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Calling out Conservative Politico

Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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11/8/2012 10:09:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Since the topic that he started and then never responded to keeps getting buried before he comes back on the site, I'll just post my response here and hopefully he'll see it and I can finally figure out what his reasons are for completely ignoring these facts.

The United States caused a major increase in Islamic radicalism by overthrowing Iran's democracy in 1953 and validating the outrage of Islamic fundamentalists. Before the Iranian Coup, radical Muslims were not nearly as active, and the 1979 revolution was a direct result of the 1953 coup.

The United States caused the Lebanese civil war by rigging the Lebanese elections in 1957 so that a Christian would be elected instead of a Muslim.

The United States was an ally of Saddam Hussein up until he threatened our own economic interests. We aided him with money, weapons, military technology, and we helped him develop his WMD programs. We did not try to help the Kurds at all, and our military aid contributed to the genocide. The fact that Saddam threatened our wealthy ally Kuwait is the only reason that we turned against him.

The Iran-Iraq war was started by Iraq, which was our ally in the Middle East.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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11/8/2012 10:17:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 10:15:02 PM, darkkermit wrote:
you 2 should debate.

Yeah but as it is there are a lot of specific things I just want to get a simple reaction from him on. If we are still at odds on one of more of those things after he finally responds to them, then that'd be a good debate.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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11/11/2012 12:34:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You know... bump and whatnot
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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11/13/2012 2:39:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
God damnit! He was in this very forumn section and he missed it.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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11/13/2012 2:59:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 2:45:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Wait, what? I don't even recognize this...

What are you trying to tell me exactly?

Yeah it's understandable cause it's been while since you posted it. Your article "Why the US can't leave the middle east" I commented on it, never got a response. I presented these facts, which disprove many of the points in your article. I just really want to hear what you have to say about them, since I thought we could have a really interesting discussion... although to be honest at first I just got pissed off at some of the assertions int he article. But in any case...
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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11/13/2012 3:02:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 2:59:52 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 11/13/2012 2:45:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Wait, what? I don't even recognize this...

What are you trying to tell me exactly?

Yeah it's understandable cause it's been while since you posted it. Your article "Why the US can't leave the middle east" I commented on it, never got a response. I presented these facts, which disprove many of the points in your article. I just really want to hear what you have to say about them, since I thought we could have a really interesting discussion... although to be honest at first I just got pissed off at some of the assertions int he article. But in any case...

Oh I see, I see.

Well, can you source where you got that the US rigged the Lebanese election? I couldn't find anything.

Also, can you source where the State department said Saddam Hussein was our ally?

I'm honestly curious.
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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11/13/2012 3:27:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 3:02:17 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 11/13/2012 2:59:52 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 11/13/2012 2:45:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Wait, what? I don't even recognize this...

What are you trying to tell me exactly?

Yeah it's understandable cause it's been while since you posted it. Your article "Why the US can't leave the middle east" I commented on it, never got a response. I presented these facts, which disprove many of the points in your article. I just really want to hear what you have to say about them, since I thought we could have a really interesting discussion... although to be honest at first I just got pissed off at some of the assertions int he article. But in any case...

Oh I see, I see.

Well, can you source where you got that the US rigged the Lebanese election? I couldn't find anything.

Also, can you source where the State department said Saddam Hussein was our ally?

I'm honestly curious.

Sure thing.

Lebanon-

"Lebanon had a relatively free parliamentary democracy 1943-1956. In 1957, I have been told by a former US government official, the US CIA intervened covertly in the Lebanese elections to ensure that the Lebanese constitution would be amended to allow far-right Maronite President Camille Chamoun (1952-1958) to have a second term." -http://www.juancole.com...

Saddam Hussein-

"The U.S. provided critical battle planning assistance at a time when U.S. intelligence agencies knew that Iraqi commanders would employ chemical weapons in waging the war, according to senior military officers with direct knowledge of the program. The U.S. carried out this covert program at a time when Secretary of State George P. Shultz, United States Secretary of Defense Frank C. Carlucci and National Security Adviser General Colin L. Powell were publicly condemning Iraq for its use of poison gas, especially after Iraq attacked Kurdish villagers in Halabja in March 1988. U.S. officials publicly condemned Iraq's employment of mustard gas, sarin, VX and other poisonous agents, but sixty Defense Intelligence Agency officers were secretly providing detailed information on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for airstrikes and bomb-damage assessments for Iraq. It has long been known that the U.S. provided intelligence assistance, such as satellite photography, to Saddam's regime.

Under the Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush administrations, the U.S. authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous dual use items that had both military and civilian applications, including chemicals which can be used in manufacturing of pesticides or chemical weapons and live viruses and bacteria, such as anthrax and bubonic plague used in medicine and the manufacture of vaccines or weaponized for use in biological weapons." -http://en.wikipedia.org...
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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11/13/2012 3:33:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 3:27:01 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 11/13/2012 3:02:17 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 11/13/2012 2:59:52 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 11/13/2012 2:45:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Wait, what? I don't even recognize this...

What are you trying to tell me exactly?

Yeah it's understandable cause it's been while since you posted it. Your article "Why the US can't leave the middle east" I commented on it, never got a response. I presented these facts, which disprove many of the points in your article. I just really want to hear what you have to say about them, since I thought we could have a really interesting discussion... although to be honest at first I just got pissed off at some of the assertions int he article. But in any case...

Oh I see, I see.

Well, can you source where you got that the US rigged the Lebanese election? I couldn't find anything.

Also, can you source where the State department said Saddam Hussein was our ally?

