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Question about forfeit voting

Lizard
Posts: 53
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3/10/2013 4:02:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
How many points do you give? I see people giving just 1, some give 4, and others give 7. Is it that 1 forfeit = 1 point loss, 2 forfeits equals 4 points and a full forfeit = all 7 points?
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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3/10/2013 4:25:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Any forfeit generally results in loss of conduct and two forfeits usually means loss of the debate. Some people say 1 forfeit warrants a loss of the debate but others don't and I agree that it shouldn't. When I first joined, hardly anyone would award someone arguments as well as conduct for just one forfeit. It's more of a recent (well not that recent) thing. I think one forfeit should only result in loss of conduct, two forfeits arguments plus conduct and three forfeits all seven points.
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wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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3/10/2013 4:29:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Seems to me like you ought to vote for who won the debate, who was most persuasive. If you want to vote a conduct point for missing one or more rounds, that's okay. And if you want to vote a Full Forfeit (seven points) for not arguing at all, that's fine too.

Suppose Pro posts something tight and compelling, and then doesn't post again. And suppose Con posts incoherent gibberish for five rounds. Pro wins the argument, and ought to get the persuasion points.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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3/10/2013 4:31:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Some people try to make a rule that a single-round forfeit costs you all seven points. I tend not even to read debates like that. I want to make up my own mind about who won.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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3/10/2013 4:33:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Arguments are to be evaluated independently of forfeits. With just one forfeit, it really is a toss up who has the better arguments. The best thing for a debater to do when faced with a forfeit is to take full advantage of the extra character space and continue posting arguments at least for one more round. It usually results in arguments being awarded to them as well in addition to conduct. If they used reliable sources and the forfeiter used none, that is another clear cut 2 points. If only the non-forfeiter posted any arguments at all, they could get spelling and grammar as well.

The interesting part is when one person forfeits, and the other just keeps saying "opponent hasn't posted arguments" when he hasn't either. In that case, just the conduct points would be more than enough and it will probably lead to them winning anyways.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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3/10/2013 4:49:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I forfeited the last rounds of two of my debates by accident, so I hope the punishment isn't too harsh... :P
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imabench
Posts: 21,230
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3/10/2013 7:39:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2013 4:02:02 PM, Lizard wrote:
How many points do you give? I see people giving just 1, some give 4, and others give 7. Is it that 1 forfeit = 1 point loss, 2 forfeits equals 4 points and a full forfeit = all 7 points?

Usually it goes like this:

1 point = neither side presented arguments but one side just forfeited every round
4 points = opening arguments were presented but then one side forfeited every round
7 points = normally the losing side presents some terrible opening arguments, the winning side counters with much better arguments, and then the losing side forfeits every round...

Occasionally though if someone is acting like a complete idiot or is very disliked by people, then 7 point forfeit votes are commonplace.
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RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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3/10/2013 7:49:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The way I usually do it, if someone forfeits and comes back, they only lose 1 point, but they can still win the arguments points if they did a good enough job. If they forfeited the last round, then since their opponent's arguments stand uncontested they lose both conduct and arguments. If they don't show up at all, then it doesn't matter how many points you give, they're going to lose anyway.

I think everyone on here has a slightly different system for voting on FF'ed debates, but they're all close enough that it's usually not an issue. Just vote in a way that makes sense to you. If you screw up, somebody will let you know -- you can count on that.
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likespeace
Posts: 57
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3/11/2013 7:49:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/10/2013 4:02:02 PM, Lizard wrote:
How many points do you give? I see people giving just 1, some give 4, and others give 7. Is it that 1 forfeit = 1 point loss, 2 forfeits equals 4 points and a full forfeit = all 7 points?

1 point, the max allowed for a conduct violation, unless special rules were agreed to.

I vote arguments based on who presented the better arguments. That's almost always the person who didn't forfeit, but there are exceptions. A couple weeks ago a member lost (by all votes!) when Pro only presented in 1 out of 4 rounds. Noting the forfeits, Con didn't present any counter-arguments, and so Pro's round one arguments stood unchallenged.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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3/11/2013 12:23:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If somebody forfeits one round, but then picks the debate back up in the following round, I won't necessarily hold that against them except maybe a conduct point. But if they forfeit in the last round, that's definitely a loss. I'll give arguments and conduct to their opponent.
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AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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3/11/2013 3:12:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/11/2013 12:23:24 PM, philochristos wrote:
If somebody forfeits one round, but then picks the debate back up in the following round, I won't necessarily hold that against them except maybe a conduct point. But if they forfeit in the last round, that's definitely a loss. I'll give arguments and conduct to their opponent.

http://debate.org...

http://debate.org...

So I'm screwed? :(
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philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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3/11/2013 4:44:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/11/2013 3:12:44 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 3/11/2013 12:23:24 PM, philochristos wrote:
If somebody forfeits one round, but then picks the debate back up in the following round, I won't necessarily hold that against them except maybe a conduct point. But if they forfeit in the last round, that's definitely a loss. I'll give arguments and conduct to their opponent.

http://debate.org...

http://debate.org...

So I'm screwed? :(

Yup. :-( Why did you do that? Especially the second one, after putting in all that effort. It seems like if you invest that much in a debate, it doesn't make sense to forfeit in the last round unless you just can't get on the internet. Because if you can, you can at least say SOMETHING. I mean even if you're losing, you should say something just out of politeness so the other person can have the satisfaction of winning on the merits of their arguments rather than on a technicality.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle