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The Obamacare issue will persist

RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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3/23/2013 12:41:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Liberals say that Obamacare is a done deal, and like all new entitlements the country should just accept the socialist victory and move on. That was true for Social Security and Medicare, so it's a good argument.

That's not happening with Obamacare. The reason is that Obamacare is shaping up to be an enormous disaster. The regulations are pouring out of government, imposing dramatic tax increases and causing serious damage to small business. Full time employees are being converted to part time, and small business are staying below 50 employees. Insurance companies have applied to double rates next year, half of physicians are not taking new Medicare patients, the system of "exchanges" is an undefined mess, and enrollments in medical schools are dropping. It now appears that we'll see government supervised rationing of health care by the end of next year. CBO now has Obamacare costing three times the original estimate, and we're just getting started.

In order to kill a free country will socialism it needs to be imposed in tiny increments to that the damage caused by each increment won't be an issue. Dramatic imposition makes the damage apparent, and that's what's happening with Obamacare. The issue is not going away.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/23/2013 1:11:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I find it interesting that the manner in which it was ruled constitutional (considering the fee as a tax) makes it impossible to raise the fee to effective levels without destroying the law's legal justification. There's some precedent about a something only being able to be considered a tax if it doesn't make purchasing something untenable, which is precisely what would need to be done to make the AFA work as intended in the long run.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
sadolite
Posts: 8,834
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3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama. Now America gets what it deserves. Quit your crying. Capitalism has been defeated. It is time for you to start thinking and acting like a socialist. You are a minority, you don't matter and neither do your opinions. America and it's culture are no longer compatible with your views or mine. You may as well resign yourself as being viewed as a Nazi or something. All you can do is try to undermine everything that govt is going to do to you and hide if you intend to keep your incompatible views. Total dependency is the future. Long gone are the days of hard work and self reliance. It's all about the exponential expansion of the nanny state. You are to stupid to make decisions about your life and future. That is the role of govt now.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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3/23/2013 3:54:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama. Now America gets what it deserves. Quit your crying. Capitalism has been defeated.

And the award for biggest drama queen goes too.....

It is time for you to start thinking and acting like a socialist. You are a minority, you don't matter and neither do your opinions. America and it's culture are no longer compatible with your views or mine. You may as well resign yourself as being viewed as a Nazi or something. All you can do is try to undermine everything that govt is going to do to you and hide if you intend to keep your incompatible views. Total dependency is the future. Long gone are the days of hard work and self reliance. It's all about the exponential expansion of the nanny state. You are to stupid to make decisions about your life and future. That is the role of govt now.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
THEVIRUS
Posts: 1,321
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3/23/2013 4:01:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama.

I would have voted for him if I could, not because I liked him but because Romney was worse. Actually, I would have voted for a 3rd Party rep.
"So you want me to go to the judge with 'unit, corps, God, country'?" - A Few Good Men

"And the hits just keep on comin'." -A Few Good Men
THEVIRUS
Posts: 1,321
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3/23/2013 4:01:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 3:54:38 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama. Now America gets what it deserves. Quit your crying. Capitalism has been defeated.

And the award for biggest drama queen goes too.....

......................................................................^to, Ima, not too.
"So you want me to go to the judge with 'unit, corps, God, country'?" - A Few Good Men

"And the hits just keep on comin'." -A Few Good Men
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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3/23/2013 4:08:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 4:01:46 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
At 3/23/2013 3:54:38 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama. Now America gets what it deserves. Quit your crying. Capitalism has been defeated.

And the award for biggest drama queen goes too.....

......................................................................^to, Ima, not too.

thank you kind sir!

let me try again

*AHEM*, And the award for biggest drama queen goes to......
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
THEVIRUS
Posts: 1,321
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3/23/2013 4:17:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 4:08:48 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/23/2013 4:01:46 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
At 3/23/2013 3:54:38 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama. Now America gets what it deserves. Quit your crying. Capitalism has been defeated.

And the award for biggest drama queen goes too.....

