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Airmax Administration Transparency

airmax1227
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5/10/2013 8:34:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So in the past week a couple of members have stated to me publicly and privately that my administration has at times, or in general, lacked transparency. While I haven't gotten very good explanations for why they feel this way, or how I should approach things differently, I want to address this complaint and do my best to resolve it.

So in an effort to remove any shadow of a doubt regarding transparency, I am going to take some steps to display it as prominently and directly as possible.

While I have taken some steps in the past; active members know they can always contact me and ask whatever they like, there is a thread called "ask the DDO president", I "friend" and contact new members constantly telling them who I am and letting them know they can contact me should they need anything; and I've regularly volunteered to do interviews, I want to be sure that my openness and willingness to be transparent is abundantly clear.

So here's what I've come up with: (feel free to suggest anything else you would like that contributes to this goal)

1) On a weekly basis I will post a thread that will act as a weekly administration 'press conference'. I will run down the recent things that the administration has been up to (though in a slow week there wont be much to say) and members will then be able to ask and contribute whatever they like.

2) I will do regular PM interviews that will be posted in the DDO forums. Any member who would like to conduct an interview, contact me via PM and ask whatever you like.

3) I'll request that other willing members of the administration answer questions and do interviews in the near future.

...

So any member who would like to interview me, contact me any time you like. While I am slightly concerned this much transparency might cause some Max-lash, (IE: an over abundance of me, which I feel is generally enjoyed in small doses) nonetheless I want to be able to convey as much openness to the community as possible and through this I think we may also best be able to get even more feedback and improve the site to an even greater degree.

So with all that said let's start the first weekly DDO administration press conference:

DDO Election

This week has been mostly about the upcoming DDO election. I've given thought to my future as president, and as most of you know I decided it would be best if I ran again. I spent a lot of time talking with other members and came to the conclusion I did.

VP

I've spent time considering who should be the VP. Replacing Freedo isn't such an easy thing, as he has meant a lot at that position, so I've wanted to talk to members and be sure to make the right choice. While there is plenty of time, I don't want this to drag on longer than it should, so I hope to have a choice in place soon.

Official DDO Tournaments

We do official DDO Tournaments every so often. Lately there hasn't been one because I have not had the time to micromanage these as I have in the past. Thankfully, 4 members have agreed to moderate them.

These will be 4 smaller tournaments at 8 participants a piece for the sake of simplicity and time. They will consist of 2 basic tourneys, a beginners tournament and one that uses Jury voting. Lannan, 1DevisAdvocate, Cybertron and 16Kadams will moderate each of these tournaments, as I will mostly just check on them to make sure they are running smoothly. Once these 4 have concluded we will have had 6 official tournaments, following the next 2, having then done 8, I hope all of the winners will be willing to take place in a tournament of champions. These 4 tournaments will have sign ups posted next week.

If other members would like to contribute in the future to these as moderators or with ideas let me know.

Voting Privileges

I removed the voting privileges of GeekiTheGreat today. This was actually under consideration since yesterday, but I wanted some feedback and had hoped that a warning would suffice. It appears that a removal of his voting privileges is appropriate in this case, and will be so indefinitely pending the next conversation that I have with him.

...

So that's the rundown of what has been going on lately. Feel free to ask any questions that you may have.

Thanks.
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Contra
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5/10/2013 9:05:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 9:00:26 PM, YYW wrote:
That is a fantastic idea, Airmax.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
larztheloser
Posts: 857
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5/10/2013 9:42:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm glad things are going to be done.

At 5/10/2013 8:34:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
So in the past week a couple of members have stated to me publicly and privately that my administration has at times, or in general, lacked transparency. While I haven't gotten very good explanations for why they feel this way, or how I should approach things differently, I want to address this complaint and do my best to resolve it.

I must apologize for any role I might have had in this. It has never been my intention to criticize your performance, just to effectively point out areas of the site which could be improved.

1) On a weekly basis I will post a thread that will act as a weekly administration 'press conference'. I will run down the recent things that the administration has been up to (though in a slow week there wont be much to say) and members will then be able to ask and contribute whatever they like.

This is exactly what the site needs. These should not just talk about what you've been up to of course, but other important things that you haven't dealt with, reasons for your decisions, and other stuff that I can only assume goes without saying.

2) I will do regular PM interviews that will be posted in the DDO forums. Any member who would like to conduct an interview, contact me via PM and ask whatever you like.

This is what you do right now, isn't it? The problem as I see it is that members don't really care much about the presidency because it isn't very visible.

3) I'll request that other willing members of the administration answer questions and do interviews in the near future.

Why is this optional and not required in your administration?

So any member who would like to interview me, contact me any time you like. While I am slightly concerned this much transparency might cause some Max-lash, (IE: an over abundance of me, which I feel is generally enjoyed in small doses) nonetheless I want to be able to convey as much openness to the community as possible and through this I think we may also best be able to get even more feedback and improve the site to an even greater degree.

An over-abundance of you is precisely what we need.

In fact, I'm concerned that these ideas preach to the converted - there's no shortage of support you have among people that read your posts, and a great deal of indifference out there on DDO.

To that end here's what I would suggest:

* Respecting those users who might need the benefits of the community without being involved themselves. That might mean regularly messaging active members who aren't forum users to check that everything's still going well. You can't expect everyone to post/look on the forums.

* A focus on non-forum activity in your roundups, similar to how Juggle emphasizes opinion activity, to give debaters a reason to be involved. One of my ideas (although I didn't include it in my platform as it would require a fair deal of work, despite the fact that it's a very good idea) was to link recent issues to topical posts, debates and opinions, to create some integration between the three otherwise separate areas of the site.

* If you are going to have a team, make sure that clear lines of accountability are established. Ensure there is a process for dealing with behavior the community does not approve of.

So with all that said let's start the first weekly DDO administration press conference:

A few observations on this:

* It's all forum stuff

* It's just news. What had GeekiTheGreat done, for example?

* And I'm guessing by now you know my thoughts about tournaments (:

Good luck with your campaign!
YYW
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5/10/2013 9:44:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 9:42:25 PM, larztheloser wrote:
What had GeekiTheGreat done, for example?

Go to his profile and read over the votes he's cast.
larztheloser
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5/10/2013 9:48:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 9:44:25 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/10/2013 9:42:25 PM, larztheloser wrote:
What had GeekiTheGreat done, for example?

Go to his profile and read over the votes he's cast.

That's a fluke for this specific case. In another case, a user might have like 100 votebombs among 200 votes. Moreover, I think it would be more useful for the community if the specific votes were mentioned and the reasons why they were votebombs made explicit. This sets a much greater precedent and is more likely to encourage good voting behavior. We're not out to get people here, and this isn't about the user - it's about bad voting in general and (most importantly) how we can improve it.
imabench
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5/10/2013 9:52:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 9:48:10 PM, larztheloser wrote:
At 5/10/2013 9:44:25 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/10/2013 9:42:25 PM, larztheloser wrote:
What had GeekiTheGreat done, for example?

Go to his profile and read over the votes he's cast.

That's a fluke for this specific case. In another case, a user might have like 100 votebombs among 200 votes. Moreover, I think it would be more useful for the community if the specific votes were mentioned and the reasons why they were votebombs made explicit.

I'll add that to the list of other absurd propositions you think would be useful...

This sets a much greater precedent and is more likely to encourage good voting behavior. We're not out to get people here, and this isn't about the user - it's about bad voting in general and (most importantly) how we can improve it.
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OberHerr
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5/10/2013 9:54:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 9:48:10 PM, larztheloser wrote:
At 5/10/2013 9:44:25 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/10/2013 9:42:25 PM, larztheloser wrote:
What had GeekiTheGreat done, for example?

Go to his profile and read over the votes he's cast.

That's a fluke for this specific case. In another case, a user might have like 100 votebombs among 200 votes. Moreover, I think it would be more useful for the community if the specific votes were mentioned and the reasons why they were votebombs made explicit. This sets a much greater precedent and is more likely to encourage good voting behavior. We're not out to get people here, and this isn't about the user - it's about bad voting in general and (most importantly) how we can improve it.

Someone obviously has no idea how many people get banned, and how pointless this is.

And, how would this encourage good VBing? By holding the banned idiots heads on a stick? What? People who VB are gonna VB and vote regardless of how publicized the banned are.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

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YYW
Posts: 36,239
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5/10/2013 9:55:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 9:48:10 PM, larztheloser wrote:
At 5/10/2013 9:44:25 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/10/2013 9:42:25 PM, larztheloser wrote:
What had GeekiTheGreat done, for example?

Go to his profile and read over the votes he's cast.

That's a fluke for this specific case. In another case, a user might have like 100 votebombs among 200 votes. Moreover, I think it would be more useful for the community if the specific votes were mentioned and the reasons why they were votebombs made explicit. This sets a much greater precedent and is more likely to encourage good voting behavior. We're not out to get people here, and this isn't about the user - it's about bad voting in general and (most importantly) how we can improve it.

I've always been a fan of addressing HR like problems (as this is) as they arise on a case by case basis, which is what was done here. The issue now is the user mentioned. Voting generally is a separate issue for another time.
airmax1227
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5/10/2013 10:07:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 9:42:25 PM, larztheloser wrote:
I'm glad things are going to be done.

At 5/10/2013 8:34:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
So in the past week a couple of members have stated to me publicly and privately that my administration has at times, or in general, lacked transparency. While I haven't gotten very good explanations for why they feel this way, or how I should approach things differently, I want to address this complaint and do my best to resolve it.

I must apologize for any role I might have had in this. It has never been my intention to criticize your performance, just to effectively point out areas of the site which could be improved.

No worries, it's a good way to be more proactive with the community so I'm glad I was pushed a bit into doing it. But it wasn't just you anyway, a couple of members had mentioned it a few times before you had begun your campaign.

1) On a weekly basis I will post a thread that will act as a weekly administration 'press conference'. I will run down the recent things that the administration has been up to (though in a slow week there wont be much to say) and members will then be able to ask and contribute whatever they like.

This is exactly what the site needs. These should not just talk about what you've been up to of course, but other important things that you haven't dealt with, reasons for your decisions, and other stuff that I can only assume goes without saying.

2) I will do regular PM interviews that will be posted in the DDO forums. Any member who would like to conduct an interview, contact me via PM and ask whatever you like.

This is what you do right now, isn't it? The problem as I see it is that members don't really care much about the presidency because it isn't very visible.

That might be party true, but I don't think most members care because it largely wont effect them. Members who just want to do the occasional debate and read the occasional forum thread aren't that invested in this. It's the very active members who are involved in both the community (and by extension the forums) and debating that are invested in what the president does, and are aware of what I have done, and what the presidency means in general. Our voting turnout isn't that great, 50 votes is high turnout. But those are the members who care the most and they know what's happening. Those 50 members also reflect a decent consensus of opinions as well and it's their voting, posting and positing ideas that benefits the other hundreds who don't know what is happening and often don't care.

3) I'll request that other willing members of the administration answer questions and do interviews in the near future.

Why is this optional and not required in your administration?

I've publicly said who they are, anyone should feel free to ask them anything they like at anytime they want. To have an admin member available to answer questions from the community at a particular time requires planning, and their permission to be available at that time. But I will be planning this and asking that they do so.

So any member who would like to interview me, contact me any time you like. While I am slightly concerned this much transparency might cause some Max-lash, (IE: an over abundance of me, which I feel is generally enjoyed in small doses) nonetheless I want to be able to convey as much openness to the community as possible and through this I think we may also best be able to get even more feedback and improve the site to an even greater degree.

An over-abundance of you is precisely what we need.

I'm on the site probably more than nearly anyone. My activity isn't reflected in a huge number of posts or public displays but by my availability to respond to members when they need assistance. Every time someone has contacted me in the past year (with a couple exceptions naturally) I have replied to them within 24 hours and helped them with whatever they needed assistance with. But being available in an official capacity at regular intervals does have merit to it and that's what this plan is all about.

In fact, I'm concerned that these ideas preach to the converted - there's no shortage of support you have among people that read your posts, and a great deal of indifference out there on DDO.

We have hundreds and hundreds of members, most are indifferent. Those who care enough are involved in the community or debate a lot. Those who care even more are involved to a greater level by being active in helping the site and/or chatting with me regularly.

To that end here's what I would suggest:

* Respecting those users who might need the benefits of the community without being involved themselves. That might mean regularly messaging active members who aren't forum users to check that everything's still going well. You can't expect everyone to post/look on the forums.

I believe I've been in contact with almost every active member at some point or another. If they are an active debater I have probably spoken to them. I make it a higher priority to contact new members, and this in itself is pretty time consuming, but I also do agree with at least part of what you are saying here and I do reach out to members often. Your point is a valid one and I don't expect that every member is reading the forums.

* A focus on non-forum activity in your roundups, similar to how Juggle emphasizes opinion activity, to give debaters a reason to be involved. One of my ideas (although I didn't include it in my platform as it would require a fair deal of work, despite the fact that it's a very good idea) was to link recent issues to topical posts, debates and opinions, to create some integration between the three otherwise separate areas of the site.

This is a good idea and something we should work towards.

* If you are going to have a team, make sure that clear lines of accountability are established. Ensure there is a process for dealing with behavior the community does not approve of.

I don't disagree with any of that and I don't see how this doesn't already happen.

So with all that said let's start the first weekly DDO administration press conference:

A few observations on this:

* It's all forum stuff

The community manifests itself in the forums. Transparency of the administration is naturally a forum thing.

* It's just news. What had GeekiTheGreat done, for example?

Constant poor voting conduct, was reported several times.

* And I'm guessing by now you know my thoughts about tournaments (:

Good luck with your campaign!

To you as well, thank you.
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airmax1227
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5/10/2013 10:36:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 9:48:10 PM, larztheloser wrote:
At 5/10/2013 9:44:25 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/10/2013 9:42:25 PM, larztheloser wrote:
What had GeekiTheGreat done, for example?

Go to his profile and read over the votes he's cast.

That's a fluke for this specific case. In another case, a user might have like 100 votebombs among 200 votes. Moreover, I think it would be more useful for the community if the specific votes were mentioned and the reasons why they were votebombs made explicit. This sets a much greater precedent and is more likely to encourage good voting behavior. We're not out to get people here, and this isn't about the user - it's about bad voting in general and (most importantly) how we can improve it.

I'm not exactly sure what you are suggesting here. Policing voting conduct is a huge and time consuming endeavor. One of the things I was able to get done as president was making it possible for mods to remove member voting privileges, so we don't have to just ban members outright. These voting-privilege temp bans are usually preempted with a warning, (especially because they are new members who don't realize the expected conduct) then following another blatant offense (like 7 points without explanation, or 'trolling RFDs') their voting privileges are removed, generally for 2 weeks.

Having to display all the offending votes of all of the offending members would naturally be more work for me, and a time consuming affair. While I don't necessarily mind doing this, I'd like to point out that these are cases where the voting conduct is obvious, and even in these cases, other members are asked to weigh in and state that they agree with removing that members voting privileges or told about it just after the fact (so that the offending member can be stopped from voting poorly right away) so they can protest the decision if needed (Which has actually never occurred).

This system, while not perfect, is quick and removes the worst offenders ability to continue to harm the site and is done in a way that makes it so I'm not making these decisions unilaterally. This is similar with conduct temp-bans (which isn't entirely comparable to this- because it often involves member privacy issues), but that's an issue for another time.

There are members who come to the site just intending to ideologically vote poorly or vote bomb all the time. Where once the site was forced to just ban them outright, we now just remove their voting privileges when it becomes obvious that this is what is necessary. It's done with a minimum of red-tape, these members are generally not publicly shamed, and it's been generally quite effective.

But if members would like me to display a list of every member who is having their voting privileges taken away at regular intervals and display the offending votes and why there is a problem with them, then I will do so... so I ask that members weigh in on this.

