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TrasguTravieso, I'm calling you out

Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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11/17/2012 10:57:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Man up and defend your RFD, since you were so adamant about wanting to debate me about it, yet backed out of it once I actually issued the challenge. If you believe that your RFD was as accurate as you say it was, then stop chickening out and accept the debate.

http://debate.org...

Otherwise, concede that your voting was crap and kindly never vote on a debate of mine again.
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MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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11/17/2012 11:01:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lol.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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11/17/2012 11:01:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/17/2012 10:57:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Man up and defend your RFD, since you were so adamant about wanting to debate me about it, yet backed out of it once I actually issued the challenge. If you believe that your RFD was as accurate as you say it was, then stop chickening out and accept the debate.

http://debate.org...

Otherwise, concede that your voting was crap and kindly never vote on a debate of mine again.

And airmax has promised to ban him or restrict his voting privileges if he does so, I presume?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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11/18/2012 1:38:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/17/2012 11:01:47 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 11/17/2012 10:57:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Man up and defend your RFD, since you were so adamant about wanting to debate me about it, yet backed out of it once I actually issued the challenge. If you believe that your RFD was as accurate as you say it was, then stop chickening out and accept the debate.

http://debate.org...

Otherwise, concede that your voting was crap and kindly never vote on a debate of mine again.

And airmax has promised to ban him or restrict his voting privileges if he does so, I presume?

What is this I don't even...
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imabench
Posts: 21,230
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11/18/2012 1:39:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/17/2012 11:01:47 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 11/17/2012 10:57:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Man up and defend your RFD, since you were so adamant about wanting to debate me about it, yet backed out of it once I actually issued the challenge. If you believe that your RFD was as accurate as you say it was, then stop chickening out and accept the debate.

http://debate.org...

Otherwise, concede that your voting was crap and kindly never vote on a debate of mine again.

And airmax has promised to ban him or restrict his voting privileges if he does so, I presume?

Its not a votebomb thing its just a sh*tty rfd thing.
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TrasguTravieso
Posts: 93
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11/18/2012 6:00:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
My dear boy, you are an insistent little troll, aren't you? Let's go through this chronologically for those who do not want to go through the profile and debate comments:

3 days ago: I voted on the socialism debate, awarding Zaradi sources and his opponent both conduct and arguments. I gave my reasons for this in the vote and in the comments: http://debate.org...

2 days ago: Zaradi requests I explain my vote. I do, saying "As for the argument points, that one took me a while to decide. Most of the debate centers on criticism of form and, where it did go into anything of substance, did not dedicate much time to it. I ended up focusing on the first round, where actual arguments seemed to be given, and even though pro's arguments were merely the standard argument and not too compellingly put at that, I'm afraid that such assertions as: " Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations", "Socialism creates an egalitarian society" or "Socialism would end poverty" really needed to be more substantiated."

Later that same day Zaradi offers a debate if I didn't "see you [my] vote is completely idiotic". I answer accepting if he rephrased the resolution. He in turn answers with a rather long tirade which he then summarizes "In short (tl;dr version), your vote sucks, you don't know how to evaluate arguments or how to accurately and how to vote in a non-biased manner, so stay the hell away from the rest of my debates, since I don't feel like letting you try to screw with me anymore."

To this I answered reminding him I had accepted his debate should he like to continue and defended myself against accusations of bias reminding him I am actually opposed to both positions in that particular debate (the capitalistic and the socialist) and so am equally biased against both. He in turn continued claiming he required proof that I was worth his time before he allowed me to accept his challenge to a debate.

I answer the following: "Your refusal to go ahead and send the challenge however, is increasingly convincing me that you are not worth mine. If the next thing I see is a challenge "Resolved: Trasgu's vote on Zaradi's socialism debate was wrong/stupid/unfair/biased" or something along those lines, I may take it. If what I see is yet another comment about how you would most probably win that debate and are just above wasting your time on it, I will laugh at this rather odd kid I found on the internet and go on to far more interesting things. Like a documentary I would like to watch on the many varieties of flies in the common farm. Fascinating."

Zaradi did not send a challenge, but rather asked me to answer his questions in the comments. I obliged, and now feel no obligation to continue justifying myself further.

Yesterday: Zaradi challenges me to the debate. http://www.debate.org...
I decline.

13 hours ago: Zaradi insists, reinstating the challenge. I decline again, explaining why and leaving a comment on the debate likewise explaining the reasons.
Later, Zaradi also leaves a comment restating his grievances.

11 hours ago: Zaradi once again challenges me to a debate. I decline again, and block him in order to avoid further annoyance.