......................................................................^to, Ima, not too.

thank you kind sir!

let me try again

*AHEM*, And the award for biggest drama queen goes to......

lmfao :)
"So you want me to go to the judge with 'unit, corps, God, country'?" - A Few Good Men

"And the hits just keep on comin'." -A Few Good Men
YYW
Posts: 36,249
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3/23/2013 4:36:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 12:41:04 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Liberals say that Obamacare is a done deal, and like all new entitlements the country should just accept the socialist victory and move on. That was true for Social Security and Medicare, so it's a good argument.

That's not happening with Obamacare. The reason is that Obamacare is shaping up to be an enormous disaster. The regulations are pouring out of government, imposing dramatic tax increases and causing serious damage to small business. Full time employees are being converted to part time, and small business are staying below 50 employees. Insurance companies have applied to double rates next year, half of physicians are not taking new Medicare patients, the system of "exchanges" is an undefined mess, and enrollments in medical schools are dropping. It now appears that we'll see government supervised rationing of health care by the end of next year. CBO now has Obamacare costing three times the original estimate, and we're just getting started.

In order to kill a free country will socialism it needs to be imposed in tiny increments to that the damage caused by each increment won't be an issue. Dramatic imposition makes the damage apparent, and that's what's happening with Obamacare. The issue is not going away.

Want to debate this?
Tsar of DDO
sadolite
Posts: 8,834
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3/23/2013 5:11:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 3:54:38 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama. Now America gets what it deserves. Quit your crying. Capitalism has been defeated.

And the award for biggest drama queen goes too.....

It is time for you to start thinking and acting like a socialist. You are a minority, you don't matter and neither do your opinions. America and it's culture are no longer compatible with your views or mine. You may as well resign yourself as being viewed as a Nazi or something. All you can do is try to undermine everything that govt is going to do to you and hide if you intend to keep your incompatible views. Total dependency is the future. Long gone are the days of hard work and self reliance. It's all about the exponential expansion of the nanny state. You are to stupid to make decisions about your life and future. That is the role of govt now.

No, I live in reality. Capitalism can not exist if the rule of law is going to be manipulated to accommodate socialist agendas such as Obamacare. Legal financial contracts mean nothing anymore. They can be thrown away like a gum wrapper. Bailing companies out that make bad decisions is not capitalism. You go ahead and think what you want. I am older and I know what capitalism is and how it thrives. What this govt is doing is not even in the remotest of remotest of terms encouraging capitalism or making it thrive. The down side of capitol ism must be adhered to for it to work. Failure and loss of everything for poor financial decisions and a strict adherence to the rule of law and financial contracts. Without these two things pursuing capitalism in any so called "semi" form or pure form is a waste of time. It will fail and it will be defeated. Now go fill out your 15 page application for your "FREE" govt health care that wont cost anybody any money. Drink the koolaid.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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3/23/2013 6:47:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 5:11:02 PM, sadolite wrote:

No, I live in reality.

Clearly you dont... Socialism and Capitalism arent like matter and Anti-matter where they cant ever exist at the same time... Its possible to have a combination of both at the same time and you apparently cant accept that.

Capitalism cannot exist if the rule of law is going to be manipulated to accommodate socialist agendas such as Obamacare.

Opinion.

Legal financial contracts mean nothing anymore.

Opinion.

They can be thrown away like a gum wrapper.

Opinion.

Bailing companies out that make bad decisions is not capitalism.

Opinion

You go ahead and think what you want. I am older and I know what capitalism is and how it thrives.

Doubt it

What this govt is doing is not even in the remotest of remotest of terms encouraging capitalism or making it thrive. The down side of capitolism must be adhered to for it to work.

Opinion

Failure and loss of everything for poor financial decisions and a strict adherence to the rule of law and financial contracts. Without these two things pursuing capitalism in any so called "semi" form or pure form is a waste of time.

Opinion

It will fail and it will be defeated.

Opinion

Now go fill out your 15 page application for your "FREE" govt health care that wont cost anybody any money. Drink the koolaid.

Senile
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/23/2013 7:03:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 4:01:01 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
At 3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama.

