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Debate.org should pay me to write debates

Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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7/2/2013 9:20:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was initially going to make the topic "Debate.org should pay us to write debates," but I think it draws more attention the way that it is. In any case, the same basic ideas apply. I'm going to present a brief argument why debate.org should be paying us to create content -- similar to how Youtube pays it's partners. See this video for an explanation on youtube partnerships. --->

Whether you realize it or not, Debate.org is making money from all of us, at least those of us who make debates. How do they do this you ask? Allow me to explain. While I'm not an expert in internet marketing, it is currently how I make the bulk of my money.

Debate.org puts up advertisements across the site for various companies. I've seen ads from the state department, HRC and various colleges just to name a few. I'm not entirely sure about the system that DDO has set up with its ads, but it's likely Pay Per Click (PPC). Everytime someone clicks an ad, DDO.org owners get money.

And every time we create a debate, we're creating interesting and unique content that draws in more visitors. More traffic equals more people clicking on ads, which leads to more money. That's how it works in a nutshell.

DDO.org should pay people who bring in lots of traffic with their debates and allow them to monetize the debates through google adsense. This would help everyone. It would encourage people to stick around and create good content that gets lots of traffic. And the additional traffic will create more money for debate.org and its affiliates.

What we're doing is valuable. People are making money off of us. It only makes sense to bring these people in who are creating great content and further incentivize them for it.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/2/2013 9:42:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Supply and demand. There is such a supply of people not asking for money, that those that demand money will get laughed off the site.

Lol
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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7/2/2013 9:46:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 9:42:54 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Supply and demand. There is such a supply of people not asking for money, that those that demand money will get laughed off the site.

Lol

^ The best thing I have seen on DDO all day.
Tsar of DDO
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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7/2/2013 9:48:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 9:42:54 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Supply and demand. There is such a supply of people not asking for money, that those that demand money will get laughed off the site.

Lol

Unionism 101. All the debaters could join together and take action or in this case non action together.

NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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7/2/2013 10:11:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 9:42:54 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Supply and demand. There is such a supply of people not asking for money, that those that demand money will get laughed off the site.

Lol

Your objection doesn't make any sense. Suppose I have a bossiness proposition for you. I can make you 10 dollars, but you only have to pay me 1 in return. It would be stupid to turn down such a proposal and those who would are irrational.

Not everyone is worth the same to DDO, just like not everyone with a youtube channel is worth the same to youtube. Parters on youtube for example rake in lots of money for youtube (and themsleves). If they weren't being paid, then they likely wouldn't make the same content. It's just smart to pay people sometimes. It makes business sense. Lots of the high profile debaters have left for various reasons. I bet they wouldn't have left if they were getting paid.

A lot of debates barely generate a few hundred hits, while some generate tens of thousands. And it should be obvious that not all of the content is of the same quality.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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7/2/2013 10:14:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think you overestimate the revenue generation of the site. I believe they keep it as a "portfolio" piece, to both showcase their site-construction abilities, and to show themselves as a company which produces worthwhile things.

As such, the benefits they get are incidental. Bearing in mind the costs to run and manage the site (and to update it, regardless of your opinion on their updates), they probably already share 100% of their direct profits with us. Which is to say: 100% of $0.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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7/2/2013 10:15:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If there is anyone who should be compensated for their debates, it's MassiveDump because his "Applejack is the best pony." debate has the most views (by far) of any debate on this site.
Tsar of DDO
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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7/2/2013 10:22:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Is this guy serious?
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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7/2/2013 10:35:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 10:14:49 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
I think you overestimate the revenue generation of the site. I believe they keep it as a "portfolio" piece, to both showcase their site-construction abilities, and to show themselves as a company which produces worthwhile things.


Perhaps, but even so the site still grows. I'm going to take a look at site with google analytics.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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7/2/2013 10:37:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 10:22:36 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
Is this guy serious?

Yeah... Why wouldn't I be?
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/2/2013 10:54:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 10:37:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 7/2/2013 10:22:36 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
Is this guy serious?

Yeah... Why wouldn't I be?

Because its a stupid idea and he was giving you a way to save face by allowing you to pawn it off as a joke.
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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7/2/2013 11:01:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 10:54:57 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/2/2013 10:37:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 7/2/2013 10:22:36 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
Is this guy serious?

Yeah... Why wouldn't I be?

Because its a stupid idea and he was giving you a way to save face by allowing you to pawn it off as a joke.

Why is it stupid? What part of anything I've said is inaccurate?
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/3/2013 12:22:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 10:11:41 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 7/2/2013 9:42:54 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Supply and demand. There is such a supply of people not asking for money, that those that demand money will get laughed off the site.

Lol

Your objection doesn't make any sense. Suppose I have a bossiness proposition for you. I can make you 10 dollars, but you only have to pay me 1 in return. It would be stupid to turn down such a proposal and those who would are irrational.

Not everyone is worth the same to DDO, just like not everyone with a youtube channel is worth the same to youtube. Parters on youtube for example rake in lots of money for youtube (and themsleves). If they weren't being paid, then they likely wouldn't make the same content. It's just smart to pay people sometimes. It makes business sense. Lots of the high profile debaters have left for various reasons. I bet they wouldn't have left if they were getting paid.

A lot of debates barely generate a few hundred hits, while some generate tens of thousands. And it should be obvious that not all of the content is of the same quality.

If you bring, as an individual bring in 100,000 views per debate, Juggle might listen.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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7/3/2013 12:48:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's natural to want to find ways to get paid for the things you love to do; I don't see that happening in this particular case, though.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/3/2013 12:50:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 9:48:30 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 7/2/2013 9:42:54 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Supply and demand. There is such a supply of people not asking for money, that those that demand money will get laughed off the site.

Lol

Unionism 101. All the debaters could join together and take action or in this case non action together.

NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!

DDO 101:

Half of the main cast of DDO consists of right-wingers that dislike unions. And we have enough people against unions that it wouldn't work and they'd continue to debate anyhow.

The difference between youtube partners and debate.org, is that youtube partners literally have millions of unique views on their channel. And remember, youtube didn't start the youtube partners programs until it became really big.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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7/3/2013 12:51:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also, you haven't debated in over a year, so Juggle is not likely going to consider your threat of "not debating" to be a huge risk.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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7/3/2013 2:39:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 12:22:43 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/2/2013 10:11:41 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 7/2/2013 9:42:54 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Supply and demand. There is such a supply of people not asking for money, that those that demand money will get laughed off the site.

Lol

Your objection doesn't make any sense. Suppose I have a bossiness proposition for you. I can make you 10 dollars, but you only have to pay me 1 in return. It would be stupid to turn down such a proposal and those who would are irrational.

Not everyone is worth the same to DDO, just like not everyone with a youtube channel is worth the same to youtube. Parters on youtube for example rake in lots of money for youtube (and themsleves). If they weren't being paid, then they likely wouldn't make the same content. It's just smart to pay people sometimes. It makes business sense. Lots of the high profile debaters have left for various reasons. I bet they wouldn't have left if they were getting paid.

A lot of debates barely generate a few hundred hits, while some generate tens of thousands. And it should be obvious that not all of the content is of the same quality.

If you bring, as an individual bring in 100,000 views per debate, Juggle might listen.

-----> Not mine, but still... https://www.debate.org...

If those were video views on youtube, it would be worth about $1,200 to $3,000 for the author/authors. Of course, not all of those views are unique. I'm not sure what sure what the value would be for page views on a blog.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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7/3/2013 2:44:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 2:39:59 AM, Freeman wrote:
At 7/3/2013 12:22:43 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 7/2/2013 10:11:41 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 7/2/2013 9:42:54 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Supply and demand. There is such a supply of people not asking for money, that those that demand money will get laughed off the site.

Lol

Your objection doesn't make any sense. Suppose I have a bossiness proposition for you. I can make you 10 dollars, but you only have to pay me 1 in return. It would be stupid to turn down such a proposal and those who would are irrational.

Not everyone is worth the same to DDO, just like not everyone with a youtube channel is worth the same to youtube. Parters on youtube for example rake in lots of money for youtube (and themsleves). If they weren't being paid, then they likely wouldn't make the same content. It's just smart to pay people sometimes. It makes business sense. Lots of the high profile debaters have left for various reasons. I bet they wouldn't have left if they were getting paid.

A lot of debates barely generate a few hundred hits, while some generate tens of thousands. And it should be obvious that not all of the content is of the same quality.

If you bring, as an individual bring in 100,000 views per debate, Juggle might listen.

-----> Not mine, but still... https://www.debate.org...

If those were video views on youtube, it would be worth about $1,200 to $3,000 for the author/authors. Of course, not all of those views are unique. I'm not sure what sure what the value would be for page views on a blog.

The full quote was "per debate". Having 1 debate reach that number wouldn't mean that ALL debates reach that number.

Further, as you note, the "views" counter doesn't track uniqueness. I've looked at debates and watched my own refreshes up the number a ridiculous amount. Particularly if I'm reading it on, say, my phone, in order to vote on it.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Freeman
Posts: 1,239
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7/3/2013 3:01:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 12:50:09 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/2/2013 9:48:30 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 7/2/2013 9:42:54 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Supply and demand. There is such a supply of people not asking for money, that those that demand money will get laughed off the site.

Lol

Unionism 101. All the debaters could join together and take action or in this case non action together.

NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!

DDO 101:

Half of the main cast of DDO consists of right-wingers that dislike unions. And we have enough people against unions that it wouldn't work and they'd continue to debate anyhow.

The difference between youtube partners and debate.org, is that youtube partners literally have millions of unique views on their channel. And remember, youtube didn't start the youtube partners programs until it became really big.

No sure about the first part. I don't think you need millions of views. I've seen some requirement data that says you need at least 1,000 views on most of videos you have, but that may be wrong.