There are ways we can improve this system and a further explanation of proper voting conduct and the consequence of the lack of it is being drafted currently to be displayed in the DDO forum stickies. If members have any other suggestions or ideas for how policing voting conduct can be improved, feel encouraged to say so or to contact me.
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larztheloser
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5/10/2013 10:44:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 9:54:42 PM, OberHerr wrote:

Someone obviously has no idea how many people get banned, and how pointless this is.

And, how would this encourage good VBing? By holding the banned idiots heads on a stick? What? People who VB are gonna VB and vote regardless of how publicized the banned are.

First of all, VBing is the problem. I don't believe "good VBing" exists. What I'm trying to encourage is an end to votebombing.

This newsletter puts the focus on the banned idiot, not on the vote. This newsletter holds their head on a stick. I agree with you that this is the wrong approach. The right approach is to focus on the vote, not the voter. You're right, bad voters are likely to vote badly. But there are also minorities - people who don't know what a vote really is or what goes in to one is the big one. There's no system for improvement on this site and that means we keep seeing the same results - more and more VBers. These kinds of people are just one example of those who would benefit greatly from seeing votes that got people banned.

Moreover, it also helps transparency. It makes these kinds of decisions appear less arbitrary to those who don't want to spend a lot of time going over and doing the research themselves. Given that this is a debate site and many don't have time or interest in checking forums, I consider this important.

At 5/10/2013 9:55:17 PM, YYW wrote:
I've always been a fan of addressing HR like problems (as this is) as they arise on a case by case basis, which is what was done here. The issue now is the user mentioned. Voting generally is a separate issue for another time.

This is an HR like problem, but talking about it isn't very useful to the community. Big difference between news and the analysis behind the news. It's the same as the difference between a TV channel reporting that the economy collapses, and another that reports on economics more generally, to give viewers an understanding of WHY the economy collapsed. Different issue but directly relevant and FAR more useful going forward.

At 5/10/2013 10:07:41 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
That might be party true, but I don't think most members care because it largely wont effect them. Members who just want to do the occasional debate and read the occasional forum thread aren't that invested in this. It's the very active members who are involved in both the community (and by extension the forums) and debating that are invested in what the president does, and are aware of what I have done, and what the presidency means in general. Our voting turnout isn't that great, 50 votes is high turnout. But those are the members who care the most and they know what's happening. Those 50 members also reflect a decent consensus of opinions as well and it's their voting, posting and positing ideas that benefits the other hundreds who don't know what is happening and often don't care.

Speaking as somebody who was at one point active for an entire year before realizing that there was much activity on the forums, you can see how I come from a rather different place here. I think the goal has to be making people aware of the fact that you're there to help them. You're not forcing them to be active - that will never work anyway - but you're informing them in a way that gives them a reason to care. I agree that our voting turnout is good enough (I'd put the number at closer to 30 but 50 sounds reasonable), but that's not the only manifestation of apathy.

I'm on the site probably more than nearly anyone. My activity isn't reflected in a huge number of posts or public displays but by my availability to respond to members when they need assistance. Every time someone has contacted me in the past year (with a couple exceptions naturally) I have replied to them within 24 hours and helped them with whatever they needed assistance with. But being available in an official capacity at regular intervals does have merit to it and that's what this plan is all about.

First, can I just say thanks for doing this. My concern is that not enough people know about it, but nobody can deny that there are some very great things that you're doing. A little less "behind the scenes" would be ideal, and it's good that you're considering steps in that direction. Your availability may be reflected in your actions, but what it should be is demonstrated by them.

We have hundreds and hundreds of members, most are indifferent. Those who care enough are involved in the community or debate a lot. Those who care even more are involved to a greater level by being active in helping the site and/or chatting with me regularly.

Before this election - in every campaign - some candidates reached out to me because I was a frequent debater, and I know what this is like. They said nice thank-yous, and then I never heard from them again. None of the things I've said (so far) in this election are new - I'm recycling old ideas that this site could have benefited from a long time ago. I was among the hundreds that they didn't care about. Why? Because I never went on the forums (so far as they knew anyway), and thus I couldn't vote. No offense to those people of course, but I'm certain I'm not the only one. Even outside of elections people have come to me and asked how things are going. I give them a list, they say "ah ha" and move on with shrugged shoulders.