6 hours ago: Zaradi comments the debate claiming I never had the intention to debate him. Also he exhorts me to "man up." Um....

1 hour ago: I give Zaradi the chance to convince me this is not the waste of time it seems to be:

"Prove to me it is worth my while.

All I see is a child whining about someone disagreeing with him and wanting to argue about it. At first a light-hearted meta debate sounded like an entertaining proposition. I agreed to the debate you proposed. Instead of sending the debate you decided to continue posting comments on my profile, most of which were as antagonistic as your original debate (no surprise I took conduct points away). I answered telling you I would still be game to waste my time in order to honor my original commitment if you sent the challenge immediately rather than continue acting like a two year old. You decided you would rather rail against the injustice of the world a little longer and I truly lost interest.

There is nothing in this debate that promises me anything.
1 I have nothing to prove to you; I do not know you and from your troll-like behavior you have forfeited even the general courtesy I extend anyone I interact with electronically or in person.
2. The debate has no entertainment value for me; I made a vote according to my judgment of the debate. I have already explained the reasons in the required comments, in the comments section of the very debate in question and on your profile at your behest. Any more seems unnecessary and repetitive.
3. To enter a child's fray is really bellow me; I have long since left pre-school. Exhortations to "man up" not "be a chicken", asking whether or not I "have cold feet" or "nanny-nanny-boo boo" don't strike me as strong enough arguments to move me to waste my time.

If you can show me this will be a better use of my time than, say, working on developing my company, studying, going to adoration or reading a book on economic theory (activities which compete with debating on this site) then I will consider it. As it is, I am not dedicating this more time than it takes to write this message."


About 10 minutes ago: I now see this forum and the public nature of it makes me go back on my intention not to waste more time on the issue. I have now explained myself more than is necessary by any standard.

If Zaradi has a problem with my vote he is welcome to take it up with the moderators who will do as they see fit. I, for my part, am done with the issue.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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11/18/2012 1:28:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/18/2012 6:00:36 AM, TrasguTravieso wrote:
My dear boy, you are an insistent little troll, aren't you?

As insistent a troll as you are insistently a bad voter.

Let's go through this chronologically for those who do not want to go through the profile and debate comments:

3 days ago: I voted on the socialism debate, awarding Zaradi sources and his opponent both conduct and arguments. I gave my reasons for this in the vote and in the comments: http://debate.org...

2 days ago: Zaradi requests I explain my vote. I do, saying "As for the argument points, that one took me a while to decide. Most of the debate centers on criticism of form and, where it did go into anything of substance, did not dedicate much time to it. I ended up focusing on the first round,

While ignoring my actual refutations to the first round, yet seemingly is 'non-biased'.

where actual arguments that he likes to look at seemed to be given,

Fixed.

and even though pro's arguments were merely the standard argument and not too compellingly put at that, I'm afraid that such assertions as: " Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations", "Socialism creates an egalitarian society" or "Socialism would end poverty" really needed to be more substantiated."

Yet ignores a) all of my refutation to my opponent's points, and b) the rest of the points that I made in my case that were not that unwarranted, none of which my opponent touched on.

Later that same day Zaradi offers a debate if I didn't "see you [my] vote is completely idiotic". I answer accepting if he rephrased the resolution.

That's a generous summarization, considering I had asked you to answer a few specific questions to your RFD and you totally dodged them.

He in turn answers with a rather long tirade which he then summarizes "In short (tl;dr version), your vote sucks, you don't know how to evaluate arguments or how to accurately and how to vote in a non-biased manner, so stay the hell away from the rest of my debates, since I don't feel like letting you try to screw with me anymore."

To this I answered reminding him I had accepted his debate should he like to continue and defended myself against accusations of bias reminding him I am actually opposed to both positions in that particular debate (the capitalistic and the socialist) and so am equally biased against both. He in turn continued claiming he required proof that I was worth his time before he allowed me to accept his challenge to a debate.

I answer the following: "Your refusal to go ahead and send the challenge however, is increasingly convincing me that you are not worth mine. If the next thing I see is a challenge "Resolved: Trasgu's vote on Zaradi's socialism debate was wrong/stupid/unfair/biased" or something along those lines, I may take it. If what I see is yet another comment about how you would most probably win that debate and are just above wasting your time on it, I will laugh at this rather odd kid I found on the internet and go on to far more interesting things. Like a documentary I would like to watch on the many varieties of flies in the common farm. Fascinating."

