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Tied" votes should count

truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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11/25/2012 1:40:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm going to give a simple hypothetical analogy:

case A:

100 people vote 95 vote tie 5 vote pro

the score is 15-0

Case B:

5 people vote, and they all vote pro

the score is 15 - 0

In case B pro did better than case A. / In case A Con did better than case B.

But they both get have the same score.

Theoretically, there should be some formula/algorithm to take "Tie" votes into account.
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phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/25/2012 1:47:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It doesn't matter if he did better or not. The only way points should matter is if he did good enough. If he got ties, he didn't do good enough. In both cases, he did not perform well enough.
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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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11/25/2012 3:41:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is one reason DDO should use the Elo rating system. Let's say a debate gets voted on between you and RoyLatham (one of the site's best debaters), and the score results in a 23-23 point tie. Your Elo rating should increase and Roy's should decrease.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/25/2012 4:05:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Many troll debates or debates that people want to do without having the pressure of winning end in ties. Making them count forces us to discount those scenarios.
phantom
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11/25/2012 5:07:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 3:41:05 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
This is one reason DDO should use the Elo rating system. Let's say a debate gets voted on between you and RoyLatham (one of the site's best debaters), and the score results in a 23-23 point tie. Your Elo rating should increase and Roy's should decrease.

Ties don't and shouldn't count.
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phantom
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11/25/2012 5:08:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 5:07:52 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/25/2012 3:41:05 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
This is one reason DDO should use the Elo rating system. Let's say a debate gets voted on between you and RoyLatham (one of the site's best debaters), and the score results in a 23-23 point tie. Your Elo rating should increase and Roy's should decrease.

Ties don't and shouldn't count.

(In Elo)
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
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11/25/2012 5:11:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 4:05:24 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Many troll debates or debates that people want to do without having the pressure of winning end in ties. Making them count forces us to discount those scenarios.

This. And I have a few debates where my opponent forfeited every round but it ended in a tie because I didn't post it in the ff thread. There are a lot of debates like that especially considering a lot of people don't know about the thread. It would skew the rankings significantly.
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Wallstreetatheist
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11/26/2012 2:36:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/25/2012 5:07:52 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/25/2012 3:41:05 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
This is one reason DDO should use the Elo rating system. Let's say a debate gets voted on between you and RoyLatham (one of the site's best debaters), and the score results in a 23-23 point tie. Your Elo rating should increase and Roy's should decrease.

Ties don't and shouldn't count.

Ties do count and they should count for good reason.

Let's say you have RoyLatham with an Elo of 2500 and a n00b with an Elo of 500 debating. Let's say the voting period ends with a non-zero tie at like 17-17, the n00b gets the points in the Elo system (because of calculations that you can do here: http://bzstats.strayer.de...) and should get the points, because RoyLatham is the expected winner of that debate based on his rating by almost 1.0 probability. If it is a tie, that means the n00b outperformed the expectation tremendously. Again, you can test this on the site I've provided or work the equation out by hand. To further confirm it, you can play a game that ends in a draw/stalemate on chess.com and observe the subsequent flow of points.
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phantom
Posts: 6,774
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11/26/2012 2:58:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 2:36:21 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 11/25/2012 5:07:52 PM, phantom wrote:
At 11/25/2012 3:41:05 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
This is one reason DDO should use the Elo rating system. Let's say a debate gets voted on between you and RoyLatham (one of the site's best debaters), and the score results in a 23-23 point tie. Your Elo rating should increase and Roy's should decrease.

Ties don't and shouldn't count.

Ties do count and they should count for good reason.

Let's say you have RoyLatham with an Elo of 2500 and a n00b with an Elo of 500 debating. Let's say the voting period ends with a non-zero tie at like 17-17, the n00b gets the points in the Elo system (because of calculations that you can do here: http://bzstats.strayer.de...) and should get the points, because RoyLatham is the expected winner of that debate based on his rating by almost 1.0 probability. If it is a tie, that means the n00b outperformed the expectation tremendously. Again, you can test this on the site I've provided or work the equation out by hand. To further confirm it, you can play a game that ends in a draw/stalemate on chess.com and observe the subsequent flow of points.

OreEle's confirmed that ties aren't taken into account. He must use a different version to normal Elo.

And they definitely shouldn't count for reasons Royal said and I stated earlier. A large amount of debates end up with one side forfeiting the whole debate and then it ends in a draw since no one sees the debate. I've had a couple like that. My Elo score would suffer just because two complete noobs forfeited the whole debate and I didn't post it in the forfeit thread. That seems drastically unfair.
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imabench
Posts: 21,230
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11/26/2012 3:01:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Am I the only one here who thinks that this guy wants tied debates to count JUST so that he can boost his win percentage up from 5.89%?
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/26/2012 5:44:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/26/2012 3:01:27 AM, imabench wrote:
Am I the only one here who thinks that this guy wants tied debates to count JUST so that he can boost his win percentage up from 5.89%?

lol