You're right in that they're indifferent to site politics. You're wrong that this indifference means they don't care about the site. They might not debate a lot, but that might be because the site is sufficiently disappointing, and they don't realize that they can change things. And for a casual debater this site's problems are the worst.

The community manifests itself in the forums. Transparency of the administration is naturally a forum thing.

There isn't a better place to post stuff, but the community of DDO is much more than the forum community. I think it's important to try to find ways to reach out to others on DDO as much as you can.
airmax1227
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5/10/2013 11:40:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
@Larz

I'm not certain that there is anything significant we are actually disagreeing on here, and this thread wasn't really intended for this.

I'll respond to the voting issues you brought up, but then I'd like to move back onto what the general purpose of this thread is.

The Policing of voting conduct isn't done arbitrarily, and couldn't be perceived as such as you said, because anyone who looks at the voting conduct of those who are reprimanded will realize it immediately.

There are 'bigger picture' things to take into account here, and ways to improve voting and decrease poor conduct are always being considered. For example, your "vote of the week" idea is a good one, I would hope you would be willing to do the actual leg work on this, but I'll gladly do so in the near future.

As for this specific case of the voter I mentioned, I didn't need to provide analysis. It was a fairly high profile incident and it's obvious why he lost his voting privileges. Though in general, I may consider posting the details of these things as you suggest. However this wont affect what you are suggesting, because the members most commonly guilty of it (new members), are those who aren't yet active in the forums, and happen to be members I go out of my way to contact personally already. So this entirely line of reasoning is redundant and fails to accomplish the very thing for why it is suggested.

I don't think there is anything else we are in general disagreement over that was brought up here. I certainly look forward to engaging you on every issue at the appropriate times as the election draws closer.

Once again, good luck on your campaign.
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Eitan_Zohar
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5/10/2013 11:41:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ah, you were waiting until the campaign in order to do this.

http://www.jewlicious.com...
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
airmax1227
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5/10/2013 11:53:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 11:41:03 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Ah, you were waiting until the campaign in order to do this.

http://www.jewlicious.com...

It just happened to be brought up recently. I still don't believe that I have lacked transparency in any way, and only a few members have said so. But I think this is a good idea and a productive use of my time, so now is as good a time as any.

I'm also not really interested in campaigning, especially not this early. If members still need me to convince them of the reasons why I would make a good president, then they are probably already voting for someone that isn't me.
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daytonanerd
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5/11/2013 12:03:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 11:41:03 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Ah, you were waiting until the campaign in order to do this.

http://www.jewlicious.com...

Back off man. Me and Airmax are part of the Jew Crew. We got each other's backs. This 'Arafat' talk is unacceptable.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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5/11/2013 9:47:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
What about team debates? Any update on that?
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
airmax1227
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5/11/2013 10:40:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/11/2013 9:47:12 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
What about team debates? Any update on that?

Nothing specific. In the interim, members are welcome to contact Bladerunner060 to coordinate team debates and use specifically created accounts to have multiple members on each side debate each other.

So if anyone is interested in doing a team debate, please contact Bladerunner060 and let him know.
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Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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5/12/2013 7:40:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/10/2013 8:34:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I shall be as secretive and as uncompromising as possible.

So it has come to this...

I trusted you Airmax.
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airmax1227
Posts: 13,223
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5/12/2013 1:48:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 7:40:48 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 5/10/2013 8:34:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I shall be as secretive and as uncompromising as possible.

So it has come to this...


I trusted you Airmax.

haha

That doesn't really sound like something that I would say. :P
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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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5/12/2013 3:50:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 7:40:48 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 5/10/2013 8:34:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I shall be as secretive and as uncompromising as possible.

So it has come to this...


I trusted you Airmax.

http://xkcd.com...
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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5/12/2013 4:15:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 3:50:50 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 5/12/2013 7:40:48 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 5/10/2013 8:34:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I shall be as secretive and as uncompromising as possible.

So it has come to this...


I trusted you Airmax.

http://xkcd.com...

lol
Music composition contest: http://www.debate.org...