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8,000 Characters

DoctorDeku
Posts: 162
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12/30/2012 11:08:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It seems like the only way some-one is going to vote on a debate in this community is if you ask them to, the round is a forfeit or one of the voters' friends is in the debate. It seems unlikely that one will just randomly vote on a debate just for the debaters' benefit.
This is made worse by the fact that most of the debates on this site allow 8,000 characters to be used in a given round. That just seems a bit excessive to me, and I don't think debaters really need that much space to promote an intelligent discourse.

For a casual online community like this this current standard just seems like too much reading to do in one sitting. I had to copy and past a debate into Microsoft Word the other day because the debate wouldn't show properly, and all of the rounds ended up being 27 pages long. This was a debate posted in the unvoted/votebomb thread that still had zero votes after several days of being posted. Given it was a five round debate, but even debates with three rounds of argumentation end up totaling about 18 pages.

I suggest that instead of having such long debates, we as a community actively work to have debates with fewer max character counts. I'm personally fond of utilizing 4000 characters for a debate with four rounds of argumentation. It offers enough clash so that all the biggest issues of the debate to surface while preventing a huge wall of text to keep one from voting. with only a maximum of 32,000 characters the rounds would be an easy read and encourage the community to vote more.

If there isn't a community I can sink my teeth into here I don't know how long this website will hold my interest; I think that these are problems which can be fixed.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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12/30/2012 11:17:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/30/2012 11:08:38 AM, DoctorDeku wrote:
It seems like the only way some-one is going to vote on a debate in this community is if you ask them to, the round is a forfeit or one of the voters' friends is in the debate. It seems unlikely that one will just randomly vote on a debate just for the debaters' benefit.

If it seems that way, its not. A good handful of debates get votes even if you dont promote them, and extended voting periods also help, but admittedly only a few lucky debates get votes without being promoted...

This is made worse by the fact that most of the debates on this site allow 8,000 characters to be used in a given round. That just seems a bit excessive to me, and I don't think debaters really need that much space to promote an intelligent discourse.

Youd be surprised... A lot of topics require a lot of arguments and a lot of space to make them, and many times it only strengthens the quality of the debate.

For a casual online community like this this current standard just seems like too much reading to do in one sitting. I had to copy and past a debate into Microsoft Word the other day because the debate wouldn't show properly, and all of the rounds ended up being 27 pages long.

You can reduce the font size to fix that if you wanted.....

This was a debate posted in the unvoted/votebomb thread that still had zero votes after several days of being posted. Given it was a five round debate, but even debates with three rounds of argumentation end up totaling about 18 pages.

I suggest that instead of having such long debates, we as a community actively work to have debates with fewer max character counts. I'm personally fond of utilizing 4000 characters for a debate with four rounds of argumentation.

Then you do that, why does everyone else have to adapt their debates to the convenience of others?

It offers enough clash so that all the biggest issues of the debate to surface while preventing a huge wall of text to keep one from voting. with only a maximum of 32,000 characters the rounds would be an easy read and encourage the community to vote more.

If there isn't a community I can sink my teeth into here I don't know how long this website will hold my interest; I think that these are problems which can be fixed.
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Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
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DoctorDeku
Posts: 162
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12/30/2012 11:35:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/30/2012 11:17:13 AM, imabench wrote:
At 12/30/2012 11:08:38 AM, DoctorDeku wrote:
It seems like the only way some-one is going to vote on a debate in this community is if you ask them to, the round is a forfeit or one of the voters' friends is in the debate. It seems unlikely that one will just randomly vote on a debate just for the debaters' benefit.

If it seems that way, its not. A good handful of debates get votes even if you dont promote them, and extended voting periods also help, but admittedly only a few lucky debates get votes without being promoted...

The fact is that a lot still don't. There my be a few debates that get votes even without advertisement but that doesn't mean that a lot of debates will end with no votes.

This is made worse by the fact that most of the debates on this site allow 8,000 characters to be used in a given round. That just seems a bit excessive to me, and I don't think debaters really need that much space to promote an intelligent discourse.

Youd be surprised... A lot of topics require a lot of arguments and a lot of space to make them, and many times it only strengthens the quality of the debate.

why not just have multiple debates then? Judging becomes a hassle when debater insist on covering a entire debate topic's history in a single round.
For a casual online community like this this current standard just seems like too much reading to do in one sitting. I had to copy and past a debate into Microsoft Word the other day because the debate wouldn't show properly, and all of the rounds ended up being 27 pages long.

You can reduce the font size to fix that if you wanted.....

That doesn't reduce the length. I read it on the computer but that's a sixths of a 200 page book.
This was a debate posted in the unvoted/votebomb thread that still had zero votes after several days of being posted. Given it was a five round debate, but even debates with three rounds of argumentation end up totaling about 18 pages.

I suggest that instead of having such long debates, we as a community actively work to have debates with fewer max character counts. I'm personally fond of utilizing 4000 characters for a debate with four rounds of argumentation.

Then you do that, why does everyone else have to adapt their debates to the convenience of others?

Why are you making such a defensive response. I intend to do that, but why shouldn't I share this idea with the community?
It offers enough clash so that all the biggest issues of the debate to surface while preventing a huge wall of text to keep one from voting. with only a maximum of 32,000 characters the rounds would be an easy read and encourage the community to vote more.

If there isn't a community I can sink my teeth into here I don't know how long this website will hold my interest; I think that these are problems which can be fixed.
Stupidwalrus
Posts: 20
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12/30/2012 3:41:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The very few debates I do, I do with 8000 characters only. This is because I really don't care if people vote on them - I do them for my own benefits. There are some debates in which 8000 characters is necessary to cover the major issues, and limiting the characters prevents these debates from reaching their maximum potential.

Scrolling through your debates, I noticed you haven't participated in a debate which really requires 8k characters. Granted, I really haven't either, but look through the debates of some of the top ranking debaters and you'll see 8k characters is sometimes necessary. http://www.debate.org... comes to mind.
DoctorDeku
Posts: 162
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12/30/2012 7:48:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/30/2012 3:41:21 PM, Stupidwalrus wrote:
The very few debates I do, I do with 8000 characters only. This is because I really don't care if people vote on them - I do them for my own benefits. There are some debates in which 8000 characters is necessary to cover the major issues, and limiting the characters prevents these debates from reaching their maximum potential.

Scrolling through your debates, I noticed you haven't participated in a debate which really requires 8k characters. Granted, I really haven't either, but look through the debates of some of the top ranking debaters and you'll see 8k characters is sometimes necessary. http://www.debate.org... comes to mind.

I guess I can understand that if this website is just a means to an end, but I'd really like to think of it in a deeper context; this community has some really bright people and I'd like to encourage the growth of that.

At 12/30/2012 3:57:14 PM, Koopin wrote:
What are debates?

I think it's some kind of taco sauce.
Ike-Jin-Park
Posts: 27
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12/31/2012 10:46:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
For some reason, Round 2,3 and 4 for almost all my debates have 8K characters. In many cases, I also had to delete some connecting sentences to meet the limit. Did you know DoctorDeku, you can limit character spaces for each debate?
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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1/1/2013 12:15:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/30/2012 3:57:14 PM, Koopin wrote:
What are debates?

KFC
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
DoctorDeku
Posts: 162
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1/1/2013 1:10:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/31/2012 10:46:27 PM, Ike-Jin-Park wrote:
For some reason, Round 2,3 and 4 for almost all my debates have 8K characters. In many cases, I also had to delete some connecting sentences to meet the limit. Did you know DoctorDeku, you can limit character spaces for each debate?

Yes, that was the point of this post. I think that it would be a good idea to start using 4000 characters a round instead of 8000.