I'm honestly curious.

Sure thing.

Lebanon-

"Lebanon had a relatively free parliamentary democracy 1943-1956. In 1957, I have been told by a former US government official, the US CIA intervened covertly in the Lebanese elections to ensure that the Lebanese constitution would be amended to allow far-right Maronite President Camille Chamoun (1952-1958) to have a second term." -http://www.juancole.com...

Saddam Hussein-

"The U.S. provided critical battle planning assistance at a time when U.S. intelligence agencies knew that Iraqi commanders would employ chemical weapons in waging the war, according to senior military officers with direct knowledge of the program. The U.S. carried out this covert program at a time when Secretary of State George P. Shultz, United States Secretary of Defense Frank C. Carlucci and National Security Adviser General Colin L. Powell were publicly condemning Iraq for its use of poison gas, especially after Iraq attacked Kurdish villagers in Halabja in March 1988. U.S. officials publicly condemned Iraq's employment of mustard gas, sarin, VX and other poisonous agents, but sixty Defense Intelligence Agency officers were secretly providing detailed information on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for airstrikes and bomb-damage assessments for Iraq. It has long been known that the U.S. provided intelligence assistance, such as satellite photography, to Saddam's regime.

Under the Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush administrations, the U.S. authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous dual use items that had both military and civilian applications, including chemicals which can be used in manufacturing of pesticides or chemical weapons and live viruses and bacteria, such as anthrax and bubonic plague used in medicine and the manufacture of vaccines or weaponized for use in biological weapons." -http://en.wikipedia.org...

I see, thanks for the info.

I fail to see how this discounts parts of my article. Just because these things were true doesn't mean Hussein didn't turn into an enemy and so on.
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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11/13/2012 3:45:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 3:33:06 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 11/13/2012 3:27:01 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 11/13/2012 3:02:17 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 11/13/2012 2:59:52 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 11/13/2012 2:45:55 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Wait, what? I don't even recognize this...

What are you trying to tell me exactly?

Yeah it's understandable cause it's been while since you posted it. Your article "Why the US can't leave the middle east" I commented on it, never got a response. I presented these facts, which disprove many of the points in your article. I just really want to hear what you have to say about them, since I thought we could have a really interesting discussion... although to be honest at first I just got pissed off at some of the assertions int he article. But in any case...

Oh I see, I see.

Well, can you source where you got that the US rigged the Lebanese election? I couldn't find anything.

Also, can you source where the State department said Saddam Hussein was our ally?

I'm honestly curious.

Sure thing.

Lebanon-

"Lebanon had a relatively free parliamentary democracy 1943-1956. In 1957, I have been told by a former US government official, the US CIA intervened covertly in the Lebanese elections to ensure that the Lebanese constitution would be amended to allow far-right Maronite President Camille Chamoun (1952-1958) to have a second term." -http://www.juancole.com...

Saddam Hussein-

"The U.S. provided critical battle planning assistance at a time when U.S. intelligence agencies knew that Iraqi commanders would employ chemical weapons in waging the war, according to senior military officers with direct knowledge of the program. The U.S. carried out this covert program at a time when Secretary of State George P. Shultz, United States Secretary of Defense Frank C. Carlucci and National Security Adviser General Colin L. Powell were publicly condemning Iraq for its use of poison gas, especially after Iraq attacked Kurdish villagers in Halabja in March 1988. U.S. officials publicly condemned Iraq's employment of mustard gas, sarin, VX and other poisonous agents, but sixty Defense Intelligence Agency officers were secretly providing detailed information on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for airstrikes and bomb-damage assessments for Iraq. It has long been known that the U.S. provided intelligence assistance, such as satellite photography, to Saddam's regime.

Under the Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush administrations, the U.S. authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous dual use items that had both military and civilian applications, including chemicals which can be used in manufacturing of pesticides or chemical weapons and live viruses and bacteria, such as anthrax and bubonic plague used in medicine and the manufacture of vaccines or weaponized for use in biological weapons." -http://en.wikipedia.org...

I see, thanks for the info.

I fail to see how this discounts parts of my article. Just because these things were true doesn't mean Hussein didn't turn into an enemy and so on.

You mentioned the Lebanese civil war and the Iran-Iraq war as examples of instability in the Middle East that the US could prevent by asserting itself there, and I've shown that those two conflicts were caused and/or exacerbated by the US's presence. But I still thought it was an interesting article regardless.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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11/13/2012 6:44:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 4:05:47 PM, Mirza wrote:
I invite Mister ConservativePolitico to explain himself in this thread: http://debate.org...

No thanks. I posted a video for a reason.

WLC does a good job explaining why I don't like Islam. Allah doesn't extend forgiveness to everyone.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/13/2012 6:48:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 6:44:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
No thanks. I posted a video for a reason.
Because you can't substantiate your arguments. Or, other people's arguments. Good to know! (And Ma'am, if you only watch videos -- watch Shabir Ally take on WLC in a debate. Quite crushing. Enjoy.)
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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11/13/2012 10:03:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 6:48:01 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/13/2012 6:44:42 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
No thanks. I posted a video for a reason.
Because you can't substantiate your arguments. Or, other people's arguments. Good to know! (And Ma'am, if you only watch videos -- watch Shabir Ally take on WLC in a debate. Quite crushing. Enjoy.)

No actually it's because I don't feel like dealing with people. I find them to be quite irritating. Especially on religion. Even if I proved to you beyond any shadow of a doubt you were wrong you'd fight to the death saying you weren't. Why argue? I wasn't here to argue. Gracious.