I would have voted for him if I could, not because I liked him but because Romney was worse. Actually, I would have voted for a 3rd Party rep.

Bull fvcking sh*t.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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3/23/2013 7:13:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 7:03:33 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/23/2013 4:01:01 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
At 3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama.

I would have voted for him if I could, not because I liked him but because Romney was worse. Actually, I would have voted for a 3rd Party rep.

Bull fvcking sh*t.

He kinda did want to increase military spending by 2 trillion dollars while also reduce taxes on income by 20%.... I can kinda see why people might think that such fiscal policies arent necessarily 'better' then Obama's....
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/23/2013 7:16:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 7:03:33 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/23/2013 4:01:01 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
At 3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama.

I would have voted for him if I could, not because I liked him but because Romney was worse. Actually, I would have voted for a 3rd Party rep.

Bull fvcking sh*t.

Oh wow! Since you put it that way, it must be false!
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/23/2013 7:24:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 7:13:12 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/23/2013 7:03:33 PM, Contra wrote:
At 3/23/2013 4:01:01 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
At 3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama.

I would have voted for him if I could, not because I liked him but because Romney was worse. Actually, I would have voted for a 3rd Party rep.

Bull fvcking sh*t.

He kinda did want to increase military spending by 2 trillion dollars while also reduce taxes on income by 20%.... I can kinda see why people might think that such fiscal policies arent necessarily 'better' then Obama's....

Okay, I will clarify.

Military spending probably wouldn't of changed, his presidential campaign admitted that any increase in military spending would probably be unrealistic due to budget problems.

On other issues though.

The Romney campaign supported Paul Ryan's plan, and the tax rates proposed by Simpson-Bowles. By reducing taxes, you stimulate economic growth through more investment, business expansion, more hiring and more consumption.

So you strengthen the economic recovery, and by making the United States have a competitive tax code also in the corporate sphere, with a territorial tax system, over $2 trillion in overseas funds would flow back to our shores. Other businesses would reinvest in America, improving high tech manufacturing, aircraft production, and other growing markets.

On social issues, nothing would have probably changed.

By putting America on track to a balanced budget, and by streamlining the regulatory code, you instill confidence into the American economy, allowing people to engage in financial transactions with less risk and at a higher level.

Simply this. If Romney was elected President and acted on his promises, and utilized his past experience of as a leader and a turnaround artist, America would have a real economic recovery, with more job creation, higher take home pay, and a stronger middle class. This would require more compromise with Senate Democrats, but America would be stronger.

Note though, the last Republican campaign had plenty of flaws though, which is why they lost. They were unrealistic and harsh with immigration. They were not effective at communicating their message, especially with the Latino and female voters.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,225
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3/23/2013 7:47:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yah, but Obamacare prolly wouldn't have been touched under Romney anyway with the congressional makeup.

I think I read somewhere that if the government simply set up free health waivers for all the uninsured people, it would have cost a fraction of what Obamacare is slated to cost.
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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3/23/2013 7:58:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 4:01:01 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
At 3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama.

I would have voted for him if I could, not because I liked him but because Romney was worse. Actually, I would have voted for a 3rd Party rep.

How about Michael Bloomberg? He belongs and answers to no one but himself.
Romney is a honor man, but he lacks the wit in competing with the superior opponent. Romney is a good business man, but not a shrewd politician.
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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3/23/2013 8:08:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 12:41:04 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Liberals say that Obamacare is a done deal, and like all new entitlements the country should just accept the socialist victory and move on. That was true for Social Security and Medicare, so it's a good argument.

That's not happening with Obamacare. The reason is that Obamacare is shaping up to be an enormous disaster. The regulations are pouring out of government, imposing dramatic tax increases and causing serious damage to small business. Full time employees are being converted to part time, and small business are staying below 50 employees. Insurance companies have applied to double rates next year, half of physicians are not taking new Medicare patients, the system of "exchanges" is an undefined mess, and enrollments in medical schools are dropping. It now appears that we'll see government supervised rationing of health care by the end of next year. CBO now has Obamacare costing three times the original estimate, and we're just getting started.

In order to kill a free country will socialism it needs to be imposed in tiny increments to that the damage caused by each increment won't be an issue. Dramatic imposition makes the damage apparent, and that's what's happening with Obamacare. The issue is not going away.

Not only is the cost of implementation astronomic, but also will the poor quality of service ensue. Several months ago, someone argued that the mega-corporation Wal-Mart would be the largest beneficiary of the ObamaCare since insurance cost would pass from the company to employees (Wal-Mart has hired so many part-time workers).

Yet what can people do? Republicans have almost zero chance to repel the law even if they may retain the control of the Senate in mid-term election. The best one can do at this time is to minimize the devastating effect of the ObamaCare.
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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3/23/2013 8:58:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 7:24:57 PM, Contra wrote:
Military spending probably wouldn't of changed, his presidential campaign admitted that any increase in military spending would probably be unrealistic due to budget problems.
You don't change your political message prior to the election. A mistake that shows that Romney was no better than President Obama.

Note though, the last Republican campaign had plenty of flaws though, which is why they lost. They were unrealistic and harsh with immigration. They were not effective at communicating their message, especially with the Latino and female voters.
I believe Romney made a grievous mistake by adhering to Paul Ryan's plan. His budget plan simply defies the rule of mathematics. When President Obama asked how Mr. Romney would fix the budget, Romney simply replied that "of course it will work." Would anyone be convinced by such a bad argument?
sadolite
Posts: 8,834
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3/23/2013 9:05:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 6:47:15 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/23/2013 5:11:02 PM, sadolite wrote:

No, I live in reality.

Clearly you dont... Socialism and Capitalism arent like matter and Anti-matter where they cant ever exist at the same time... Its possible to have a combination of both at the same time and you apparently cant accept that.

Capitalism cannot exist if the rule of law is going to be manipulated to accommodate socialist agendas such as Obamacare.

Opinion.

Legal financial contracts mean nothing anymore.

Opinion.

They can be thrown away like a gum wrapper.

Opinion.

Bailing companies out that make bad decisions is not capitalism.

Opinion

You go ahead and think what you want. I am older and I know what capitalism is and how it thrives.

Doubt it

What this govt is doing is not even in the remotest of remotest of terms encouraging capitalism or making it thrive. The down side of capitolism must be adhered to for it to work.

Opinion

Failure and loss of everything for poor financial decisions and a strict adherence to the rule of law and financial contracts. Without these two things pursuing capitalism in any so called "semi" form or pure form is a waste of time.

Opinion

It will fail and it will be defeated.

Opinion

Now go fill out your 15 page application for your "FREE" govt health care that wont cost anybody any money. Drink the koolaid.

Senile

"Capitalism arent like matter and Anti-matter where they cant ever exist at the same time..." Oh you mean like it is being done now? Ya that's working out real well.

Oh and to the "senile remark Fck you you fcking little cowardice piece of sht. Just like in the real world the rule of law neither applies here either. You violate the rules of decorum constantly why shouldn't I. So again go fck yourself you little fcking dick sucking azzhole.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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3/23/2013 10:38:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 9:05:48 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/23/2013 6:47:15 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/23/2013 5:11:02 PM, sadolite wrote:

No, I live in reality.

Clearly you dont... Socialism and Capitalism arent like matter and Anti-matter where they cant ever exist at the same time... Its possible to have a combination of both at the same time and you apparently cant accept that.

Capitalism cannot exist if the rule of law is going to be manipulated to accommodate socialist agendas such as Obamacare.

Opinion.

Legal financial contracts mean nothing anymore.

Opinion.

They can be thrown away like a gum wrapper.

Opinion.

Bailing companies out that make bad decisions is not capitalism.

Opinion

You go ahead and think what you want. I am older and I know what capitalism is and how it thrives.

Doubt it

What this govt is doing is not even in the remotest of remotest of terms encouraging capitalism or making it thrive. The down side of capitolism must be adhered to for it to work.

Opinion

Failure and loss of everything for poor financial decisions and a strict adherence to the rule of law and financial contracts. Without these two things pursuing capitalism in any so called "semi" form or pure form is a waste of time.

