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Debate.org Focus Group on New Design

Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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7/2/2013 4:29:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is usually a good idea of gaining a lot of information about the site. If we can get, say, a half dozen people who are extremely well known, who will each post an extensive analysis of the site's changes and whether they think it is a step forward or backwards, or whether it is just moving laterally, this would both give a clear opinion and judgement of a thumbs up/down to the current movement of the site, and at the same time some great material to help inform the developers on developing and improving the site further.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/2/2013 4:34:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Good idea. But if they don't even care if we've been suggesting debate reforms for the past 2 years, why would they accept a suggestion like this? They have their objectives, and I doubt appeasing the forum-posting old members is one of them.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/2/2013 4:43:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A list of well thought out suggestions:

(1) DDO is not CreateDebate. Juggle should realize that DDO is not CreateDebate, and that there is a reason why many on here are members here and not there. While I am not opposed to Juggle utilizing their resources to make money, what I am very much opposed to is their ripping off a site that hasn't even a scintilla of the user quality that DDO has. Net traffic and ad revenue are nice, but they should have created a separate site if this was their intent.

(2) The opinion section is devoid of merit or value. While CreateDebate has various features like the Opinion section and in interface almost as annoying as the new layout (and that may generate more site traffic for them than the forum or debate traffic on DDO), the opinion section suffers from the same problem that CreateDebate does, as a site: it lacks intellectual worth. That their perhaps ought to be a place for users -who may not be interested in actually debating- to voice their opinions is not in dispute; but that the opinion section should overshadow the bulk of everything else on DDO is very much at issue now.

(3) The banners (on the top and bottom of the site which read respectively "Debate.org | Debates | Opinions | Forums | [search bar] | [social media]" and "Debate.org | Debates/Opinions/Forums/Blog/People | About/Company/Demographics/Elected Officials | Help/FAQs/Articles/Contact Us | [social media] | Privacy Policy/Terms of Use/Sitemap/(c) 2013 Debate.org. All rights reserved.") are profoundly ostentatious. The search bar is cool, but they (the banners) are entirely too large.
Tsar of DDO
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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7/2/2013 4:45:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ho-lee sh*t. I just logged in and what is this?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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7/2/2013 4:48:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 4:45:35 PM, Mirza wrote:
The design is nearly excellent -- I would only suggest making it slightly smaller, like zoomed more out.

Yeah, I was disoriented for a second. Why do I have "11" on that blue format by my avatar up on top? It looks like I have 11 messages, but I have none. It's confusing as hell.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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7/2/2013 4:54:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'd rather have a set of people willing to do so, then set up a private message to get it all down at once, then post it all up. That way, it wouldn't be full of tripe.

The one thing that worries me is the amount of times I have read the word "opinions". I avoid the section like a plague, but I just mean generally. Take "Religion" and "Philosophy" and "Politics" forum descriptions:

Philosophy: "Take part in our philosophy forum and discuss all things philosophical including discussions about our existence and the never-ending pursuit of knowledge." sounds a bit facetious at best. However, it is a tiny nit pick. "Discussions of our existence" is just... ??

However, the other segments are more worrying personally. Politics:

"Take part in our political forum and voice your opinion on political parties, candidates and more." Not only does "political parties" rarely come up at all - the emphasis is clearly on either ultracontemporary events, or political philosophy - but more importantly, the tone and lexis essentially puts politics down to opinions. Not "voice your view", "voice your ideas", "make your case", or a series of more memorable, more effective, phrases, but instead "opinion". It reminds me of 14 year olds debating whether Obama is a meanie or a nice guy, not the debates we have on for example the merits of a weighted voting system.

Oh, and religion: "Engage and explore our religious forum and discuss your opinion on faith, world religions and more." I personally, as an atheist, find this somewhat devaluing religious beliefs. It isn't an engaging battle between the varying swords and shields of beliefs and counter-beliefs, PoEs and theodicies, ethical monotheism battling against secular ethics. Instead, it makes it sound like "I think this, and you think that, but it's OK, now let's get along!" We are all capable of doing this, and we don't need the tone to be cooled and calmed at the sight of tension or friction between beliefs to be formed.

