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Question about Judging

OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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11/12/2012 1:15:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
If debater A misstates facts or misrepresents concepts and debater B doesn't catch him on it, does that impact your judgment whatsoever? So I guess I'm asking whether you judge the debate like its a street fight (no outside rules, anything goes) or a boxing match?
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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11/12/2012 1:44:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
That's an important question and one I've struggled with. I enjoy voting on debates and challenge myself to be as objective as possible. At the same time, I can't (or choose not to, I suppose) 'turn off my brain' when judging. In other words, I try to evaluate arguments and rebuttals based as much as possible on in-debate material, but don't accept flawed logic just because the flaws weren't pointed out by someone.

This doesn't extend to subject matter so much as the presentation of material. It's an opponent's job to point out factual inaccuracies, so I won't penalize someone for presenting faulty evidence. It's the voter's job, though, to judge the soundness of the presented arguments, so I do penalize for illogical arguments or conclusions that don't follow.

To use your analogy, I guess I'd say I judge em' like boxing matches. I'm not just judging who is left standing, but who is left standing within the confines of certain expectations of sense and coherence.
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FREEDO
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11/12/2012 2:15:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
If they misstate a fact, no. As a judge, it's not my role to decide what is fact and base my vote off of that.

If their fact is derived from a logical fallacy, yes. That makes a mark against how convincing they are, whether or not the opponent caught it.

If their source does not support their fact or it is unreliable, yes.
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Stephen_Hawkins
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11/12/2012 12:56:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
No. I accept everything someone says as factual in an actual debate, unless I am given reason to doubt it, such as a criticism of the argument. Content is extremely important, then it is how strongly arguments are rebutted, then it is how convincingly the arguments are presented. Nothing else should make a massive difference.
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RyuuKyuzo
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11/12/2012 8:58:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
My philosophy on this topic is this; facts come second to skill. Ultimately, we are here to judge who debated the best, not who is right. It's not our job to debate on behalf of debater B when he comes short.
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ax123man
Posts: 317
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11/13/2012 12:31:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Do you apply the same logic to dropped arguments? Debater "A" proposes an argument, "B" drops it, and "A" doesn't mention it. Or the variant where "A" has no chance to mention it - it's the last round.
imabench
Posts: 21,215
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11/13/2012 12:57:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If I manage to find false information, which is rare, I do take it into consideration when I vote.

If the incorrect evidence significantly undermines their entire argument, then I would point it out in my RFD and possibly change my vote. If its an error that only discredits a more minor argument though, Ill let it go and overlook it.
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Zeph
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11/13/2012 12:59:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Personally, if there is a hole that is big enough in someones argument that JUDGE can notice it should be taken off. It is the debaters job to point out whether the opponent has a flawed argument or not, not the judges. That being said, you must consider two things, if this was a public debate, would it be blatantly obvious? And if it was, is it really that impactful to win or lose the debate?
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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11/13/2012 1:23:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 12:57:43 PM, imabench wrote:
If I manage to find false information, which is rare, I do take it into consideration when I vote.

If the incorrect evidence significantly undermines their entire argument, then I would point it out in my RFD and possibly change my vote. If its an error that only discredits a more minor argument though, Ill let it go and overlook it.

It's not really false info, I mean more like non-sequiturs and contradictions.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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11/13/2012 1:33:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The entire point of a debate is to judge the debater's ability to argue the resolution. The entire role of the ballot and the judge's decision is to decide who did the better job debating. If I propose an argument, and my opponent drops it, I can choose whether or not to capitalize on that and point out that he dropped it, or choose to let it go and use my time elsewhere. If an argument goes mutually dropped, and neither of them are arguing it, then I as the judge have no reason to look to it when making my decision as neither of them are extending it out as offense for their side. Likewise, if person A makes a fallacious argument and person B either misses it or chooses not to point it out, then I as the judge cannot step in and discount the argument because of the fallacy, as that wouldn't be judging the debate on who has done the better debating, but rather what side the judge thinks is correct. To allow the judge to step in and use arguments that were not made or not extended (or at least talked about round to round) is only an arbitrary application of judge intervention and is inherently unfair to the debaters.

So, in tl;dr form, the judge's job is to determine who did the better job debating, not who they believe is right.
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wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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11/13/2012 11:26:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/12/2012 1:15:47 AM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
If debater A misstates facts or misrepresents concepts and debater B doesn't catch him on it, does that impact your judgment whatsoever? So I guess I'm asking whether you judge the debate like its a street fight (no outside rules, anything goes) or a boxing match?

I rarely vote source points, but if someone misrepresents a source, I take judicial notice and vote source points against him.

Misrepresentations in the final round, or in a one-round debate, particularly in the last half of the final round, should also be subject to judicial notice.