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New Arguments in the Second Round

ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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6/18/2013 6:09:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm a little bit unclear about this. If there is space, in the second round of debate, are new arguments generally allowed?
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ClassicRobert
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6/18/2013 7:01:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm talking about the second round of actual debate (I'm not considering an acceptance round). I ask this because that round is usually just used for rebuttals.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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6/18/2013 7:01:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
New arguments in the second round are usually allowed, unless the second round is the last round. Generally it's only the last round where new arguments shouldn't be made, but the rule should be held more strongly against the person who accepted the debate rather than the instigator, since he goes last. If the instigator makes a last round argument, his opponent can still respond to it which is not the case other way around. However, both participants shouldn't make new arguments in the last round. That's considered standard conduct, but people often add it to the rules.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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6/18/2013 9:02:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 6:09:53 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
I'm a little bit unclear about this. If there is space, in the second round of debate, are new arguments generally allowed?

Generally, unless the format is pre-stated that R2 (in relation to actual debating, not including any acceptance round) is for rebuttals only, then it is allowed.

There was a baseball debate that I did about who was the best centerfielder. I originally didn't mention Cobbs, because he was horrible at defense, then in my opponent's round he stated "defense doesn't matter" and so openned that right up for me to bring him in.
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philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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6/18/2013 9:12:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 6:09:53 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
I'm a little bit unclear about this. If there is space, in the second round of debate, are new arguments generally allowed?

I think it's okay to introduce new arguments in the second round because the other person still has a chance to respond to them. It's only the last round that new arguments shouldn't be brought up.

Here's a debate I did where I introduced new arguments in the second round, and my opponent didn't like it. He thought it was a dirty trick.

http://www.debate.org...
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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6/18/2013 10:31:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 6:09:53 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
I'm a little bit unclear about this. If there is space, in the second round of debate, are new arguments generally allowed?

I think, generally, it's okay to post new arguments in the second round so long as your opponent has another round afterward to respond, though it does seem absent-minded (like "Oh yeah, wait, there's another good argument I forgot to say before"). If you don't want your opponent doing such, make it a stipulation outlined in the instigation that neither of you can.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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6/18/2013 10:52:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 10:31:23 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 6/18/2013 6:09:53 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
I'm a little bit unclear about this. If there is space, in the second round of debate, are new arguments generally allowed?

I think, generally, it's okay to post new arguments in the second round so long as your opponent has another round afterward to respond, though it does seem absent-minded (like "Oh yeah, wait, there's another good argument I forgot to say before"). If you don't want your opponent doing such, make it a stipulation outlined in the instigation that neither of you can.

I think new arguments in the second round can keep the debate interesting. Because otherwise, by the third round, you're just repeating yourself. I sometimes introduce new arguments in the second round because there's no room in the first round.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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6/19/2013 1:47:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yeah, new arguments are okay any time before the last round. The instigator has to rebut the new arguments of the challenger in the last round, so it can get a little unclear as to what's new and what's rebuttal. But starting off on a whole new line of argument in the last round is out of bounds.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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6/20/2013 3:14:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 6:09:53 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
If there is space, in the second round of debate, are new arguments generally allowed?

It's not at all uncommon, but it should be discouraged.

If you do it yourself, your opponent can feel that you're cheating. He can properly argue that you dropped those arguments in the first round, so the voters should disregard them when introduced later.

Suppose there are supposed to be three rounds of argument, and your opponent argues first. If you introduce an argument in round one, your opponent can rebut in round two; you can respond to that in round two; and he gets to respond to that in round three. But if you wait to introduce your argument in round two, he only gets one chance to respond. He'll never get to refute your comeback to his original rebuttal. This won't feel at all fair.

Often, arguments are introduced in cursory fashion, in the first round. In the second round, we find out what line of defense will be used. In the third round, we get to really dig in and see whether that defense should be successful. But that can't happen if you wait until the second round to introduce your argument.

So, the downside of waiting:
- Your opponent may feel cheated.
- Your opponent may convince the voters that you were cheating (conduct points).
- Even if your opponent says nothing, some voters may vote conduct against you.
- Your opponent may properly convince voters to ignore your late arguments.
- Even unprompted, some voters may discount your late arguments.
- Perhaps most important, you may waste the opportunity for fruitful exchange of ideas. You're here for that, presumably, but it is rare in a two-round debate.

Don't turn a three-round debate into a two-round debate by introducing late arguments.

Do discourage late arguments by pointing out that voters can and should discount your opponent's late arguments.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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6/20/2013 3:19:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
My aunt played tennis with a woman who, on the serve, would toss the ball up in the air, and then, if she didn't think she'd tossed it up just right, would---instead of hitting it---catch it and toss it up again. Sometimes she would toss it up several times before serving.

One day my Aunt said, "You know, I talked to the tennis pro about that. He said that there's no rule against it. He said you can keep doing that as long as you can find someone who's willing to play with you."

Introducing late arguments is like that: even if there weren't rules against it, it would be gauche.