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Video Game Characters in UTW

mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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11/16/2009 4:13:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
For all of you Ultimate Team War enthusiasts, this is to discuss how video game characters should properly be incorporated into Ultimate Team War, as this seems to have been a problem with my last challenge.

The primary problem is how powerful a video game characters should be. My opinion is that a video game character should he in his most powerful, end-game state. This would be comparable to how if one were to choose any character from any running media, such as a TV show or manga, that person would get to choose their character from any point in the series (probably the end), and a person using a character from a book would get to choose from when in the book they're taking their character. Thus, it only seems fair that the same would apply for video game characters. The other view is that video game characters should be at their "general" level, although this presents problems. What qualifies as Link's "general" level? Video game characters have none.

Another problem is items and such. In video games, characters often have a limit as to how many items they can hold. This leaves a few options. One, the character can use any items through the course of the battle as long as he does not exceed his limit. This allows for the manipulation of items held after the fact, which could prove abusive. The other idea is for items to be announced with the choosing of the character, which makes sense in the context of games in general. The final itead is to have "general" items, although htis falls flat as it is impossible for Paper Mario to have his "general" ten items. He has no "general" items.

Discuss. I'm not really starting any more UTW debates until this problem gets resolved.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/16/2009 5:37:03 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/16/2009 4:13:24 PM, mongeese wrote:
For all of you Ultimate Team War enthusiasts, this is to discuss how video game characters should properly be incorporated into Ultimate Team War, as this seems to have been a problem with my last challenge.

The primary problem is how powerful a video game characters should be. My opinion is that a video game character should he in his most powerful, end-game state. This would be comparable to how if one were to choose any character from any running media, such as a TV show or manga, that person would get to choose their character from any point in the series (probably the end), and a person using a character from a book would get to choose from when in the book they're taking their character. Thus, it only seems fair that the same would apply for video game characters. The other view is that video game characters should be at their "general" level, although this presents problems. What qualifies as Link's "general" level? Video game characters have none.

Another problem is items and such. In video games, characters often have a limit as to how many items they can hold. This leaves a few options. One, the character can use any items through the course of the battle as long as he does not exceed his limit. This allows for the manipulation of items held after the fact, which could prove abusive. The other idea is for items to be announced with the choosing of the character, which makes sense in the context of games in general. The final itead is to have "general" items, although htis falls flat as it is impossible for Paper Mario to have his "general" ten items. He has no "general" items.

Discuss. I'm not really starting any more UTW debates until this problem gets resolved.

1. Carrying Capacity- Determined by what a character can feasibly hold. Your pokemon trainer can possibly have 99 of each item in the game, but in this battle room, that would make his bag too big to fit through the portal.

2. Power limits- Objects that are very powerful must have their weaknesses carried through to the battle, outside of the game. For example, there are time limits on Mario's Starman. This time limit carries over to the battle room. Kirby's UFO is either time-limited or level-limited, depending on the game. Since the level limitation cannot be carried over, then the UFO must be time limited. Otherwise, it is not canonical.

3. Announcement- Items must be announced. Items are brought into the preparation room based on how much each person can feasibly transport as realistic, street-level characters. The Hulk cannot help Leon from Resident Evil carry massive amounts of guns. Guns are not canonical of the Hulk and Leon can only carry a limited amount in his briefcase. Once they are in the preparation room, items can be distributed as they see fit.

As for the strength level, characters are in their PEN-ultimate form. This means, before the ascension required for the character to beat the last boss, BEFORE requiring the last ultimate upgrade before the game ends, BEFORE the character retrieves the Amulet of Nigh-Invincibility in order to slay the Lich King, BEFORE the knight assembles the 4 Element crystals and gains the godly powers needed to destroy the dragon, etc.

Too many games end with the character in a hyper-inflated form in order to defeat a hyper-inflated boss.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/16/2009 5:46:14 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Oh, furthermore, Pokemon must not only list their 4 moves, but also their PP as well. In the case that the anime Pokemon are being used, where moves are unlimited and PP is based on fatigue of the pokemon, sources must be cited for everything else, such as for items, moves used in the anime, resistances, etc.

Video Game pokemon =/= anime pokemon. You cannot mix and match sources. My suggestion is that if you are using a pokemon, you use only videogamesources and videogame canon.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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11/16/2009 6:18:21 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/16/2009 5:37:03 PM, Kleptin wrote:
1. Carrying Capacity- Determined by what a character can feasibly hold. Your pokemon trainer can possibly have 99 of each item in the game, but in this battle room, that would make his bag too big to fit through the portal.
Actually, the bag seems to have some magical hammerspace property, as it can hold 999 of every item and still fit on one's shoulders. That's just another property of video game characters, hammerspace. Of course, not all hammerspaces are equal. Paper Mario's is very limited.

