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"If you ..." part two

Logical-Master
Posts: 2,538
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10/8/2009 10:37:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
This thread is not or the incredibly squeamish or feint of heart. Leave now if such applies to you.

Lets say there is a deranged murderer on the loose who is out to kill the person (or one of the people) you care about the most. Your loved one has been told to remain in a certain location until the murderer has been caught. It just so happens that you're one of the people who know of this location and the deranged murderer somehow learns that you have this knowledge. In a surprising turn of events, the murderer subdues you, ties you up and has you at his mercy in his lair. He then proceeds to initiate the most painful form of torture you can think of (for those who have no imagination, here are some good examples of painful torture: http://www.medieval-castles.org... ).

Your only means of stopping the torture is to sell out your loved one and reveal his/her location. Also, even if you do reveal it, it is guaranteed that the murderer will be successful. Furthermore, the killer has assured that you cannot simply bite your tongue in attempt to kill yourself. He is also determined to go through his best efforts to assure that none of the torture actually kills you.

What would you do? Sell out your loved one to stop the pain or bear all the torture you are submitted to?
Logical-Master
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10/8/2009 10:40:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 10:37:51 PM, Logical-Master wrote:
This thread is not for the incredibly squeamish or feint of heart. Leave now if either characteristic applies to you.

Edited
Maikuru
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10/8/2009 10:43:44 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I'll play along and assume I can't give him a false location or something along those lines ("She's in the police station!).

It's easy to say I'd take the torture and pray for unconsciousness, but who here really knows what their true reaction would be under that kind of pain? I come from a long line of quitters (Seinfeld reference...anyone?) so there's a possibility there that the very thought of such pain would be enough for me to throw in the towel. Then again, I was constantly tormented as a kid and as a latino, I do have something of a reputation to uphold.

As long as nothing would be severed or permanently damaged, I'd likely try to hold out. However, if limbs were being removed and things of that nature...the outcome may be bleak for my loved one.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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10/8/2009 10:45:56 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Also, even if you do reveal it
Shouldn't this be even if you don't?

E.g. even if you don't give the location, the murderer will successfully kill the loved one?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Logical-Master
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10/8/2009 10:48:53 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 10:45:56 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Also, even if you do reveal it
Shouldn't this be even if you don't?

E.g. even if you don't give the location, the murderer will successfully kill the loved one?

No. If that were the case, there would be no need for the murderer to torture you. Heck, it wouldn't matter if you did reveal in that case since the murderer would be successful regardless. The murderer is only successful if you give him/her the proper location.
Logical-Master
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10/8/2009 10:50:59 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 10:43:44 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I'll play along and assume I can't give him a false location or something along those lines ("She's in the police station!).

Yes, please don't do that. I realize that if you think hard enough, there are other ways out of that situation. That's not the point of the question though. :D
leet4A1
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10/9/2009 12:41:01 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Tough question man. I'd like to think I wouldn't sell out my "loved one", but who knows what you'd do in that situation.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

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Puck
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10/9/2009 12:49:54 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Pick a suitably remote location requiring both extended flight and away from major traffic to enable at least time to escape. Or if the location is too hard to follow as word of mouth it would require the killer to take you along as guide allowing for opportunity to spoil/escape/notify.
Ragnar_Rahl
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10/9/2009 9:21:59 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/8/2009 10:48:53 PM, Logical-Master wrote:
At 10/8/2009 10:45:56 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Also, even if you do reveal it
Shouldn't this be even if you don't?

E.g. even if you don't give the location, the murderer will successfully kill the loved one?

No. If that were the case, there would be no need for the murderer to torture you.
Then why is it "Even if?" There's no surprise to that, nothing that merits the "even if" descriptor, no continuation of something that would have happened anyway. "Even if x" implies that x produces the same consequence as non-x.

In that case, torture away. I don't have a loved one at present, but if I did, and I needed to become a masochist, I can do that :P.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Danielle
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10/9/2009 10:35:03 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/9/2009 12:22:08 AM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Reveal the position (though probably a false one). I don't have anyone that I love enough for me to endure torture.

I do. I really don't think that I would be able to give up the position. Of course I can't say for CERTAIN, but I'm nearly certain that I would rather just endure the pain. I'm squeamish as hell, so it's good chance that I'll just pass out and/or die (hopefully the latter) before giving up her position. And FYI I'm not just saying this for bonus points to get laid. I really don't think I could live with myself if I were ever responsible for her death, so if I die, whatevs. Also, the more I hold out, the better the chance that I could get out of the situation (say the police catching on... or something).
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JBlake
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10/9/2009 2:07:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/9/2009 12:49:54 AM, Puck wrote:
Pick a suitably remote location requiring both extended flight and away from major traffic to enable at least time to escape. Or if the location is too hard to follow as word of mouth it would require the killer to take you along as guide allowing for opportunity to spoil/escape/notify.

This.

But since this response isn't in the spirit of the question, I'll assume that even that will not ultimately be successful. I'd love to say that I would hold out all the way to the end (at least for a few people, not most). However, I probably would not.

Like others have said: the real answer to this question cannot be known until/unless it actually happened.
Kleptin
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10/9/2009 2:17:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Bear the torture. I would bear the torture because I know that I won't die. If it's a given that I'll remain alive, then there's a chance that I can escape. I'll ramble on and on about all the locations I know, so that even if I accidentally reveal the location in my deluded and painful state, I'll keep her location hidden.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Puck
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10/9/2009 2:37:07 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/9/2009 2:07:23 PM, JBlake wrote:
At 10/9/2009 12:49:54 AM, Puck wrote:
Pick a suitably remote location requiring both extended flight and away from major traffic to enable at least time to escape. Or if the location is too hard to follow as word of mouth it would require the killer to take you along as guide allowing for opportunity to spoil/escape/notify.

This.

But since this response isn't in the spirit of the question, I'll assume that even that will not ultimately be successful. I'd love to say that I would hold out all the way to the end (at least for a few people, not most). However, I probably would not.

Like others have said: the real answer to this question cannot be known until/unless it actually happened.

In that case argue against the usage - if I'm being tortured I'm more likely to give a false to end the torture/save my wife, and anything I say can't be held as truth.