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why do people us abusive ad homs???

Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,289
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3/7/2013 10:11:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

Most people tend to lash out for many reasons, particularly if they're cornered and feel that they can no longer keep their own argument from falling apart.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Zaradi
Posts: 14,128
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3/7/2013 10:22:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dude, no one cares about your opinion. You call your self "catdaddy". Wtf is that?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
ockcatdaddy
Posts: 155
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3/7/2013 10:52:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 10:22:32 AM, Zaradi wrote:
Dude, no one cares about your opinion. You call your self "catdaddy". Wtf is that?

its a song and nice ad hom. lol
-keith-
YYW
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3/7/2013 11:00:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

Depends on the user. I try to avoid it, but if someone is being willfully stupid, I have no qualms about calling them out. That said, there aren't many that act willfully stupid.
Tsar of DDO
lannan13
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3/7/2013 11:04:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

To trigger other people's responses, these people are called trolls.
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drafterman
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3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.
ockcatdaddy
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3/7/2013 11:28:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 11:04:38 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

To trigger other people's responses, these people are called trolls.

that is a totally different topic
-keith-
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,289
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3/7/2013 11:42:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

^^^^ This. I've also noticed that people often don't recognize real ad hominem fallacies when they are committed. An example of this is the widely accepted idea that a point can be dismissed without examination if the person arguing it has a bias. You cannot dismiss an argument based on a character trait of the person making the argument. Hitler is biased on the topic of Jews, but if he says that a Chanukah menorah has nine branches it's still true regardless.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
ockcatdaddy
Posts: 155
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3/7/2013 11:46:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 11:42:32 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

^^^^ This. I've also noticed that people often don't recognize real ad hominem fallacies when they are committed. An example of this is the widely accepted idea that a point can be dismissed without examination if the person arguing it has a bias. You cannot dismiss an argument based on a character trait of the person making the argument. Hitler is biased on the topic of Jews, but if he says that a Chanukah menorah has nine branches it's still true regardless.

tis true
-keith-
FrackJack
Posts: 1,392
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3/7/2013 11:49:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

http://www.nizkor.org...
: At 8/8/2013 6:15:09 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
: The idiots are rebelling.

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drafterman
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3/7/2013 11:52:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 11:49:20 AM, FrackJack wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

http://www.nizkor.org...

Exactly.
ockcatdaddy
Posts: 155
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3/7/2013 11:59:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 11:52:55 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:49:20 AM, FrackJack wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

http://www.nizkor.org...

Exactly.

way to let someone else cite your reference
-keith-
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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3/7/2013 12:02:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 11:59:39 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:52:55 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:49:20 AM, FrackJack wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

http://www.nizkor.org...

Exactly.

way to let someone else cite your reference

That an ad hominem is a fallacy is pretty common knowledge among the members of a debate site. It was more of an addition to his point than a citation.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
ockcatdaddy
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3/7/2013 12:08:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 12:02:38 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:59:39 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:52:55 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:49:20 AM, FrackJack wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

http://www.nizkor.org...

Exactly.

way to let someone else cite your reference

That an ad hominem is a fallacy is pretty common knowledge among the members of a debate site. It was more of an addition to his point than a citation.

okay...!@!!!!
-keith-
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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3/7/2013 12:47:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 12:02:38 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:59:39 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:52:55 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:49:20 AM, FrackJack wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

http://www.nizkor.org...

Exactly.

way to let someone else cite your reference

That an ad hominem is a fallacy is pretty common knowledge among the members of a debate site. It was more of an addition to his point than a citation.

Yes, thank you. I was not referring to that site when I stated my point. It's common knowledge.
tulle
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3/7/2013 1:09:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 11:42:32 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

^^^^ This. I've also noticed that people often don't recognize real ad hominem fallacies when they are committed. An example of this is the widely accepted idea that a point can be dismissed without examination if the person arguing it has a bias. You cannot dismiss an argument based on a character trait of the person making the argument. Hitler is biased on the topic of Jews, but if he says that a Chanukah menorah has nine branches it's still true regardless.

EXCELLENT.
yang.
Oryus
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3/7/2013 1:26:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

THANK YOU.