2. Power limits- Objects that are very powerful must have their weaknesses carried through to the battle, outside of the game. For example, there are time limits on Mario's Starman. This time limit carries over to the battle room. Kirby's UFO is either time-limited or level-limited, depending on the game. Since the level limitation cannot be carried over, then the UFO must be time limited. Otherwise, it is not canonical.
The UFO is time-limited in some games? I never knew that. Of course, the level-limit could still apply. It would mean that Kirby can only have UFO in certain UTW settings, such as Ender's Game. As for time limits, definitely.

3. Announcement- Items must be announced. Items are brought into the preparation room based on how much each person can feasibly transport as realistic, street-level characters. The Hulk cannot help Leon from Resident Evil carry massive amounts of guns. Guns are not canonical of the Hulk and Leon can only carry a limited amount in his briefcase. Once they are in the preparation room, items can be distributed as they see fit.
Agree.

As for the strength level, characters are in their PEN-ultimate form. This means, before the ascension required for the character to beat the last boss, BEFORE requiring the last ultimate upgrade before the game ends, BEFORE the character retrieves the Amulet of Nigh-Invincibility in order to slay the Lich King, BEFORE the knight assembles the 4 Element crystals and gains the godly powers needed to destroy the dragon, etc.

Too many games end with the character in a hyper-inflated form in order to defeat a hyper-inflated boss.

Well, this would go along with the idea that in most video games, it doesn't even save the defeat of the last boss. Hyper-inflated forms would probably violate street-level rules. Of course, in UTWs in which street-level restrictions are not in place, they would just have to not violate the no-limits rule.

For the most part, I think we agree on things.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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11/16/2009 6:21:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/16/2009 5:46:14 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Oh, furthermore, Pokemon must not only list their 4 moves, but also their PP as well.
If PP is unannounced, it would be assumed that no PP-ups have been used, but any Pokemon would enter battle with full PP unless otherwise noted.
In the case that the anime Pokemon are being used, where moves are unlimited and PP is based on fatigue of the pokemon, sources must be cited for everything else, such as for items, moves used in the anime, resistances, etc.
Bulbapedia FTW.

Video Game pokemon =/= anime pokemon. You cannot mix and match sources. My suggestion is that if you are using a pokemon, you use only videogamesources and videogame canon.
Unless, of course, you say that you are only using the anime as a canon, which wouldn't violate any rules. Anime Mewtwo >>> Video Game Mewtwo.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/16/2009 9:05:07 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/16/2009 6:21:33 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 11/16/2009 5:46:14 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Oh, furthermore, Pokemon must not only list their 4 moves, but also their PP as well.
If PP is unannounced, it would be assumed that no PP-ups have been used, but any Pokemon would enter battle with full PP unless otherwise noted.
In the case that the anime Pokemon are being used, where moves are unlimited and PP is based on fatigue of the pokemon, sources must be cited for everything else, such as for items, moves used in the anime, resistances, etc.
Bulbapedia FTW.

Video Game pokemon =/= anime pokemon. You cannot mix and match sources. My suggestion is that if you are using a pokemon, you use only videogamesources and videogame canon.
Unless, of course, you say that you are only using the anime as a canon, which wouldn't violate any rules. Anime Mewtwo >>> Video Game Mewtwo.

Anime Mewtwo is not street level, and arguing based on the anime is very, very confusing XD
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/16/2009 9:44:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
If you don't mind, I'm going to turn this topic into the "questions about the debate" topic.

First, a few notes on the things above:

1. Hammerspace is acceptable. However, I would like a full list of the items each character is carrying. I will supply the same.

2. The UFO Kirby has different restrictions in different games. If you are going to use him, you should specify which canon.

As for some specific things:

Team Member 1: Lucas [1]

Please list all the items you intend to bring.

Team Member 2: Link, Hero of Twilight [5]

Please list the items that link has on his person, and what canon of the Zelda games you will specifically be bringing link out of?

Team Member 3: Alakazam [7]

I assume you are going to go with the game canon, meaning that anything in the anime should not be mixed in. Also, since statistics only serve to calculate damage that pokemon do to other pokemon, how do you plan on explaining your stats if I don't decide to fight with pokemon?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.