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Spelling and Grammar

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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3/29/2013 9:22:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Some debaters are so terrible at writing that they:

1) Quote inside a debate.

2) Bold and Underline entire paragraphs, write a lot of words in caps.

3) Use a better font than the default one.

My opinion:

1) If you really have so much character space that you quoted your opponent, you don't really have much to say which means you haven't debated optimally.

2) Why do you believe that bolding/underlining entire paragraphs makes it more likely that people will read it? Have you tried in from the reader's perspective? Do you instantly gravitate bolded/underlined paragraphs? Do they have more impact on you than regular paragraphs do? I bet not.

3) Verdana is generally accepted to be the best font for reading on a computer screen. It is sans-serif which makes it neat and tidy, it is easy on the eyes, and it looks professional. Whatever other font you have in mind just won't be as good. Verdana is the default for a reason, not because Juggle used an RNG to determine which font is the default. Times New Roman is good for printed text but not so much for online.

I think the Spelling and Grammar point should take these things into consideration. I will use these and other methods to evaluate SG like:
- overall presentation, long paragraphs etc.
- More easy and fluid to read.
- Proper headings bolded or underlined. DDO debates don't take place in a plain text editor.
- Italics instead of caps for emphasis.
- Organization of points by heading rather than just rambling on.
Subutai
Posts: 3,223
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3/29/2013 9:49:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
That's a great post and an excellent point.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/29/2013 9:50:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I personally hate the default text. Every instance of i's or l's placed adjacent to one another in your paragraph bothers me.

I much prefer Helvetica and Arial, and I don't think that there's anywhere near a consensus that Verdana is the easiest to read.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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3/29/2013 9:54:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yeah, I don't think you should vote against somebody based on font unless the font is REALLY bad. Because whatever font is the best is a matter of opinion.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Sola.Gratia
Posts: 278
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3/29/2013 10:15:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 9:22:03 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Some debaters are so terrible at writing that they:

1) Quote inside a debate.

2) Bold and Underline entire paragraphs, write a lot of words in caps.

3) Use a better font than the default one.

My opinion:

1) If you really have so much character space that you quoted your opponent, you don't really have much to say which means you haven't debated optimally.

2) Why do you believe that bolding/underlining entire paragraphs makes it more likely that people will read it? Have you tried in from the reader's perspective? Do you instantly gravitate bolded/underlined paragraphs? Do they have more impact on you than regular paragraphs do? I bet not.

3) Verdana is generally accepted to be the best font for reading on a computer screen. It is sans-serif which makes it neat and tidy, it is easy on the eyes, and it looks professional. Whatever other font you have in mind just won't be as good. Verdana is the default for a reason, not because Juggle used an RNG to determine which font is the default. Times New Roman is good for printed text but not so much for online.

I think the Spelling and Grammar point should take these things into consideration. I will use these and other methods to evaluate SG like:
- overall presentation, long paragraphs etc.
- More easy and fluid to read.
- Proper headings bolded or underlined. DDO debates don't take place in a plain text editor.
- Italics instead of caps for emphasis.
- Organization of points by heading rather than just rambling on.

I actually never understood what the point of highlighting or holding or anything like was for? I'm just smile and to think when it comes to responding. I guess everyone has different likings so idk if Id count those things against them or deduct points.
"What is sin? It is the glory of God not honored. Holiness of God not reverenced. Greatness of God not admired. Power of God not praised. Truth of God not sought. Wisdom of God not esteemed. Beauty of God not treasured. Goodness of God not savored. Faithfulness of God not trusted. Commandments of God not obeyed. Justice of God not respected. Wrath of God not feared. Grace of God not cherished. Presence of God not prized. Person of God not loved. That is sin." ~John Piper
My-Self
Posts: 92
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3/29/2013 11:21:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 9:50:38 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I personally hate the default text. Every instance of i's or l's placed adjacent to one another in your paragraph bothers me.

I much prefer Helvetica and Arial, and I don't think that there's anywhere near a consensus that Verdana is the easiest to read.

Helvetica is considered the best font ever created.
"Genesis could be compatible with anything. Theologians are great at mental gymnastics." ~ phantom
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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3/29/2013 11:26:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 9:22:03 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Some debaters are so terrible at writing that they:

1) Quote inside a debate.

Terrible.

2) Bold and Underline entire paragraphs, write a lot of words in caps.

That would be irritating. But I like the "all caps" approach to emphasizing things. It's easier than going back and editing the formatting.

3) Use a better font than the default one.

I'm a whore for Times New Roman, but that's just me.

My opinion:

1) If you really have so much character space that you quoted your opponent, you don't really have much to say which means you haven't debated optimally.

I agree.

2) Why do you believe that bolding/underlining entire paragraphs makes it more likely that people will read it? Have you tried in from the reader's perspective? Do you instantly gravitate bolded/underlined paragraphs? Do they have more impact on you than regular paragraphs do? I bet not.

I agree with this too.

3) Verdana is generally accepted to be the best font for reading on a computer screen. It is sans-serif which makes it neat and tidy, it is easy on the eyes, and it looks professional. Whatever other font you have in mind just won't be as good. Verdana is the default for a reason, not because Juggle used an RNG to determine which font is the default. Times New Roman is good for printed text but not so much for online.

Ehh... I'm a whore for Times New Roman anyway. Both on and off screen -but the regular font for DDO is fine with me.

