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The_Chaos_Heart

DoctorDeku
Posts: 162
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1/6/2013 12:03:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am posting this here so that a record may be made for future reference.
I gave conduct to Con on this debate-
http://www.debate.org...

On the grounds that Pro accepted the debate and didn't even try to argue. Pro called my character into question and claimed my vote was a vote bomb here-
http://debate.org...

Finally The_Chaos_Heart and I exchanged a series of PMs in which she repeatedly insulted my intelligence, character and intentions. The screenshots of which are here-
http://imgur.com...

At this point the entirety of my vote has been countered, and my right express myself has been violated. I have nothing more to say on this matter as it has become increasingly apparent that my right to speak will not be respected.

I will now start packing my things to go back to school, something I should have been doing all morning, and will leave this up to the community of DDO. If I am indeed denied my right to express myself, I will leave this community.

I am highly disapoint at the conduct The_Chaos_Heart, but realize that this does not reflect the beliefs and community standards of DDO as a whole; but I cannot be a part of a debate community that does not value the sanctity of a judge's vote. It is not acceptable to chock a vote one does not agree with up to be a 'votebomb' and I will not turn a blind eye to this.

I hope this community will support me, but if not -- it's be fun.
RationalMadman
Posts: 354
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1/6/2013 12:21:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I've been votebombed against many times and lost because of it. I don't whine about it. Then again that majority of this site would so the chaos heart is just mimicking the self righteous elitism apparent in DDO.
The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

We didn't fight our way to the top of the food chain to be f***ng vegetarians.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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1/6/2013 12:33:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Your vote was unfair.

You say he deserved to lose the conduct point. I agree, but it's not your choice entirely. The fact that the pro was gracious to let it be a tie, overrides your freedom to chose that it not end in a tie. You feel that the debate should end one way but it's the two debaters who are doing the debate. They control it. That's how it works. When they come into mutual agreement over something, the debate should go that way. Your say doesn't outweigh theirs. Why would it exactly?

I think that's rather obvious. Seems a bit hasty to leave the site over it, and I'm sure the majority of members will disagree with you.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
RationalMadman
Posts: 354
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1/6/2013 12:35:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 12:33:46 PM, phantom wrote:
Your vote was unfair.

You say he deserved to lose the conduct point. I agree, but it's not your choice entirely. The fact that the pro was gracious to let it be a tie, overrides your freedom to chose that it not end in a tie. You feel that the debate should end one way but it's the two debaters who are doing the debate. They control it. That's how it works. When they come into mutual agreement over something, the debate should go that way. Your say doesn't outweigh theirs. Why would it exactly?

I think that's rather obvious. Seems a bit hasty to leave the site over it, and I'm sure the majority of members will disagree with you.

Of course they would I already said why.
The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

We didn't fight our way to the top of the food chain to be f***ng vegetarians.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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1/6/2013 12:42:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 12:35:50 PM, RationalMadman wrote:
At 1/6/2013 12:33:46 PM, phantom wrote:
Your vote was unfair.

You say he deserved to lose the conduct point. I agree, but it's not your choice entirely. The fact that the pro was gracious to let it be a tie, overrides your freedom to chose that it not end in a tie. You feel that the debate should end one way but it's the two debaters who are doing the debate. They control it. That's how it works. When they come into mutual agreement over something, the debate should go that way. Your say doesn't outweigh theirs. Why would it exactly?

I think that's rather obvious. Seems a bit hasty to leave the site over it, and I'm sure the majority of members will disagree with you.

Of course they would I already said why.

I don't usually pay attention to nonsense about self-righteous elitism.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Stupidwalrus
Posts: 20
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1/6/2013 12:47:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I can definitely agree with you that people calling your character into question is unnecessary, and shouldn't have happened.

However, I agree with every single thing that phantom said. We're not voting against you because "we don't agree with your vote," we're doing it because you blatantly ignored the debate. Ignoring a mutual agreement that was reached within the debate isn't too far off from just ignoring an argument made and voting off of that.

You're not being denied the right to express yourself, and no one is ignoring the "sanctity of a judge's vote." I hope that you do not leave, but if you did, it would be entirely for the wrong reasons.
The_Chaos_Heart
Posts: 404
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1/6/2013 12:49:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
People, I have criticized Deku of throwing a tantrum for not getting their way, and I think this post is the epitome of that criticism. Observe the following:

1) DoctorDeku seeks to read a debate he hopes he finds interesting.
2) When he discovers that the debate is not just uninteresting, but non-existent, he gets frustrated, and despite the wishes of myself and my opponent, votes against the person whom he holds responsible for his disappointment and lack of entertainment (me).
3) When this is (correctly so) pointed out to be a vote bomb (as just votes necessarily imply debates occurred, of which there were none), and someone counters him, he then goes back and changes his vote to something else entirely, just to make me lose. This continues to escalate, with someone coming in and countering his obvious vote bomb, and he changes his vote yet again to something else, to push me down below my opponent. In other words, his goal was not to give a just vote; it was to make me lose.
4) When he fails in this effort, he then goes to make a topic on the forum, trying to rally people against me and attack me.
5) He threatens to leave the site if you don't do what he wants.

This is exactly the behavior of a child, throwing a tantrum for not getting their way. It is disappointing to see a 19 year old ADULT acting in such a way.

As for my conduct in my PM conversations with him, it hardly matters; yes I am harsh with my words. I also stand by them all. I said the things I said because, harsh as they were, I felt they were appropriate given DoctorDeku's behavior.

And that's all that need be said really. I won't indulge this child further by engaging him; I suggest the site do the same.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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1/6/2013 12:57:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 12:33:46 PM, phantom wrote:
Your vote was unfair.

You say he deserved to lose the conduct point. I agree, but it's not your choice entirely. The fact that the pro was gracious to let it be a tie, overrides your freedom to chose that it not end in a tie. You feel that the debate should end one way but it's the two debaters who are doing the debate. They control it. That's how it works. When they come into mutual agreement over something, the debate should go that way. Your say doesn't outweigh theirs. Why would it exactly?

I think that's rather obvious. Seems a bit hasty to leave the site over it, and I'm sure the majority of members will disagree with you.

I agree. The authority of a voter to adjudicate only goes as far as that which the two participants of a debate permits him or her to exercise it. The two participants have already asked for a tie and have come to a mutual impasse instead of resuming their debate, so even then it would be unfair to judge on what one considers to be better when the debate is left, at best, incomplete with no further course or action that might have yielded a different result.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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1/6/2013 1:02:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 12:21:19 PM, RationalMadman wrote:
I've been votebombed against many times and lost because of it. I don't whine about it. Then again that majority of this site would so the chaos heart is just mimicking the self righteous elitism apparent in DDO.

"Self-righteous elitism," "mass mentality," tyranny of the majority-the same concept filtered and modulated in light of different pasts and different, but all adverse, experiences.
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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1/6/2013 1:11:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 12:33:46 PM, phantom wrote:
Your vote was unfair.

You say he deserved to lose the conduct point. I agree, but it's not your choice entirely. The fact that the pro was gracious to let it be a tie, overrides your freedom to chose that it not end in a tie. You feel that the debate should end one way but it's the two debaters who are doing the debate. They control it. That's how it works. When they come into mutual agreement over something, the debate should go that way. Your say doesn't outweigh theirs. Why would it exactly?

I think that's rather obvious. Seems a bit hasty to leave the site over it, and I'm sure the majority of members will disagree with you.

Btw, I hope you don't leave. But that's up to you.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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1/6/2013 7:24:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/6/2013 12:03:41 PM, DoctorDeku wrote:
I am posting this here so that a record may be made for future reference.
I gave conduct to Con on this debate-
http://www.debate.org...

On the grounds that Pro accepted the debate and didn't even try to argue. Pro called my character into question and claimed my vote was a vote bomb here-
http://debate.org...

Finally The_Chaos_Heart and I exchanged a series of PMs in which she repeatedly insulted my intelligence, character and intentions. The screenshots of which are here-
http://imgur.com...

At this point the entirety of my vote has been countered, and my right express myself has been violated. I have nothing more to say on this matter as it has become increasingly apparent that my right to speak will not be respected.

I will now start packing my things to go back to school, something I should have been doing all morning, and will leave this up to the community of DDO. If I am indeed denied my right to express myself, I will leave this community.

I am highly disapoint at the conduct The_Chaos_Heart, but realize that this does not reflect the beliefs and community standards of DDO as a whole; but I cannot be a part of a debate community that does not value the sanctity of a judge's vote. It is not acceptable to chock a vote one does not agree with up to be a 'votebomb' and I will not turn a blind eye to this.

I hope this community will support me, but if not -- it's be fun.

Welcome to realty and the way people really are. Learn from it when you enter the job force.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
DoctorDeku
Posts: 162
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1/6/2013 7:33:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
After a few hours to cool down I would say the lesson I've learned from all of this, is that I'm not going to vote anymore. I'll stay and I'll continue to use the debate function of this website but if my vote won't be respected I just won't vote.