Opinion

It will fail and it will be defeated.

Opinion

Now go fill out your 15 page application for your "FREE" govt health care that wont cost anybody any money. Drink the koolaid.

Senile

"Capitalism arent like matter and Anti-matter where they cant ever exist at the same time..." Oh you mean like it is being done now? Ya that's working out real well.

Oh and to the "senile remark Fck you you fcking little cowardice piece of sht. Just like in the real world the rule of law neither applies here either. You violate the rules of decorum constantly why shouldn't I. So again go fck yourself you little fcking dick sucking azzhole.

It's so fun to turn you into my little puppet who can't control himself <333
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,225
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3/23/2013 10:42:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 10:38:52 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/23/2013 9:05:48 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/23/2013 6:47:15 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/23/2013 5:11:02 PM, sadolite wrote:

No, I live in reality.

Clearly you dont... Socialism and Capitalism arent like matter and Anti-matter where they cant ever exist at the same time... Its possible to have a combination of both at the same time and you apparently cant accept that.

Capitalism cannot exist if the rule of law is going to be manipulated to accommodate socialist agendas such as Obamacare.

Opinion.

Legal financial contracts mean nothing anymore.

Opinion.

They can be thrown away like a gum wrapper.

Opinion.

Bailing companies out that make bad decisions is not capitalism.

Opinion

You go ahead and think what you want. I am older and I know what capitalism is and how it thrives.

Doubt it

What this govt is doing is not even in the remotest of remotest of terms encouraging capitalism or making it thrive. The down side of capitolism must be adhered to for it to work.

Opinion

Failure and loss of everything for poor financial decisions and a strict adherence to the rule of law and financial contracts. Without these two things pursuing capitalism in any so called "semi" form or pure form is a waste of time.

Opinion

It will fail and it will be defeated.

Opinion

Now go fill out your 15 page application for your "FREE" govt health care that wont cost anybody any money. Drink the koolaid.

Senile

"Capitalism arent like matter and Anti-matter where they cant ever exist at the same time..." Oh you mean like it is being done now? Ya that's working out real well.

Oh and to the "senile remark Fck you you fcking little cowardice piece of sht. Just like in the real world the rule of law neither applies here either. You violate the rules of decorum constantly why shouldn't I. So again go fck yourself you little fcking dick sucking azzhole.

It's so fun to turn you into my little puppet who can't control himself <333

Meanie.
BigSky
Posts: 141
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3/23/2013 11:01:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 4:01:01 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
At 3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama.

I would have voted for him if I could, not because I liked him but because Romney was worse. Actually, I would have voted for a 3rd Party rep.

The only reason you don't like Romney is because of the media.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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3/24/2013 9:04:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The arguments presented against "Obamacare" are virtually identical to those presented by Ronald Reagan against Medicare in a 1961 speech. Which he claimed would lead to socialism. So we've been living in a socialist dystopia for the past 50 years already!
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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3/24/2013 10:03:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 11:01:37 PM, BigSky wrote:
At 3/23/2013 4:01:01 PM, THEVIRUS wrote:
At 3/23/2013 3:35:35 PM, sadolite wrote:
Roy, More than half of America voted for Obama.

I would have voted for him if I could, not because I liked him but because Romney was worse. Actually, I would have voted for a 3rd Party rep.

The only reason you don't like Romney is because of the media.

Well...should 47% be also attributed to the fault of the media?
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/24/2013 11:33:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/24/2013 9:04:22 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
The arguments presented against "Obamacare" are virtually identical to those presented by Ronald Reagan against Medicare in a 1961 speech. Which he claimed would lead to socialism. So we've been living in a socialist dystopia for the past 50 years already!

Obamacare shoves millions of people onto a broken Medicaid system. Medicaid, which pays low reimbursement rates, is unfair for doctors, so the majority of health providers refuse to see Medicaid patients. Also, it is health insurance. People need less of that.

Obamacare adds tens of thousands of pages of regulations and mandates, many of which are yet to be added.

Many new taxes are created, including a tax on medical devices which increases costs and reduces innovation.

Plus, the individual tax reduces individual freedom. Some people don't want to have health insurance. They should be free to do whatever is in their best interest as long as it doesn't harm others. It is their right to pursue happiness.

Also it will cost over a trillion dollars in the next decade.

Paul Ryan's (initial) plan was better. Medicaid is transformed into a voucher. If you live in poverty, you get a $5000 voucher to purchase health care, but you own this money, so you personally go to doctors, so a consumer market system is established. A health care market is what we need.

The size of the voucher is reduced on a sliding scale, so that you receive a voucher up until you make 200% of the poverty level.

Medicaid patients would have much greater access to health care, that is more affordable. They are cost conscious, so they reduce personal health care expenditures. It is the right way of reform.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/24/2013 11:34:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/23/2013 8:58:53 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/23/2013 7:24:57 PM, Contra wrote:
Military spending probably wouldn't of changed, his presidential campaign admitted that any increase in military spending would probably be unrealistic due to budget problems.
You don't change your political message prior to the election. A mistake that shows that Romney was no better than President Obama.

Note though, the last Republican campaign had plenty of flaws though, which is why they lost. They were unrealistic and harsh with immigration. They were not effective at communicating their message, especially with the Latino and female voters.
I believe Romney made a grievous mistake by adhering to Paul Ryan's plan. His budget plan simply defies the rule of mathematics. When President Obama asked how Mr. Romney would fix the budget, Romney simply replied that "of course it will work." Would anyone be convinced by such a bad argument?

It was a bad rebuttal. The Romney campaign should have specified more waste which they would eliminate, such as the agricultural research program.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
TheElderScroll
Posts: 643
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3/24/2013 11:42:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/24/2013 11:34:57 AM, Contra wrote:
At 3/23/2013 8:58:53 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/23/2013 7:24:57 PM, Contra wrote:
Military spending probably wouldn't of changed, his presidential campaign admitted that any increase in military spending would probably be unrealistic due to budget problems.
You don't change your political message prior to the election. A mistake that shows that Romney was no better than President Obama.

Note though, the last Republican campaign had plenty of flaws though, which is why they lost. They were unrealistic and harsh with immigration. They were not effective at communicating their message, especially with the Latino and female voters.
I believe Romney made a grievous mistake by adhering to Paul Ryan's plan. His budget plan simply defies the rule of mathematics. When President Obama asked how Mr. Romney would fix the budget, Romney simply replied that "of course it will work." Would anyone be convinced by such a bad argument?

It was a bad rebuttal. The Romney campaign should have specified more waste which they would eliminate, such as the agricultural research program.

Indeed. Mr.Romney would be a terrific president if he understood how to campaign properly. Yet the very result suggests that he was no better than President Obama, campaign-wise of course.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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3/24/2013 11:55:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/24/2013 11:42:47 AM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/24/2013 11:34:57 AM, Contra wrote:
At 3/23/2013 8:58:53 PM, TheElderScroll wrote:
At 3/23/2013 7:24:57 PM, Contra wrote:
Military spending probably wouldn't of changed, his presidential campaign admitted that any increase in military spending would probably be unrealistic due to budget problems.
You don't change your political message prior to the election. A mistake that shows that Romney was no better than President Obama.

Note though, the last Republican campaign had plenty of flaws though, which is why they lost. They were unrealistic and harsh with immigration. They were not effective at communicating their message, especially with the Latino and female voters.
I believe Romney made a grievous mistake by adhering to Paul Ryan's plan. His budget plan simply defies the rule of mathematics. When President Obama asked how Mr. Romney would fix the budget, Romney simply replied that "of course it will work." Would anyone be convinced by such a bad argument?

It was a bad rebuttal. The Romney campaign should have specified more waste which they would eliminate, such as the agricultural research program.

Indeed. Mr.Romney would be a terrific president if he understood how to campaign properly. Yet the very result suggests that he was no better than President Obama, campaign-wise of course.

I agree so much. We did lose out on a good opportunity for restoring our growth and prosperity, but yes again, the campaign ran was flawed.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan