement. It is misleading, but irrelevant (the actual ranking, the Leader-board--which also should be discounted if you seek to weigh by terms of capability--is accessible on the front page.)
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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11/4/2012 10:21:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 10:18:01 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 11/4/2012 10:09:04 PM, CriticalThinkingMachine wrote:
man-is-good: The top debaters that appear on the front page are, I believe, sir, those that recent [sic] logged on.

Perhaps that is true, but it still does not explain what recently logging on has anything to do with being a top debater.

I hope you will not try to resume your queries with me, as if to suppose I am a stalwart defender of the site.

In any case, I believe it refers to anyone who has logged on, as there is no real range of debate wins ratio or the sort that likely can point to a specific meter or basis of judgement. It is misleading, but irrelevant (the actual ranking, the Leader-board--which also should be discounted if you seek to weigh by terms of capability--is accessible on the front page.)

And I don't profess to really know the mechanics behind the top-debaters section, considering its ever-changing set of nominees/members. So that's just a hunch.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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11/4/2012 10:24:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 10:21:25 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 11/4/2012 10:18:01 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 11/4/2012 10:09:04 PM, CriticalThinkingMachine wrote:
man-is-good: The top debaters that appear on the front page are, I believe, sir, those that recent [sic] logged on.

Perhaps that is true, but it still does not explain what recently logging on has anything to do with being a top debater.

I hope you will not try to resume your queries with me, as if to suppose I am a stalwart defender of the site.

In any case, I believe it refers to anyone who has logged on, as there is no real range of debate wins ratio or the sort that likely can point to a specific meter or basis of judgement. It is misleading, but irrelevant (the actual ranking, the Leader-board--which also should be discounted if you seek to weigh by terms of capability--is accessible on the front page.)

And I don't profess to really know the mechanics behind the top-debaters section, considering its ever-changing set of nominees/members. So that's just a hunch.

And hmm...apologies if that sounded a bit too disdainful, lol..
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
CriticalThinkingMachine
Posts: 49
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11/4/2012 10:27:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 10:18:01 PM, Man-is-good wrote:
At 11/4/2012 10:09:04 PM, CriticalThinkingMachine wrote:
man-is-good: The top debaters that appear on the front page are, I believe, sir, those that recent [sic] logged on.

Perhaps that is true, but it still does not explain what recently logging on has anything to do with being a top debater.

man-is-good: I hope you will not try to resume your queries with me, as if to suppose I am a stalwart defender of the site.

No, I will not. I hope that you will not as well.

man-is-good: In any case, I believe it refers to anyone who has logged on, as there is no real range of debate wins ratio or the sort that likely can point to a specific meter or basis of judgement. It is misleading, but irrelevant (the actual ranking, the Leader-board--which also should be discounted if you seek to weigh by terms of capability--is accessible on the front page.)

Okay, so we seem to agree. The top debaters chart is misleading and irrelevant. Who knows why it's there?
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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11/5/2012 5:17:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/5/2012 11:34:35 AM, CiRrK wrote:
Speaking of which, if Ore sees this....can we have updated ELO rankings?
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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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11/5/2012 9:26:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
We aren't the best.

Source: it ranks me as one of the best
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/5/2012 9:28:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/4/2012 10:03:18 PM, phantom wrote:
The leader board is based solely on wins so win ratio is irrelevant.

The other page seems a bit useless and misleading. It just seems to be debaters who are active recently or something. No reason to pay attention to it.

It isn't based on wins, it's based on some equation. It used to exist on the "about" page but the section where it was seems to be removed.
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fnord
FREEDO
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11/5/2012 9:29:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The system should soon be updated to the ELO system though. It takes into account not only your own wins but the wins of those you debate against. Winning against better debaters gives you a better score. I'm highly anticipating it.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/5/2012 10:56:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/5/2012 9:28:29 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/4/2012 10:03:18 PM, phantom wrote:
The leader board is based solely on wins so win ratio is irrelevant.

The other page seems a bit useless and misleading. It just seems to be debaters who are active recently or something. No reason to pay attention to it.

It isn't based on wins, it's based on some equation. It used to exist on the "about" page but the section where it was seems to be removed.

Wait the leaderboard's not based on wins? What's it done by then?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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11/6/2012 4:49:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/5/2012 10:56:01 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/5/2012 9:28:29 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/4/2012 10:03:18 PM, phantom wrote:
The leader board is based solely on wins so win ratio is irrelevant.

The other page seems a bit useless and misleading. It just seems to be debaters who are active recently or something. No reason to pay attention to it.

It isn't based on wins, it's based on some equation. It used to exist on the "about" page but the section where it was seems to be removed.

Wait the leaderboard's not based on wins? What's it done by then?

seems like the amount of wins balanced out by the amount of non-wins. Take for instance Brianegglestrom and dairygirl4u2c, numbers are everything.

btw, don't take my opinion serious, im rather new here.
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phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/6/2012 11:50:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/6/2012 4:49:12 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 11/5/2012 10:56:01 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/5/2012 9:28:29 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/4/2012 10:03:18 PM, phantom wrote:
The leader board is based solely on wins so win ratio is irrelevant.

The other page seems a bit useless and misleading. It just seems to be debaters who are active recently or something. No reason to pay attention to it.

It isn't based on wins, it's based on some equation. It used to exist on the "about" page but the section where it was seems to be removed.

Wait the leaderboard's not based on wins? What's it done by then?

seems like the amount of wins balanced out by the amount of non-wins. Take for instance Brianegglestrom and dairygirl4u2c, numbers are everything.

btw, don't take my opinion serious, im rather new here.

BrianEgglston is fourth on the leaderboard so that doesn't really make sense.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/6/2012 7:44:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/5/2012 10:56:01 PM, phantom wrote:
Wait the leaderboard's not based on wins? What's it done by then?

Notice that you can adjust the board to show most wins. Wins are separate from percentile, although they look very similar.

The first person on the leaderboard to have less wins than the person below them is actually, funny enough, you above me. This is because you've done more debates and that has something to do with it.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/6/2012 9:29:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/6/2012 7:44:23 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/5/2012 10:56:01 PM, phantom wrote:
Wait the leaderboard's not based on wins? What's it done by then?

Notice that you can adjust the board to show most wins. Wins are separate from percentile, although they look very similar.

I did always wander why you could do that and why it delayed in updating when there was no delay by number of wins.

The first person on the leaderboard to have less wins than the person below them is actually, funny enough, you above me. This is because you've done more debates and that has something to do with it.

Heh, usually I just attribute those to the leaderboard not being updated recently enough but it's been a while since I've done a debate so that couldn't be it. Never knew that.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)