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Crackdown on impossible to accept debates?

justin.graves
Posts: 220
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6/18/2013 2:01:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was recently browsing through the "Challenge Period" debates and found something... annoying. Debates that appeared to have been created with the purpose of NOT debating. (i.e. in the comment section or getting "candidates" for the debate) There were also three "mama jokes" debates that could not be accepted but were still up there. Out of the 12 debates, more than 5 were not acceptable by the average population, i.e. virtually everyone. One was created just to debate in the comment section! Others have been cancelled, but still there, for days. Anything that can be done about this? Is this acceptable?

Links:
http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org... There are two others.
-Justin K. Graves, Demon Hunter
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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6/18/2013 2:06:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I imagine your disposition toward these debates depends on how open you are to selectivity in opponents. There may be some concern about deliberate selection of inferior opponents, but, granting in the first instance that the intention of an easy win is assuaged by the ELO system, I think there's actually an opposite tendency whereby people try to select only from among competent and qualified opponents, not merely for ELO reasons, but, more than anything, to avoid having their time wasted by trolls or the insufficiently competent (both of which have historically been problematic).
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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6/18/2013 2:08:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
For my own part, I am as supportive of selectivity of opponents as of the same in judges. It is for precisely the benefits to be gained from selection that tournaments, for instance, have a filtered jury system for deciding who has standing to vote on those debates. I imagine the quality of tournament voting is greatly improved by it, as are the quality of debates by selectivity in opponents.
Subutai
Posts: 3,198
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6/18/2013 3:15:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think that making open debates impossible to accept is necessary. On my old account, I had way too many noobs accept my debates, and then either present terrible arguments or forfeit the whole way through. If you want to debate one of the topics, just say so in the comments section.

Although yes, I do agree that the "Mama jokes" conditions are way too restrictive, considering the caliber of the debater and the topic at hand.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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6/18/2013 4:27:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 3:52:48 PM, MassiveDump wrote:
Personally, I like it when noobs accept. I mean c'mon, you're gonna say no to a free win?!

I'm a 1d in Go; when a 15k challenges me, I say no to that free win. It would be a waste of time for me.
YYW
Posts: 36,286
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6/18/2013 4:34:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 2:01:52 PM, justin.graves wrote:
I was recently browsing through the "Challenge Period" debates and found something... annoying. Debates that appeared to have been created with the purpose of NOT debating. (i.e. in the comment section or getting "candidates" for the debate) There were also three "mama jokes" debates that could not be accepted but were still up there. Out of the 12 debates, more than 5 were not acceptable by the average population, i.e. virtually everyone. One was created just to debate in the comment section! Others have been cancelled, but still there, for days. Anything that can be done about this? Is this acceptable?

Links:
http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org... There are two others.

I don't debate very often, but when I do I want a good contender. There are several people who I just flat out would never want to debate (for various reasons) and I don't want to be stuck in a situation where I'm wasting my time. If you don't like that, deal with it.
Tsar of DDO
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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6/18/2013 4:55:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I agree with the OP. I get annoyed when I read through a debate, decide I am interested, than try to click accept, after completely and rather idiotically missing the fact that the debate was un-acceptable.

Wait... That's my Idiot self's fault, not the person making the debate.

*Walks away slowly*
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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6/18/2013 4:56:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 2:01:52 PM, justin.graves wrote:
I was recently browsing through the "Challenge Period" debates and found something... annoying. Debates that appeared to have been created with the purpose of NOT debating. (i.e. in the comment section or getting "candidates" for the debate) There were also three "mama jokes" debates that could not be accepted but were still up there. Out of the 12 debates, more than 5 were not acceptable by the average population, i.e. virtually everyone. One was created just to debate in the comment section! Others have been cancelled, but still there, for days. Anything that can be done about this? Is this acceptable?

Links:
http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org... There are two others.

But seriously, I overall agree with you. Normally I just report them if they stay there for more than a week.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
justin.graves
Posts: 220
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6/18/2013 5:15:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 4:34:13 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/18/2013 2:01:52 PM, justin.graves wrote:
I was recently browsing through the "Challenge Period" debates and found something... annoying. Debates that appeared to have been created with the purpose of NOT debating. (i.e. in the comment section or getting "candidates" for the debate) There were also three "mama jokes" debates that could not be accepted but were still up there. Out of the 12 debates, more than 5 were not acceptable by the average population, i.e. virtually everyone. One was created just to debate in the comment section! Others have been cancelled, but still there, for days. Anything that can be done about this? Is this acceptable?

Links:
http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org... There are two others.

I don't debate very often, but when I do I want a good contender. There are several people who I just flat out would never want to debate (for various reasons) and I don't want to be stuck in a situation where I'm wasting my time. If you don't like that, deal with it.

My biggest problem was the debates created to specifically be impossible to accept so that the instigator could argue in the comments section. And the mama jokes. The others were mere annoyances.
-Justin K. Graves, Demon Hunter
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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6/18/2013 5:32:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 5:15:48 PM, justin.graves wrote:
My biggest problem was the debates created to specifically be impossible to accept so that the instigator could argue in the comments section. And the mama jokes. The others were mere annoyances.

Perhaps you are right; however, I would argue this is both merely an aesthetic problem and the cost--which I am more than willing to accept--of having the option to specify those criteria you desire in an opponent. If, contrarily, we removed the ability to constrain our choice of opponents, there would doubtlessly be related problems which someone or other would try to bring to public attention (one example, perhaps, being acceptance of debates by trolls or the incompetent). What is important is not that we arrive at a manner of doing things such that there are no negative externalities, but that we find something favorable to the alternatives respective in particular of those undesirable consequences which may inevitably arise. It is not to say your objection isn't worthwhile, but it is to ask, beyond drawing attention to the problem, what you would have us do instead.
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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6/18/2013 5:36:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 5:32:10 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 6/18/2013 5:15:48 PM, justin.graves wrote:
My biggest problem was the debates created to specifically be impossible to accept so that the instigator could argue in the comments section. And the mama jokes. The others were mere annoyances.

Perhaps you are right; however, I would argue this is both merely an aesthetic problem and the cost--which I am more than willing to accept--of having the option to specify those criteria you desire in an opponent. If, contrarily, we removed the ability to constrain our choice of opponents, there would doubtlessly be related problems which someone or other would try to bring to public attention (one example, perhaps, being acceptance of debates by trolls or the incompetent). What is important is not that we arrive at a manner of doing things such that there are no negative externalities, but that we find something favorable to the alternatives respective in particular of those undesirable consequences which may inevitably arise. It is not to say your objection isn't worthwhile, but it is to ask, beyond drawing attention to the problem, what you would have us do instead.

Good point. Solution is simple, I think: Report debates that are sitting in there for an unusual amount of time.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
YYW
Posts: 36,286
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6/18/2013 5:38:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 5:15:48 PM, justin.graves wrote:
At 6/18/2013 4:34:13 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/18/2013 2:01:52 PM, justin.graves wrote:
I was recently browsing through the "Challenge Period" debates and found something... annoying. Debates that appeared to have been created with the purpose of NOT debating. (i.e. in the comment section or getting "candidates" for the debate) There were also three "mama jokes" debates that could not be accepted but were still up there. Out of the 12 debates, more than 5 were not acceptable by the average population, i.e. virtually everyone. One was created just to debate in the comment section! Others have been cancelled, but still there, for days. Anything that can be done about this? Is this acceptable?

Links:
http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org... There are two others.

I don't debate very often, but when I do I want a good contender. There are several people who I just flat out would never want to debate (for various reasons) and I don't want to be stuck in a situation where I'm wasting my time. If you don't like that, deal with it.

My biggest problem was the debates created to specifically be impossible to accept so that the instigator could argue in the comments section. And the mama jokes. The others were mere annoyances.

There are several people who spam the absolute fuck out of the comment section, and I think they ought to be temp-banned -or flensed. Flensing would suffice, so long as it was recorded on video and posted on DDO.
Tsar of DDO
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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6/18/2013 5:43:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 5:42:24 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 6/18/2013 5:40:34 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/18/2013 5:39:55 PM, TUF wrote:
What means flensed

To slice or peel the skin off of.

I thought that was "flayed". Checking dictionary.

Checked--turns out that the term is used primarily to denote the skinning of whale carcasses, so it's sort of (by custom) specialized.
YYW
Posts: 36,286
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6/18/2013 5:43:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 5:42:24 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 6/18/2013 5:40:34 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/18/2013 5:39:55 PM, TUF wrote:
What means flensed

To slice or peel the skin off of.

I thought that was "flayed". Checking dictionary.

They are synonyms... sort of.
Tsar of DDO
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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6/18/2013 5:46:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/18/2013 5:43:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/18/2013 5:42:24 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 6/18/2013 5:40:34 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/18/2013 5:39:55 PM, TUF wrote:
What means flensed

To slice or peel the skin off of.

I thought that was "flayed". Checking dictionary.

They are synonyms... sort of.

In either case, I learned a new word today. Cause for [already-occurring] celebration.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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6/19/2013 1:40:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It would help if the site added a "minimum Elo rating" as a criteria for accepting a debate, rather than age. As it is, looking for a well-qualified opponent with the allowed mechanism seems the best that can be done.

However, posting something and declaring you don't really want to debate ("I'm just looking for research."), or you want to debate in comments, is unacceptable. Those things belong in the forums. There is a "Report this debate." link right below the debate title. I recommend reporting the challenge as being a non-debate.
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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6/19/2013 1:48:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Actually I'm about to start using this. The better people often post in comments for clarifications, only to get their place in line grabbed. Making the debate impossible to initially accept, is the logical solution.
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