Sometimes it drives me crazy when people call plain old insults ad hom's. honestly, I can't remember the last time I saw a genuine ad hom on this site. Most of the time people just insult others because they think their arguments are stupid and/or they've become emotionally invested in the argument.
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bossyburrito
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3/7/2013 1:47:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

Really, is there that big of a difference between "You're stupid and I'm not going to respond because I'm right and not stupid" and "You're wrong because you're stupid"?
#UnbanTheMadman

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drafterman
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3/7/2013 2:24:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 1:47:28 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

Really, is there that big of a difference between "You're stupid and I'm not going to respond because I'm right and not stupid" and "You're wrong because you're stupid"?

As far as the end result? No. But, then again, there is no practical difference between any fallacious reason for dismissing an argument - the argument is still rejected and fallaciously so. Yet we still have different names for those fallacies.

The difference here, is in the thought process that it reveals.

A true ad hominem reveals an underlying cognitive bias that has undermined the offender's ability to come to a logical conclusion. That is, they truly believe that, if someone has some sort of unfortunate characteristic (such as being a specific political faction), then their ability to make factual statements is impaired.

In the other situation, the person is just an a$$hole, which means they are either being lazy or simply don't have a better reply at the moment.

While the end result is the same (termination of the debate for poor reasons), the first situation is worse as, if the conversation were ever to be revived, it is unlikely the offender will have resolved his cognitive bias, but in the second, the offender might actually have come up with something constructive to add.
Illegalcombatant
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3/7/2013 4:14:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

There you go again drafterman, typical left wing liberal who wants the terrorists to win. Is this what we should do ? the mad plans of a terrorist lover.

STOP THE WAR ON RELIGION, demand the right to ban gays.
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AlbinoBunny
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3/7/2013 5:13:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You're all weak therefore your arguments are invalid.
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philochristos
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3/7/2013 5:52:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 1:26:48 PM, Oryus wrote:
honestly, I can't remember the last time I saw a genuine ad hom on this site.

I haven't seen one on this site either, but a good example of an ad hominem argument that I've seen frequently on the internet (and even in real life) is where people will dismiss anything a man says about abortion merely because he's a man, as if his gender has anything to do with whether his arguments are sound.
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philochristos
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3/7/2013 5:57:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Even when insults are not used in ad hominem arguments, they can be used to commit a different fallacy--poisoning the well. That is, if you can cause the reader to have a bias against the other person by calling the other person an idiot, then you're poisoning the well. You don't even have to insult the person directly. You can insult their argument by saying their arguing is stupid or their point of view is idiotic, and that poisons the well, too.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

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KeytarHero
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3/7/2013 6:54:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 11:24:06 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

99.99999....% of the time, what people call "ad hominems" are merely "insults."

Insulting someone is not an ad hominem.
Insulting someone and dismissing their argument is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem is concluding that their statement is false, simply because they possess and unrelated, unfavorable character trait.

I was just about to make this point, except for one caveat: An ad hominem does not have to be unrelated. For example, claiming that someone's argument against abortion fails because he's a man and men can't have an opinion on abortion commits the ad hominem fallacy, although being a man is certainly related to the issue.
Oryus
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3/7/2013 6:57:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 5:52:58 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 3/7/2013 1:26:48 PM, Oryus wrote:
honestly, I can't remember the last time I saw a genuine ad hom on this site.

I haven't seen one on this site either, but a good example of an ad hominem argument that I've seen frequently on the internet (and even in real life) is where people will dismiss anything a man says about abortion merely because he's a man, as if his gender has anything to do with whether his arguments are sound.

I've heard that one but I don't think I've heard it on this site... However, I have seen debates regarding whether men's opinions on the matter should be considered at all (sound or unsound) argued on this site before both formally and informally.
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Oryus
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3/7/2013 6:59:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 5:57:54 PM, philochristos wrote:
Even when insults are not used in ad hominem arguments, they can be used to commit a different fallacy--poisoning the well. That is, if you can cause the reader to have a bias against the other person by calling the other person an idiot, then you're poisoning the well. You don't even have to insult the person directly. You can insult their argument by saying their arguing is stupid or their point of view is idiotic, and that poisons the well, too.

Poisoning the well I have definitely seen on this site numerous times.....
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
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Wallstreetatheist
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3/7/2013 8:27:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

Abusive ad hominems can be weak or strong depending if the flaw is relevant to the topic of discussion.
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imabench
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3/7/2013 10:52:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/7/2013 10:02:19 AM, ockcatdaddy wrote:
why do other DDO users use abusive ad hominems???

Why???, BECAUSE THIS IS AMURICA THATS WHY
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