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Is Charleslb a troll?

wrichcirw
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1/9/2013 8:15:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Charleslb and I have had a discussion about his sense of morality.

I got less of a sense of his version of morality, and much more of a sense that he is probably the biggest troll on this website, much more than the RatMan, which is saying a lot.

He doesn't seem to be able to convey his thoughts and beliefs without snideness and a continual stream of insults.

Has anyone else been subject to this troll, and if so, what are your thoughts on it?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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1/9/2013 8:29:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If charleslb is a troll, then he's a brilliant one that puts a lot of time and effort to it. He had his own website before askbob used it to call him.
Open borders debate:
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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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1/9/2013 11:01:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/9/2013 8:15:12 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Charleslb and I have had a discussion about his sense of morality.

I got less of a sense of his version of morality, and much more of a sense that he is probably the biggest troll on this website, much more than the RatMan, which is saying a lot.

He doesn't seem to be able to convey his thoughts and beliefs without snideness and a continual stream of insults.


Has anyone else been subject to this troll, and if so, what are your thoughts on it?

Under this criteria, Richard Dawkins is a troll.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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1/9/2013 11:17:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/9/2013 11:01:01 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 1/9/2013 8:15:12 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Charleslb and I have had a discussion about his sense of morality.

I got less of a sense of his version of morality, and much more of a sense that he is probably the biggest troll on this website, much more than the RatMan, which is saying a lot.

He doesn't seem to be able to convey his thoughts and beliefs without snideness and a continual stream of insults.


Has anyone else been subject to this troll, and if so, what are your thoughts on it?

Under this criteria, Richard Dawkins is a troll.

Wait, he isn't?
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Wnope
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1/9/2013 11:20:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/9/2013 11:17:54 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/9/2013 11:01:01 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 1/9/2013 8:15:12 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Charleslb and I have had a discussion about his sense of morality.

I got less of a sense of his version of morality, and much more of a sense that he is probably the biggest troll on this website, much more than the RatMan, which is saying a lot.

He doesn't seem to be able to convey his thoughts and beliefs without snideness and a continual stream of insults.


Has anyone else been subject to this troll, and if so, what are your thoughts on it?

Under this criteria, Richard Dawkins is a troll.

Wait, he isn't?

Touche
FREEDO
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1/9/2013 11:31:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If by troll you are implying he's ungenuine, I don't think he is at all.

Besides in the ways we all are.

I randomly saw found him on a different forum once, posting one of his signature rants there.

Personally, I think he's one of the more underscored members of the site. He puts more thought and effort into what he says than many who criticize him would care to do themselves.
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wrichcirw
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1/10/2013 12:23:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/9/2013 11:31:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
If by troll you are implying he's ungenuine, I don't think he is at all.

Besides in the ways we all are.

I randomly saw found him on a different forum once, posting one of his signature rants there.

Personally, I think he's one of the more underscored members of the site. He puts more thought and effort into what he says than many who criticize him would care to do themselves.

I wholly disagree. My last conversation with him consisted of little actual substance, and an entire litany of mockery and insults from him. After a while, I just stopped caring about his perspective, not because of his viewpoints, but because of his complete and utter lack of civility.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
FREEDO
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1/10/2013 12:40:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 12:23:40 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/9/2013 11:31:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
If by troll you are implying he's ungenuine, I don't think he is at all.

Besides in the ways we all are.

I randomly saw found him on a different forum once, posting one of his signature rants there.

Personally, I think he's one of the more underscored members of the site. He puts more thought and effort into what he says than many who criticize him would care to do themselves.

I wholly disagree. My last conversation with him consisted of little actual substance, and an entire litany of mockery and insults from him. After a while, I just stopped caring about his perspective, not because of his viewpoints, but because of his complete and utter lack of civility.

Alright. That's not what I've witnessed from him in the forum. Maybe he's different on a personal level.
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Ore_Ele
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1/10/2013 12:49:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 12:40:30 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 1/10/2013 12:23:40 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/9/2013 11:31:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
If by troll you are implying he's ungenuine, I don't think he is at all.

Besides in the ways we all are.

I randomly saw found him on a different forum once, posting one of his signature rants there.

Personally, I think he's one of the more underscored members of the site. He puts more thought and effort into what he says than many who criticize him would care to do themselves.

I wholly disagree. My last conversation with him consisted of little actual substance, and an entire litany of mockery and insults from him. After a while, I just stopped caring about his perspective, not because of his viewpoints, but because of his complete and utter lack of civility.

Alright. That's not what I've witnessed from him in the forum. Maybe he's different on a personal level.

I will have to admit that it is what I have as well. One time he posted some rant on the holidays making us forget about the suffering going on and I replied with a sourced statistic that we are more giving during the holidays, so they are actually raising awareness of it (though maybe not as much as he wants) and he never had a response other than to insult me.
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RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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1/10/2013 1:03:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think a troll is person who posts to get a reaction from others rather than to make an argument. charleslb posts lengthy opinion pieces, so that part is not trolling. But he won't debate or even respond to counter arguments with anything other than insults. That part is trolling. Just block him and ignore the threads he starts.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/10/2013 1:33:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 1:03:39 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
I think a troll is person who posts to get a reaction from others rather than to make an argument. charleslb posts lengthy opinion pieces, so that part is not trolling. But he won't debate or even respond to counter arguments with anything other than insults. That part is trolling. Just block him and ignore the threads he starts.

^

This has been my exact observation. Thank you.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
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1/10/2013 1:34:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 12:40:30 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 1/10/2013 12:23:40 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/9/2013 11:31:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
If by troll you are implying he's ungenuine, I don't think he is at all.

Besides in the ways we all are.

I randomly saw found him on a different forum once, posting one of his signature rants there.

Personally, I think he's one of the more underscored members of the site. He puts more thought and effort into what he says than many who criticize him would care to do themselves.

I wholly disagree. My last conversation with him consisted of little actual substance, and an entire litany of mockery and insults from him. After a while, I just stopped caring about his perspective, not because of his viewpoints, but because of his complete and utter lack of civility.

Alright. That's not what I've witnessed from him in the forum. Maybe he's different on a personal level.

No, this was in a forum discussion.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
tmar19652
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1/10/2013 4:43:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't think he is a troll, I just think that his points don't have merit.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/10/2013 6:21:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Can you please name one member who has been here for over 6 months who has not insulted anybody at least once?

I thought not.

That's the culture of DDO, unfortunately. People mix insults with arguments all the time.
OberHerr
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1/10/2013 6:47:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 6:21:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Can you please name one member who has been here for over 6 months who has not insulted anybody at least once?

I thought not.

That's the culture of DDO, unfortunately. People mix insults with arguments all the time.

I believe we are talking about ONLY doing that, if he can't refute.
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Mirza
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1/10/2013 7:19:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 6:21:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Can you please name one member who has been here for over 6 months who has not insulted anybody at least once?
Well, our insults are not 20 paragraphs long.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/10/2013 7:41:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 6:47:34 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/10/2013 6:21:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Can you please name one member who has been here for over 6 months who has not insulted anybody at least once?

I thought not.

That's the culture of DDO, unfortunately. People mix insults with arguments all the time.

I believe we are talking about ONLY doing that, if he can't refute.

He does refute arguments. You just don't agree with the refutations. That does not mean he is a troll.
imabench
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1/10/2013 9:04:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 7:19:19 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/10/2013 6:21:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Can you please name one member who has been here for over 6 months who has not insulted anybody at least once?

Well, our insults are not 20 paragraphs long.

^ valid point
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OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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1/10/2013 9:08:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/9/2013 8:15:12 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Charleslb and I have had a discussion about his sense of morality.

I got less of a sense of his version of morality, and much more of a sense that he is probably the biggest troll on this website, much more than the RatMan, which is saying a lot.

He doesn't seem to be able to convey his thoughts and beliefs without snideness and a continual stream of insults.

Has anyone else been subject to this troll, and if so, what are your thoughts on it?

Charleslb is either a troll or a severely morally depraved individual, or both. I've covered his sense of morality, it's displayed in my discussion with him in my signature. He's too partisan to be taken seriously, and people lose my respect when they try and defend his nonsense.

And yes, his rebuttals are generally insults lacking any sort of substantive content.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/10/2013 9:39:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 4:43:58 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
I don't think he is a troll, I just think that his points don't have merit.

Just wait for the litany of insults. I think you will change your mind at that point.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/10/2013 9:39:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 7:41:12 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/10/2013 6:47:34 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/10/2013 6:21:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Can you please name one member who has been here for over 6 months who has not insulted anybody at least once?

I thought not.

That's the culture of DDO, unfortunately. People mix insults with arguments all the time.

I believe we are talking about ONLY doing that, if he can't refute.

He does refute arguments. You just don't agree with the refutations. That does not mean he is a troll.

Unfortunately that was not the case in the discussion I had with him. His refutations WERE INSULTS.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/10/2013 9:43:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Before I forget, this is the thread in question:

http://debate.org...

I would like to say that I was very patient with him. It took about 4-5 direct comments that were purely insults before I could get him to state his definition of morality. I continually asked that he be a bit more civil in how he addressed people, all of which was met by...more insults.

After a while, I just got sick of it, and put him on my block list. This thread was clearly an attempt by him to troll.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
royalpaladin
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1/10/2013 9:43:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 9:39:51 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/10/2013 7:41:12 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/10/2013 6:47:34 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 1/10/2013 6:21:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Can you please name one member who has been here for over 6 months who has not insulted anybody at least once?

I thought not.

That's the culture of DDO, unfortunately. People mix insults with arguments all the time.

I believe we are talking about ONLY doing that, if he can't refute.

He does refute arguments. You just don't agree with the refutations. That does not mean he is a troll.

Unfortunately that was not the case in the discussion I had with him. His refutations WERE INSULTS.

Have you actually tried engaging him on a substantive level? Most people just post shallow arguments mixed with insults in response to his claims and expect him to not use insults in response. Like, the vast majority of responses to him are just attacks on his writing style. I've engaged with is arguments on a substantive level, and he has never insulted me even once.
royalpaladin
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1/10/2013 9:45:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 9:43:47 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Before I forget, this is the thread in question:

http://debate.org...

I would like to say that I was very patient with him. It took about 4-5 direct comments that were purely insults before I could get him to state his definition of morality. I continually asked that he be a bit more civil in how he addressed people, all of which was met by...more insults.

After a while, I just got sick of it, and put him on my block list. This thread was clearly an attempt by him to troll.

Right off the bat I see two people insulting him. People create a hostile environment and expect him to not respond for whatever reason.
RoyLatham
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1/10/2013 9:48:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 6:21:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Can you please name one member who has been here for over 6 months who has not insulted anybody at least once?

I thought not.

That's the culture of DDO, unfortunately. People mix insults with arguments all the time.

I certainly have not deliberately insulted anyone, although I cannot say if people feel insulted. I haven't done a survey, but I doubt that a third of the members systematically insult people. the purpose of making insults is to draw attention, and that works so well that it seems like there are a lot more of them then there are.

There's an important difference between attacking a person and attacking an argument. Arguments come and go, the people endure.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/10/2013 9:48:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yeah, you're straight up lying about him not responding to the substance. I only see him insulting you so far with regards to your comment about how he deactivated his account.
SarcasticIndeed
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1/10/2013 9:52:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 6:21:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Can you please name one member who has been here for over 6 months who has not insulted anybody at least once?

I thought not.

That's the culture of DDO, unfortunately. People mix insults with arguments all the time.

*points finger at myself*
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/10/2013 9:54:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ok, I skimmed your discussion. You were claiming that some actions are above morality and Charles denies this and notes that all actions should be subject to moral judgments. You also assert that the fault lies with the Bush administration/government and not the generals, but Charles is arguing that this type of reasoning removes any sort of moral onus on individuals and dehumanizes them entirely. They're still responsible for doing what they did even if they were only following orders (which was established by international law in the Nuremburg Trials). I don't see how he is failing to respond. You just didn't like the direction the discussion went in so you wrote him off as a troll. Does he use insults? Sure, but only as a way to challenge your assumptions. Should he use insults? No, but I don't thin he's using ad hominem or trolling; I think he's just using them to make a point.
royalpaladin
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1/10/2013 10:01:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 9:08:42 AM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:
At 1/9/2013 8:15:12 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
Charleslb and I have had a discussion about his sense of morality.

I got less of a sense of his version of morality, and much more of a sense that he is probably the biggest troll on this website, much more than the RatMan, which is saying a lot.

He doesn't seem to be able to convey his thoughts and beliefs without snideness and a continual stream of insults.

Has anyone else been subject to this troll, and if so, what are your thoughts on it?

Charleslb is either a troll or a severely morally depraved individual, or both. I've covered his sense of morality, it's displayed in my discussion with him in my signature.
That's a massive strawman of his claim. He never was justifying what the Soviet Union did; he was merely pointing out that it's not much different from what the US did/does and was claiming that the Soviet Union is vilified simply because of its ideological stances while the US skates through criticism.

Charleslb is Anarchist Communist.

Also, I'm not sure why you're attacking his conception of morality considering that your own Aristotelian conception involves inventing fantasy bonds that individuals have to adhere because their community says so and civilization is more important than the people within it. That ideology has been used to justify severe oppression throughout the world. It's pretty hypocritical for you to attack him like that when your ideology does even worse things.
He's too partisan to be taken seriously, and people lose my respect when they try and defend his nonsense.

And yes, his rebuttals are generally insults lacking any sort of substantive content.

Not true at all. He responds to insults with insults. I've never insulted him or labeled him a troll, and he's never insulted me. Your responses to him were extremely insulting, however, so he responded in kind.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/10/2013 10:19:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/10/2013 9:48:24 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 1/10/2013 6:21:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Can you please name one member who has been here for over 6 months who has not insulted anybody at least once?

I thought not.

That's the culture of DDO, unfortunately. People mix insults with arguments all the time.

I certainly have not deliberately insulted anyone, although I cannot say if people feel insulted. I haven't done a survey, but I doubt that a third of the members systematically insult people. the purpose of making insults is to draw attention, and that works so well that it seems like there are a lot more of them then there are.

There's an important difference between attacking a person and attacking an argument. Arguments come and go, the people endure.

^
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?