I think the Spelling and Grammar point should take these things into consideration. I will use these and other methods to evaluate SG like:
- overall presentation, long paragraphs etc.
- More easy and fluid to read.
- Proper headings bolded or underlined. DDO debates don't take place in a plain text editor.
- Italics instead of caps for emphasis.
- Organization of points by heading rather than just rambling on.

To an extent, yes.
Tsar of DDO
AStevenson
Posts: 41
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3/29/2013 11:48:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So I can see grammar and spelling is a problem on this website. I just started my first debate, so what can I do to make sure I am not messy.
Raisor
Posts: 4,461
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3/30/2013 12:40:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 11:48:44 PM, AStevenson wrote:
So I can see grammar and spelling is a problem on this website. I just started my first debate, so what can I do to make sure I am not messy.

Don't spell things wrong and don't use bad grammar.
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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3/30/2013 12:55:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/30/2013 12:40:02 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 3/29/2013 11:48:44 PM, AStevenson wrote:
So I can see grammar and spelling is a problem on this website. I just started my first debate, so what can I do to make sure I am not messy.

Don't spell things wrong and don't use bad grammar.

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And that's what I have to say about that.

roflmao
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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3/31/2013 12:34:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:29:00 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
YYW, would you like to debate me on whether Verdana is better than Times New Roman?

lol... that would be an interesting debate, but I don't even know how I would be able to ground that claim. I just like Times New Roman... my liking it doesn't make it better or worse than all the others though. I do think that Sans Serif probably beats Verdana, but only because of the history behind the font.

http://www.webreference.com...
Tsar of DDO
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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3/31/2013 12:37:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/29/2013 11:48:44 PM, AStevenson wrote:
So I can see grammar and spelling is a problem on this website. I just started my first debate, so what can I do to make sure I am not messy.

To set off quoted material, set it off by starting the line with a colon.

See how what you wrote, at the top of this post, is obviously quoted because of the indent? Now click "Reply and Quote," as if you are going to respond to this post, and see how the quoted bits start with a colon.

DDO makes it interesting by changing the functionality of the colons in different circumstances, but here in the forums, and in actual debate, you only need one colon at the top of each quoted paragraph.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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3/31/2013 12:38:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Doesn't Sans Serif refer to an entire class of fonts? I believe Serif fonts are the ones that include the small finishing strokes at the end of characters while Sans Serif fonts lack those strokes. Times New Roman is a serif font along with others like Georgia while Verdana is a sans-serif font along with others like Arial, Tahoma, and Comic Sans.
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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3/31/2013 12:42:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:38:30 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Doesn't Sans Serif refer to an entire class of fonts? I believe Serif fonts are the ones that include the small finishing strokes at the end of characters while Sans Serif fonts lack those strokes. Times New Roman is a serif font along with others like Georgia while Verdana is a sans-serif font along with others like Arial, Tahoma, and Comic Sans.

I'm sure you know more about it than I do, but specifically what I was referring to was the Sans Serif typeface used in the Bauhaus sign.

Halmark of Modernism:

http://www.pedromoneo.com...

Love it... but I'm weird. I really don't know much about fonts, only that Sans Serif is cool and I like to read stuff in Times New Roman.
Tsar of DDO
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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3/31/2013 1:11:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 12:42:35 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/31/2013 12:38:30 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Doesn't Sans Serif refer to an entire class of fonts? I believe Serif fonts are the ones that include the small finishing strokes at the end of characters while Sans Serif fonts lack those strokes. Times New Roman is a serif font along with others like Georgia while Verdana is a sans-serif font along with others like Arial, Tahoma, and Comic Sans.

I'm sure you know more about it than I do, but specifically what I was referring to was the Sans Serif typeface used in the Bauhaus sign.

Halmark of Modernism:

http://www.pedromoneo.com...

Love it... but I'm weird. I really don't know much about fonts, only that Sans Serif is cool and I like to read stuff in Times New Roman.

Sans-serif fonts (And they are a type. All fonts are either serif or sans-serif) are often less "impressive" (which is not to knock them, I'm a fan); they're also considered harder to read for large blocks of text, which is why newspapers are always written in a serif (generally Times New Roman) font.

The Bauhaus sign is interesting in its own right to a font-nerd, its type belongs to the "Bauhaus" type family (though, I do not recollect its specific font name at present; it's not ITC Bauhaus, that's for sure).

Little-known fact? The most reviled font in all of typesetting, Comic Sans, is often considered the easiest for dyslexics to read.

Sorry; I'll stop word-nerding now.

Side note: the Helvetica documentary, (in Netflix now!) is actually super cool. But my opinion probably shouldn't count to someone who wouldn't already be interested in seeing it.
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bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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3/31/2013 1:16:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
On the topic of the OP, though, I believe that the colon trick does not work in debates; I am fairly certain I've tried it, and while I've never submitted it, as I recollect, when I clicked "review", it didn't actually auto-quote the text, it just printed the colon. If it did work, I would have used it, I'm fair certain, and looking through my own debates, I haven't.
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wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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3/31/2013 1:44:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/31/2013 1:16:09 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
On the topic of the OP, though, I believe that the colon trick does not work in debates; I am fairly certain I've tried it, and while I've never submitted it, as I recollect, when I clicked "review", it didn't actually auto-quote the text, it just printed the colon. If it did work, I would have used it, I'm fair certain, and looking through my own debates, I haven't.

You are correct. So, one way to cope is to boldface quoted material, and write your new material un-bolded. Another way is to fake it by putting a colon at the beginning of every quoted line. That requires adding a carriage return before the colon, on lines that don't already have the carriage return. That's more work. Boldfacing is easier.