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Ontological argument against God?

KingDebater
Posts: 687
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3/27/2013 1:20:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why is the modal ontological argument for the non-existence of God unsound? It's the same as the modal ontological argument for the existence of God, except that it says that it's possible that a maximally great being does not exist, etc.
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,355
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9/14/2014 10:44:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
sighz....

Necroposting ftw
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Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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9/14/2014 10:48:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2013 1:20:17 PM, KingDebater wrote:
Why is the modal ontological argument for the non-existence of God unsound? It's the same as the modal ontological argument for the existence of God, except that it says that it's possible that a maximally great being does not exist, etc.

For the same reason why the modal ontological argument FOR the existence of God is unsound, there is just no way to demonstrate the 'possibility' premise as true.

I only present it as a refutation of the MOA, rather than as an argument in itself, to highlight how the MOA fails.
Toviyah
Posts: 88
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9/14/2014 3:25:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2013 1:20:17 PM, KingDebater wrote:
Why is the modal ontological argument for the non-existence of God unsound? It's the same as the modal ontological argument for the existence of God, except that it says that it's possible that a maximally great being does not exist, etc.
It is an argument which, instead of 'God possibly exists', uses 'God possibly does not exist', using the same logic.
Unfortunately, it isn't great as an argument: the logic isn't the same. While God is a conceptual truth (and S5 can and is applied), all the 'plugs' (or so they call them) are contingent truths where all S5 establishes is the possibility in all possible worlds, which doesn't prove much (all it shows is the logical coherence in all possible worlds, which we already know from formulating the idea). It is comparing apples and oranges.
n7
Posts: 1,360
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9/14/2014 4:36:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Dead thread, rise from your tomb!
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Uphold Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Sargonist-n7ism.
n7
Posts: 1,360
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9/14/2014 4:38:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
To actually answer OP, if God can possibly not exist in one possible world, then there must be some property of his that is logically incoherent to prevent him from existing in that world. At least that's how I've seen theists defend it.
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Uphold Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Sargonist-n7ism.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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9/14/2014 4:49:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2013 1:20:17 PM, KingDebater wrote:
Why is the modal ontological argument for the non-existence of God unsound? It's the same as the modal ontological argument for the existence of God, except that it says that it's possible that a maximally great being does not exist, etc.

It's because at best, all it would prove is that a maximally great being does not exist. It still could be that a maximally excellent being exists, and that would qualify as God.

FYI for those unfamiliar with the argument, a Maximally Excellent being is a being that is all powerful, all knowing, and wholly good. A Maximally Great being is a being that has maximal excellent in all possible worlds.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle