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In regards to a controversy

JonathanCrane
Posts: 12
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6/16/2013 8:00:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://www.debate.org...

There has been some controversy over a vote on this thread between TheHitchslap and I. We all remember when Apeiron was revealed as having multiple accounts and was permanently banned from DDO. One, emphasis on the one, of Apeiron's multi accounts voted on this debate. This means that, as a person, Apeiron voted once on this debate. That's one vote for one person. So, the fact that Apeiron had multiple accounts on DDO is irrelevant, as long as he only used one of them to vote. GOP countered Anthrasight's (Apeiron's multi) vote just because he was a multi of Apeiron. This seems unjustified given the reasoning above.

I noticed this and voted to counter GOP. YYW countered my vote because he considered it to be unjustified. I have withdrawn my vote and created this thread for the purpose of debate. My ultimate hope is that Airmax will decide whether GOP's vote was justified or not.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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6/16/2013 8:12:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At first I thought you were saying both Apeiron and his multi voted on the debate. Uh, if I get this straight, I think I agree with you. Just because it's a multi, doesn't discredit the vote. If Apeiron had voted on the debate with his main account, it wouldn't have been countered, but there isn't really a difference which account he used.

But yeah, don't use your previous account to vote on your own debate dude, even if it's just a counter.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
JonathanCrane
Posts: 12
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6/16/2013 8:12:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/16/2013 8:07:08 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:56:11 PM, JonathanCrane wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:46:44 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:45:30 PM, JonathanCrane wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:34:58 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
http://www.debate.org...
Johnathan Crane VB

Anthra, Vulpes, and Aperion were all the same person, to make it fair as technically this person voted on his own debate, GOP fixed it. John is essentially saying it doesn't matter, and quite frankly that's bullsh!t

This is not factual at all. Airmax confirmed on the forum (on a thread you even posted on) that Vulpes is a seperate person from Apeiron and Anthra. Airmax posted an entire list of Apeiron's doubles, and Vulpes was not one of them. Vulpes is my former account, so if Vulpes were Apeiron, I'd be baned right now.

So then your voting on your own account?

Are you fvcking kidding me?
Talk about a VB!!!!!

I'm voting for the singular purpose of countering. However, I can see why you would have problems with somebody voting on a debate their former account had. That's why I have withdrawn my vote, make a thread to discuss this, and allow Airmax to give his judgement on whether GOP's vote was justified.

Three problems:

(1) If Vulpes was a former account of yours, and you are -from a new account- voting on an old debate, then you have acted extremely unethically by voting on your own debate -counter or not.
(2) You had no right to counter what appears to me to be -albeit a questionable- but not provably illegitimate vote.
(3) This is not the thread to dispute votebombs. Either do it in comments politely, or have Airmax address it. Do not do it in this thread. If you have further issues/questions, take it to Airmax.

1) I have noted as much already, hence I withdrew my vote.
2) I'm not sure about this.
3) No, it's not the thread to dispute votebombs. That's why I started a new thread already.

You came in and tried to give me advice from some position of authority, but I had already done of all those things before you even posted.
JonathanCrane
Posts: 12
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6/16/2013 8:16:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/16/2013 8:12:24 PM, phantom wrote:
At first I thought you were saying both Apeiron and his multi voted on the debate. Uh, if I get this straight, I think I agree with you. Just because it's a multi, doesn't discredit the vote. If Apeiron had voted on the debate with his main account, it wouldn't have been countered, but there isn't really a difference which account he used.

But yeah, don't use your previous account to vote on your own debate dude, even if it's just a counter.

I removed my vote the very first time somebody made a note of it. But yes, you have summarized my position correctly.
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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6/16/2013 8:22:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/16/2013 8:12:33 PM, JonathanCrane wrote:
At 6/16/2013 8:07:08 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:56:11 PM, JonathanCrane wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:46:44 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:45:30 PM, JonathanCrane wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:34:58 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
http://www.debate.org...
Johnathan Crane VB

Anthra, Vulpes, and Aperion were all the same person, to make it fair as technically this person voted on his own debate, GOP fixed it. John is essentially saying it doesn't matter, and quite frankly that's bullsh!t

This is not factual at all. Airmax confirmed on the forum (on a thread you even posted on) that Vulpes is a seperate person from Apeiron and Anthra. Airmax posted an entire list of Apeiron's doubles, and Vulpes was not one of them. Vulpes is my former account, so if Vulpes were Apeiron, I'd be baned right now.

So then your voting on your own account?

Are you fvcking kidding me?
Talk about a VB!!!!!

I'm voting for the singular purpose of countering. However, I can see why you would have problems with somebody voting on a debate their former account had. That's why I have withdrawn my vote, make a thread to discuss this, and allow Airmax to give his judgement on whether GOP's vote was justified.

Three problems:

(1) If Vulpes was a former account of yours, and you are -from a new account- voting on an old debate, then you have acted extremely unethically by voting on your own debate -counter or not.
(2) You had no right to counter what appears to me to be -albeit a questionable- but not provably illegitimate vote.
(3) This is not the thread to dispute votebombs. Either do it in comments politely, or have Airmax address it. Do not do it in this thread. If you have further issues/questions, take it to Airmax.

1) I have noted as much already, hence I withdrew my vote.

I have since withdrawn my counter. Do not vote on your old debates in the future.

2) I'm not sure about this.

I am. If you have further questions, take it to Airmax.

3) No, it's not the thread to dispute votebombs. That's why I started a new thread already.

You should have sent a PM to Airmax, and you should have known that since I believe you have been a member of this site (albeit with different account names) for the better part of two years or so.

You came in and tried to give me advice from some position of authority, but I had already done of all those things before you even posted.

You acted inappropriately. Now, the situation has been rectified because you have withdrawn your improper CVB. In the future, when there are problems like this go to Airmax. It is improper to create threads to dispute votes.
Tsar of DDO
JonathanCrane
Posts: 12
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6/16/2013 8:26:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/16/2013 8:22:26 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/16/2013 8:12:33 PM, JonathanCrane wrote:
At 6/16/2013 8:07:08 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:56:11 PM, JonathanCrane wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:46:44 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:45:30 PM, JonathanCrane wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:34:58 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
http://www.debate.org...
Johnathan Crane VB

Anthra, Vulpes, and Aperion were all the same person, to make it fair as technically this person voted on his own debate, GOP fixed it. John is essentially saying it doesn't matter, and quite frankly that's bullsh!t

This is not factual at all. Airmax confirmed on the forum (on a thread you even posted on) that Vulpes is a seperate person from Apeiron and Anthra. Airmax posted an entire list of Apeiron's doubles, and Vulpes was not one of them. Vulpes is my former account, so if Vulpes were Apeiron, I'd be baned right now.

So then your voting on your own account?

Are you fvcking kidding me?
Talk about a VB!!!!!

I'm voting for the singular purpose of countering. However, I can see why you would have problems with somebody voting on a debate their former account had. That's why I have withdrawn my vote, make a thread to discuss this, and allow Airmax to give his judgement on whether GOP's vote was justified.

Three problems:

(1) If Vulpes was a former account of yours, and you are -from a new account- voting on an old debate, then you have acted extremely unethically by voting on your own debate -counter or not.
(2) You had no right to counter what appears to me to be -albeit a questionable- but not provably illegitimate vote.
(3) This is not the thread to dispute votebombs. Either do it in comments politely, or have Airmax address it. Do not do it in this thread. If you have further issues/questions, take it to Airmax.

1) I have noted as much already, hence I withdrew my vote.

I have since withdrawn my counter. Do not vote on your old debates in the future.

2) I'm not sure about this.

I am. If you have further questions, take it to Airmax.

3) No, it's not the thread to dispute votebombs. That's why I started a new thread already.

You should have sent a PM to Airmax, and you should have known that since I believe you have been a member of this site (albeit with different account names) for the better part of two years or so.

You came in and tried to give me advice from some position of authority, but I had already done of all those things before you even posted.

You acted inappropriately. Now, the situation has been rectified because you have withdrawn your improper CVB. In the future, when there are problems like this go to Airmax. It is improper to create threads to dispute votes.

It's interesting that you would create a post so that you could instruct me to do things I've already done (again).
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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6/16/2013 8:28:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/16/2013 8:26:07 PM, JonathanCrane wrote:
At 6/16/2013 8:22:26 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/16/2013 8:12:33 PM, JonathanCrane wrote:
At 6/16/2013 8:07:08 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:56:11 PM, JonathanCrane wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:46:44 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:45:30 PM, JonathanCrane wrote:
At 6/16/2013 7:34:58 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
http://www.debate.org...
Johnathan Crane VB

Anthra, Vulpes, and Aperion were all the same person, to make it fair as technically this person voted on his own debate, GOP fixed it. John is essentially saying it doesn't matter, and quite frankly that's bullsh!t

This is not factual at all. Airmax confirmed on the forum (on a thread you even posted on) that Vulpes is a seperate person from Apeiron and Anthra. Airmax posted an entire list of Apeiron's doubles, and Vulpes was not one of them. Vulpes is my former account, so if Vulpes were Apeiron, I'd be baned right now.

So then your voting on your own account?

Are you fvcking kidding me?
Talk about a VB!!!!!

I'm voting for the singular purpose of countering. However, I can see why you would have problems with somebody voting on a debate their former account had. That's why I have withdrawn my vote, make a thread to discuss this, and allow Airmax to give his judgement on whether GOP's vote was justified.

Three problems:

(1) If Vulpes was a former account of yours, and you are -from a new account- voting on an old debate, then you have acted extremely unethically by voting on your own debate -counter or not.
(2) You had no right to counter what appears to me to be -albeit a questionable- but not provably illegitimate vote.
(3) This is not the thread to dispute votebombs. Either do it in comments politely, or have Airmax address it. Do not do it in this thread. If you have further issues/questions, take it to Airmax.

1) I have noted as much already, hence I withdrew my vote.

I have since withdrawn my counter. Do not vote on your old debates in the future.

2) I'm not sure about this.

I am. If you have further questions, take it to Airmax.

3) No, it's not the thread to dispute votebombs. That's why I started a new thread already.

You should have sent a PM to Airmax, and you should have known that since I believe you have been a member of this site (albeit with different account names) for the better part of two years or so.

You came in and tried to give me advice from some position of authority, but I had already done of all those things before you even posted.

You acted inappropriately. Now, the situation has been rectified because you have withdrawn your improper CVB. In the future, when there are problems like this go to Airmax. It is improper to create threads to dispute votes.

It's interesting that you would create a post so that you could instruct me to do things I've already done (again).

And yet, you still created this thread.
Tsar of DDO
JonathanCrane
Posts: 12
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6/16/2013 8:34:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I didn't say that I had taken all of your advice. In fact, I've taken none of your advice. It's just that you advised me to do things that I already done before you even posted. It makes you look unattentive when you tell me my vote should be withdrawn, and that the other thread was not a good place to talk, when I have already withdrawn my thread and created a new place for discussion. I've sent a PM and withdrawn my vote. Now we can let Airmax do whatever Airmax wants to do, because whether the vote was justified is still in contention, despite your pseudo-authorative insistence to the contrary.
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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6/16/2013 8:39:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/16/2013 8:34:39 PM, JonathanCrane wrote:
I didn't say that I had taken all of your advice. In fact, I've taken none of your advice. It's just that you advised me to do things that I already done before you even posted. It makes you look unattentive when you tell me my vote should be withdrawn, and that the other thread was not a good place to talk, when I have already withdrawn my thread and created a new place for discussion. I've sent a PM and withdrawn my vote. Now we can let Airmax do whatever Airmax wants to do, because whether the vote was justified is still in contention, despite your pseudo-authorative insistence to the contrary.

lol... whatever, kiddo.
Tsar of DDO
airmax1227
Posts: 13,245
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6/16/2013 8:53:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
As I told JonathanCrane via PM, I'm inclined to allow the counter to stand because the vote, while not a "mutli vote", still lacks integrity. Apeiron was an ideological voter, combine this with the fact that JonathanCrane is/was his friend, and the vote was a forgone conclusion and rationalized, rather than justified. Apeiron also failed to justify his S&G points in this vote.

Because the vote is controversial due to the member placing it, I believe that the vote should not count and the counter should stand. If I could, I would just delete it, but countering is the best option at the moment.

In the meantime, I suggest that JC post the debate to the VB/FF thread to see if he can gain a couple more fair votes before the voting period runs out. Otherwise, as I've said, Apeirons vote should not count on this debate, regardless of the multi accounting, but because his votes, are all ideological. While ideological voting is a difficult thing for us to deal with in general, and nearly impossible to effectively combat, the controversy surrounding Apeiron in general, makes this vote one that shouldn't count, when all elements are combined.

I apologize to JonathanCrane that this result goes against him, but I feel it is fair given the circumstances.

Also, any members who create new accounts (even legitimately, as JonathanCrane did) are not allowed under any circumstances to vote on their debates done under the former account. If this is discovered, that member will immediately lose their voting privileges, and/or face a temp/perm ban based on the circumstances.
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