Total Posts:12|Showing Posts:1-12
Jump to topic:

Debate Etiquette Revision

medic0506
Posts: 13,450
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 9:02:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
How does everyone feel about spamming for votes on a debate, especially near the end of the voting period??

Advertising your debates in your sig or on the request for voting thread is acceptable, but I personally feel that asking your friends for votes should be frowned upon, and considered poor sportsmanship. This is especially true when the person doing it turns to people who they know are likely to vote against their opponent, for personal or ideological reasons. This turns the debate into a popularity contest, rather than a contest on your ability to make your particular points, in debate. If all voters were non-biased then it wouldn't be an issue, but we all know that is not the case with many voters here on DDO, or any other site.

I think that, as voters, we should no longer respond to people spamming for votes, in particular requests from friends, near the end of the voting period. As debate participants, once the debate is over then we should just let the voters decide, instead of trying to recruit votes from people who are likely to be biased toward your side.

What say you??
TUF
Posts: 21,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 9:33:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 9:02:10 PM, medic0506 wrote:
How does everyone feel about spamming for votes on a debate, especially near the end of the voting period??

Advertising your debates in your sig or on the request for voting thread is acceptable, but I personally feel that asking your friends for votes should be frowned upon, and considered poor sportsmanship. This is especially true when the person doing it turns to people who they know are likely to vote against their opponent, for personal or ideological reasons. This turns the debate into a popularity contest, rather than a contest on your ability to make your particular points, in debate. If all voters were non-biased then it wouldn't be an issue, but we all know that is not the case with many voters here on DDO, or any other site.

I think that, as voters, we should no longer respond to people spamming for votes, in particular requests from friends, near the end of the voting period. As debate participants, once the debate is over then we should just let the voters decide, instead of trying to recruit votes from people who are likely to be biased toward your side.

What say you??

Dis-agree, Advertising debates is the only way people will vote on them. A lot of times, even then, they won't vote. If they refuse to vote, let that be their decision. Also people shouldn't feel obligated to vote for their friends just because they asked. They should vote on who they honestly think the better voters is. If they fail to do that, its not the advertisers fault, it's the voters fault.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 9:38:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 9:33:28 PM, TUF wrote:
At 6/2/2013 9:02:10 PM, medic0506 wrote:
How does everyone feel about spamming for votes on a debate, especially near the end of the voting period??

Advertising your debates in your sig or on the request for voting thread is acceptable, but I personally feel that asking your friends for votes should be frowned upon, and considered poor sportsmanship. This is especially true when the person doing it turns to people who they know are likely to vote against their opponent, for personal or ideological reasons. This turns the debate into a popularity contest, rather than a contest on your ability to make your particular points, in debate. If all voters were non-biased then it wouldn't be an issue, but we all know that is not the case with many voters here on DDO, or any other site.

I think that, as voters, we should no longer respond to people spamming for votes, in particular requests from friends, near the end of the voting period. As debate participants, once the debate is over then we should just let the voters decide, instead of trying to recruit votes from people who are likely to be biased toward your side.

What say you??

Dis-agree, Advertising debates is the only way people will vote on them. A lot of times, even then, they won't vote. If they refuse to vote, let that be their decision. Also people shouldn't feel obligated to vote for their friends just because they asked. They should vote on who they honestly think the better voters is. If they fail to do that, its not the advertisers fault, it's the voters fault.

I completely agree with TUF. I would also like to add that if you don't advertise, then you will have a debate with only one or two votes, or none at all. Wins and losses are not satisfying when only one or two votes are involved.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 9:41:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I completely agree with you medic. I never vote for a debate that someone asks me to vote for. I don't vote very much, and I know that means I contribute to one of the major problems here on DDO, but when I do it's because I'm just reading random debates.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 9:52:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think it has to do with the intention of asking others to vote. When I ask members to vote, I often ask people who I know will be objective voters.

Some people may ask others who agree with their position hoping to get more votes.

The latter should be discouraged while the former encouraged.

However, the question of who is an objective voter is difficult to determine and people can often justify to others (and to themselves) that their reason is the former while it actually could be the latter.

I think it is matter of people realizing that they can't lie to themselves; introspection into the reasons that you ask others for votes might help.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 11:40:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I have more than once been asked to vote, and unfortunately had to tell the person "Sorry! You asked...but you're not gonna like the result..."

I totally agree that it's not fantastic, and your points are valid, but can be made about the fact that friends' debates show up in the news feed. Or about biased voters in general, who might go looking for debates that they'll already agree with. And refusing to participate in the "please vote" PMs means less votes overall, which is a running problem.