This seems nitpicky, but the thought it strikes is central: the site is becoming less about the great clash of opinions over the most important issues on the grandest stages of philosophy and politics that have ever been constructed, but instead a quiet underpopulated tea room, with everyone nibbling on shortbread and not wanting to talk in fear of upsetting the other. This is a slight exaggeration, of course, but I fear how little of one it will become. The direction that this site is developing, I feel, is worrying, and needs to take a new refreshed focus and emphasis on debating, not opinions.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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7/2/2013 4:57:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Forums are good; homepage is crap. Honestly, I don't even know why Juggle added the "Opinions" section. It is nothing more than a personal rant that can't be debated. By doing so DDO is degenerating into other sites which focus solely on opinions (can't remember the name). Forums and debates preserve DDO's intellectual integrity, not opinions.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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7/2/2013 4:58:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Feel free to include me in a PM about the layout.

I'd love to share my thoughts about the layout.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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7/2/2013 4:58:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 4:55:16 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Before and after pictures: http://imgur.com...

The side by side comparison just makes the movig hammer look all that more obnoxious of an eyesore
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
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Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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7/2/2013 5:00:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 4:29:10 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
This is usually a good idea of gaining a lot of information about the site. If we can get, say, a half dozen people who are extremely well known, who will each post an extensive analysis of the site's changes and whether they think it is a step forward or backwards, or whether it is just moving laterally, this would both give a clear opinion and judgement of a thumbs up/down to the current movement of the site, and at the same time some great material to help inform the developers on developing and improving the site further.

Meh, I'll pass. I couldn't care less, unless they want to start censoring us for being rude or whatnot.

But is anyone else experiencing the issue with the blue message notifications popping up?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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7/2/2013 5:01:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 4:58:43 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 7/2/2013 4:55:16 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Before and after pictures: http://imgur.com...

The side by side comparison just makes the movig hammer look all that more obnoxious of an eyesore

See? Didn't even realize I mis-spelt "moving banner" cause it was blocking my view -_-
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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7/2/2013 5:03:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 5:00:02 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
But is anyone else experiencing the issue with the blue message notifications popping up?
No, mine is clear.
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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7/2/2013 5:04:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
My initial reaction is that I like the new layout. It runs smoothly (for me at least) and it didn't take me long to figure out where everything now is. I'll have to use it for a while before I can say with certainty if I prefer it over the old layout or not, but the only thing I can say I don't like about it right now is going from Blue to Orange.

I liked the blue. A lot. Orange is too extreme for me.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
lannan13
Posts: 23,050
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7/2/2013 5:45:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 5:34:51 PM, MassiveDump wrote:
At 7/2/2013 4:45:33 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Ho-lee sh*t. I just logged in and what is this?
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Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
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7/2/2013 5:53:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 5:04:10 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
My initial reaction is that I like the new layout. It runs smoothly (for me at least) and it didn't take me long to figure out where everything now is. I'll have to use it for a while before I can say with certainty if I prefer it over the old layout or not, but the only thing I can say I don't like about it right now is going from Blue to Orange.

I liked the blue. A lot. Orange is too extreme for me.

I've found one thing that irks me. When you click over to the homepage, half of the screen is your own info (which is fine) but the other half is solely dedicated to "trending opinions". I get that the opinion section is a big draw for the site, but I'd like to see "trending debates" mixed in as well. This is "debate.org", after all.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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7/2/2013 6:14:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
OK, I just deleted all of my current notifications and the problem is solved.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
TheAntidoter
Posts: 4,323
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7/2/2013 6:16:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 6:15:06 PM, drafterman wrote:
Threads display better on the iPad.

Agreed.
Affinity: Fire
Class: Human
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Nac.

WOAH, COLORED FONT!
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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7/2/2013 6:46:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 6:19:14 PM, drafterman wrote:
I just went to the home page and vomited. Too busy. It should be customizable.

I love your bluntness.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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7/2/2013 6:48:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 6:19:14 PM, drafterman wrote:
I just went to the home page and vomited. Too busy. It should be customizable.

Still can't think past this HORRIBLE FONT!
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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7/2/2013 7:23:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
By the way, in case (a) anyone is wondering and (b) no one has yet said it, the new font is tahoma while the old one was Verdana (I believe; correct me if I'm wrong).
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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7/2/2013 7:25:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 6:14:16 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
OK, I just deleted all of my current notifications and the problem is solved.

Ahhhh. I take back everything I said about the new notification system. I like it better now. And I found where my inbox was hiding (beneath all the notifications, which is weird to me, but meh... it wasn't on the bottom or the left-hand side).