I've done a couple of searches looking at the analytic of the site and from I've seen, things have really taken off. The estimates vary depending on where you look, but DDO has about 370,000 unique U.S. visitors every month as of 04/2013. It's probably around 410,000 now. https://siteanalytics.compete.com...

That's a tenfold increase from where things were back in June of 2012. So you have a tenfold increase in just a matter of ten months. That's really impressive. They must have some really good SEO (search engine optimization) people pulling things along. But to the point, someone is making quite a lot of money.

The data only goes back to may of 2012, which is weird because the site is older than that. Someone else must have taken it over or something. It would seem that it was someone who knew what they were doing.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

"I intend to live forever. So far, so good." -- Steven Wright
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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7/3/2013 3:13:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 3:01:55 AM, Freeman wrote:
At 7/3/2013 12:50:09 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/2/2013 9:48:30 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 7/2/2013 9:42:54 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Supply and demand. There is such a supply of people not asking for money, that those that demand money will get laughed off the site.

Lol

Unionism 101. All the debaters could join together and take action or in this case non action together.

NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!

DDO 101:

Half of the main cast of DDO consists of right-wingers that dislike unions. And we have enough people against unions that it wouldn't work and they'd continue to debate anyhow.

You under-estimate the power of self interest. If you can convince them that engaging in such activity will directly benefit them self............they'll come around.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/3/2013 3:28:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
1. Juggle makes next to nothing off us. They probably spend more on us than they make, with time and resources devoted to continuous updates and bug fixes.

2. Monetizing debates would completely corrupt debate quality. With money to gain, people would pay others to vote for them. People would debate too often, make them shorter, resort to more plagiarism and even create automatic programs to debate for them with an epidemic of multi-accounts.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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7/3/2013 5:16:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 9:42:54 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Supply and demand.

"Teach a parrot to say 'supply and demand' and you've got yourself an economist" -- Thomas Carlyle

I'd rather just go with the obvious: the website is a service, and they are providing it for free. Our activity is meaning our viewing of adverts, which means the payment of the site, to continue the service. We're voluntarily putting in, so we can hardly complain.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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7/3/2013 5:17:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 3:13:53 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 7/3/2013 3:01:55 AM, Freeman wrote:
At 7/3/2013 12:50:09 AM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/2/2013 9:48:30 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 7/2/2013 9:42:54 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Supply and demand. There is such a supply of people not asking for money, that those that demand money will get laughed off the site.

Lol

Unionism 101. All the debaters could join together and take action or in this case non action together.

NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!
NO MONEY, NO DEBATES !!!

DDO 101:

Half of the main cast of DDO consists of right-wingers that dislike unions. And we have enough people against unions that it wouldn't work and they'd continue to debate anyhow.

You under-estimate the power of self interest. If you can convince them that engaging in such activity will directly benefit them self............they'll come around.

You overestimate the rational aspect of these ideologues.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/3/2013 6:05:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 11:01:47 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 7/2/2013 10:54:57 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/2/2013 10:37:43 PM, Freeman wrote:
At 7/2/2013 10:22:36 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
Is this guy serious?

Yeah... Why wouldn't I be?

Because its a stupid idea and he was giving you a way to save face by allowing you to pawn it off as a joke.

Why is it stupid? What part of anything I've said is inaccurate?

You're asking DDO to pay for what they are already getting for free.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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7/3/2013 10:47:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ads only appear if the site is viewed by someone who is not signed in as a member. I'm surprised that business plan is enough to keep it going, let alone make enough money to pay contributors. The supply of opinion writers is so much greater than demand, that there is plenty of content. People do get exposure in return for their efforts, and that seems adequate for most people.

The Huffington Post site is instructive. They do not pay their bloggers, and when the site was sold to AOL for lebbenty-lebben million billion dollars recently, the bloggers didn't get a piece of it. They do pay their editors and site staff. A Huff Post editor pointed out that people flock to provide content in return for the forum to be heard. http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
mathdebator
Posts: 72
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7/3/2013 11:44:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't know how monetizing debates would exactly work, but Google owns a huge monopoly on basically the internet. They have their search engine which will always lead people to post their ads through AdWords or whatever. People then use AdSense to display these ads (mostly on YouTube) and get paid a generous portion of the money every time someone clicks and in turn makes the advertiser pay. So Google is profiting from people interacting with each other on its own services and is also giving that money to the people! Genius!

It's against the terms to disclose how much you make, but the YouTuber Cr1TiKaL (penguinz0) makes around $2,000 per month without the use of any video ads, which generally make good profit b/c people like me are used to clicking on the video to pause it. Ad on video = clicking accidentally on ad. He donates all this to charity each month and posts it to Twitter. He has probably around 600,000 subscribers, but that just shows you how generous Google is with their payouts. I can't imagine the kind of money PewDiePie or eHow are rolling in - all from simple YouTube videos!

Makes me wonder how advertisers can afford to toss out money like they do. Because I click on the ads with zero intention of buying their product and 100% intention of sucking out their money to my friends and favorite people hehe.