I think the "voting issue" is something which needs a holistic (in the etymological, not the hippy, sense) solution. That doesn't mean I have too many good ideas for what that is, mind you.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2013 1:21:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why don't we change the rules for voting for public office, for President of the United States for example, so that anyone who is a partisan in favor of either candidate or who sees campaign ads or reads campaign literature is forbidden from voting? The reason we shouldn't do that is that we want to have as many people as possible who care about issues involved in voting. Attempting to exclude people who care will leave the outcome to the very few people who are marginally interested or the random two or three who happen to see the debate amidst the flood of uninteresting topics.

No one should ask for a vote based upon a vote-for-me-and-I'll-vote-for-you type of deal. However, asking people who are known to have an interest in the subject to look at the debate is perfectly appropriate.

I have been pushing a system where the debate Instigator would attach keywords to the debate, and DDO members would subscribe to keywords in their profile. The site would probably have to make an official list of keywords for starters. The member would then be automatically informed when a debate of potential interest is up for voting. No doubt this would be a pain for the site to implement --all software is a pain-- but it would reduce the need to advertise debates and would stimulate voting.
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2013 6:47:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/3/2013 1:21:48 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
No one should ask for a vote based upon a vote-for-me-and-I'll-vote-for-you type of deal. However, asking people who are known to have an interest in the subject to look at the debate is perfectly appropriate.

Assuming, of course, objectivity.
Subutai
Posts: 3,187
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2013 8:44:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Personally, I think that asking people to vote on your debates is fine, especially if you do it objectively. Sometimes, if a lot of people who agree with me vote on one of my debates, I will ask someone who agrees with my opponent to vote.

Voting is scarce on this website, and asking people to vote is not bad, unless of course you make it a desired obligation, like a vote trade.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2013 9:13:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/3/2013 1:21:48 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Why don't we change the rules for voting for public office, for President of the United States for example, so that anyone who is a partisan in favor of either candidate or who sees campaign ads or reads campaign literature is forbidden from voting? The reason we shouldn't do that is that we want to have as many people as possible who care about issues involved in voting. Attempting to exclude people who care will leave the outcome to the very few people who are marginally interested or the random two or three who happen to see the debate amidst the flood of uninteresting topics.

No one should ask for a vote based upon a vote-for-me-and-I'll-vote-for-you type of deal. However, asking people who are known to have an interest in the subject to look at the debate is perfectly appropriate.

I have been pushing a system where the debate Instigator would attach keywords to the debate, and DDO members would subscribe to keywords in their profile. The site would probably have to make an official list of keywords for starters. The member would then be automatically informed when a debate of potential interest is up for voting. No doubt this would be a pain for the site to implement --all software is a pain-- but it would reduce the need to advertise debates and would stimulate voting.

I like that idea.
hereiam2005
Posts: 64
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2013 11:27:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 9:02:10 PM, medic0506 wrote:
How does everyone feel about spamming for votes on a debate, especially near the end of the voting period??

Advertising your debates in your sig or on the request for voting thread is acceptable, but I personally feel that asking your friends for votes should be frowned upon, and considered poor sportsmanship. This is especially true when the person doing it turns to people who they know are likely to vote against their opponent, for personal or ideological reasons. This turns the debate into a popularity contest, rather than a contest on your ability to make your particular points, in debate. If all voters were non-biased then it wouldn't be an issue, but we all know that is not the case with many voters here on DDO, or any other site.

I think that, as voters, we should no longer respond to people spamming for votes, in particular requests from friends, near the end of the voting period. As debate participants, once the debate is over then we should just let the voters decide, instead of trying to recruit votes from people who are likely to be biased toward your side.

What say you??

Yes, I agree totally. My first ever debate here at DDO was with someone who had some experience on DDO, and he ended up PM two of his friends who happened to be ideologically opposed to my stance to vote in our debate - I guess I don't need to say who got the votes. While for me, since I've just joined, I got no friends at all, and I also dislike the practice too.

When I asked one of the voter for RFD in PM (it was his preference), I got this as an answer:
"BTW, your case reads like it's from an average high school freshman or sophomore policy debater. Am I right?"

No need to say that I was extremely frustrated.
hereiam2005
Posts: 64
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2013 11:37:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And I might add that this practice left a particularly sour taste, especially after a good debate - I was left with permanently negative impression of a few people whom I thought could have been friends.

Newbies have no friends - so are they at an even higher disadvantage (unfair, I might add) when trying to seriously debate pros?

I found this system highly unwelcoming to newbies.