Zaradi did not send a challenge, but rather asked me to answer his questions in the comments like any other normal person who wanted to verify that you actually have a reason. I obliged

And I then challenged them. If you really believed your vote was correct beyond the shadow of a doubt as you seem to think it is, you would have absolutely no problem taking me up in a debate, as you would be guaranteed to win.

, and now feel no obligation to continue justifying myself further.

Yesterday: Zaradi challenges me to the debate. http://www.debate.org...
I decline.

13 hours ago: Zaradi insists, reinstating the challenge. I decline again, explaining why and leaving a comment on the debate likewise explaining the reasons.
Later, Zaradi also leaves a comment restating his grievances.

11 hours ago: Zaradi once again challenges me to a debate. I decline again, and block him in order to avoid further annoyance.

6 hours ago: Zaradi comments the debate claiming I never had the intention to debate him. Also he exhorts me to "man up." Um....

1 hour ago: I give Zaradi the chance to convince me this is not the waste of time it seems to be:

"Prove to me it is worth my while.

All I see is a child whining about someone disagreeing with him and wanting to argue about it. At first a light-hearted meta debate sounded like an entertaining proposition. I agreed to the debate you proposed. Instead of sending the debate you decided to continue posting comments on my profile, most of which were as antagonistic as your original debate (no surprise I took conduct points away). I answered telling you I would still be game to waste my time in order to honor my original commitment if you sent the challenge immediately rather than continue acting like a two year old. You decided you would rather rail against the injustice of the world a little longer and I truly lost interest.

There is nothing in this debate that promises me anything.
1 I have nothing to prove to you; I do not know you and from your troll-like behavior you have forfeited even the general courtesy I extend anyone I interact with electronically or in person.

You also have nothing to lose to me. You're confident that your vote was correct, but not confident enough to actually defend it in a formal debate? I smell bullsh*t.

2. The debate has no entertainment value for me; I made a vote according to my judgment of the debate. I have already explained the reasons in the required comments, in the comments section of the very debate in question and on your profile at your behest. Any more seems unnecessary and repetitive.

Actually, it would have endless entertainment value for you. You've been railing on about how I'm just "a little insistent troll" and if your vote was as correct as you're saying it is, you should have no problem putting me in my place, which would (or at least should) bring you amusement.
3. To enter a child's fray is really bellow me; I have long since left pre-school. Exhortations to "man up" not "be a chicken", asking whether or not I "have cold feet" or "nanny-nanny-boo boo" don't strike me as strong enough arguments to move me to waste my time.

But you wouldn't need to waste your time! You'd be ending this here and now and not letting the petty insults drag on and on. You'd probably be wasting more time making this long, rambling post than actually debating me over it. So if you were really so interested in saving time, you'd accept the challenge from me.

But alas, it's all just a show.

If you can show me this will be a better use of my time than, say, working on developing my company, studying, going to adoration or reading a book on economic theory (activities which compete with debating on this site) then I will consider it. As it is, I am not dedicating this more time than it takes to write this message."


About 10 minutes ago: I now see this forum and the public nature of it makes me go back on my intention not to waste more time on the issue. I have now explained myself more than is necessary by any standard.

And yet refuse to actually take the debate! Or, moreover, you still refuse to answer my questions as to how my refutations against his arguments are insufficient and why my unaddressed arguments were not sufficient.

If Zaradi has a problem with my vote he is welcome to take it up with the moderators who will do as they see fit. I, for my part, am done with the issue.

Y
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Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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11/18/2012 1:35:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So, in short since I ran out of characters, Trasgu was interested in justifying himself in a debate, just not over the comments. Once he divulged piss-poor reasoning over the comments, he lost all interest in backing up that reasoning in a debate (surprise surprise, it was bad reasoning. Who wants to defend bad reasoning?).

Moreover, he has continued to dodge my questions as to how my refutations against my opponent's case were insufficient to negate my opponent's arguments, especially considering the fact that my opponent never responded to those arguments.

Furthermore, he has continued to dodge my questions about how my own case, which had plenty more arguments than the three my opponent listed that are more warranted than his cherry-picked examples, which went completely unrefuted, was insufficient to win, especially considering that I had refuted, if not at least attempted to refute, my opponent's case.

The only reasoning he ever provided was that "he didn't like the arguments I ran" or that "he didn't think my arguments were warranted enough (using the three aforementioned examples)", yet when I ask him to defend those reasons he simply says "I'm wasting my time, shoo shoo!".

TrasguTravieso, if you're not willing to defend yourself against questioning, just insisting that you're correct and that I'm wrong and a little troll for questioning your all-mighty authority, then you really have no place here.

I await your acceptance of my debate challenge.
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