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GOP
Posts: 453
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7/2/2013 11:38:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'd like you guys to take a look at this debate:

http://www.debate.org...

One of the voters awarded all the seven points to Con just because Pro plagiarized. Is this the right method of voting?
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
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7/2/2013 11:49:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 11:38:36 PM, GOP wrote:
I'd like you guys to take a look at this debate:

http://www.debate.org...

One of the voters awarded all the seven points to Con just because Pro plagiarized. Is this the right method of voting?

Well it seems that Pro may have plagiarized, though even if they didn't they certainly FF'd two rounds and didn't win the debate regardless, so countering on this debate for whatever reason seems pretty pointless.

However, as to the principal of the matter. One may award conduct and arguments for plagiarism. There's no reason to default award 7 points for anything (what does plagiarism have to do with sources or S&G?). So in this case, assuming that there was plagiarism and that the plagiarized points made up a significant enough portion of Pro's arguments, their arguments would be invalidated and justify giving con arguments in addition to conduct.

In this case, Pro clearly lost the debate anyway, so I don't see the point of making a federal case about this and countering a 7 point vote against someone who not only may have plagiarized, but also didn't show up for the rest of the debate.

To reiterate, in general, plagiarism nor anything else I can think of justifies a 7 point vote. The points are separated by individual categories for a reason. So Plagiarism could justify arguments and conduct. That's it. Furthermore, I get a lot of reports about plagiarism. It does not constitute a conduct violation of the site. Voters should acknowledge it and the person responsible for it should lose the debate. That person is being shamed for it, but isn't going to be chastised in any official capacity for it.

So don't plagiarize folks. It makes you look bad, harms your reputation, and you'll probably get votebombed.
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x2MuzioPlayer
Posts: 37
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7/3/2013 3:21:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 11:38:36 PM, GOP wrote:
I'd like you guys to take a look at this debate:

http://www.debate.org...

One of the voters awarded all the seven points to Con just because Pro plagiarized. Is this the right method of voting?

I think you're talking about my vote, right? Just in case, I edited it to clear any misconceptions. For future reference (assuming it was me you were talking about), I don't shy away from justifying my RFDs, so by all means PM me or ask in the comments section for some elaboration.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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7/3/2013 3:27:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 11:49:18 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
There's no reason to default award 7 points for anything (what does plagiarism have to do with sources or S&G?).

If it's bad enough (and this wasn't bad enough, if only because the subsequent rounds were forefeited), as in everything is plagiarized (which I've seen...nothing but copypasta with no response to the actual opponent), I'll award Sources and S&G in addition to arguments and conduct because I feel I can't give credit for "sources" to someone who stole from their source without sourcing it, and I feel I can't give credit for S&G to someone who didn't type anything of their own. But that's just my opinion; I understand people who disagree.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
x2MuzioPlayer
Posts: 37
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7/3/2013 3:47:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 3:27:45 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 7/2/2013 11:49:18 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
There's no reason to default award 7 points for anything (what does plagiarism have to do with sources or S&G?).

If it's bad enough (and this wasn't bad enough, if only because the subsequent rounds were forefeited), as in everything is plagiarized (which I've seen...nothing but copypasta with no response to the actual opponent), I'll award Sources and S&G in addition to arguments and conduct because I feel I can't give credit for "sources" to someone who stole from their source without sourcing it, and I feel I can't give credit for S&G to someone who didn't type anything of their own. But that's just my opinion; I understand people who disagree.

I think that's a good way of putting it. Like you said, this is in extreme cases.
GOP
Posts: 453
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7/3/2013 3:54:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 11:49:18 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 7/2/2013 11:38:36 PM, GOP wrote:
I'd like you guys to take a look at this debate:

http://www.debate.org...

One of the voters awarded all the seven points to Con just because Pro plagiarized. Is this the right method of voting?

Well it seems that Pro may have plagiarized, though even if they didn't they certainly FF'd two rounds and didn't win the debate regardless, so countering on this debate for whatever reason seems pretty pointless.

However, as to the principal of the matter. One may award conduct and arguments for plagiarism. There's no reason to default award 7 points for anything (what does plagiarism have to do with sources or S&G?). So in this case, assuming that there was plagiarism and that the plagiarized points made up a significant enough portion of Pro's arguments, their arguments would be invalidated and justify giving con arguments in addition to conduct.

In this case, Pro clearly lost the debate anyway, so I don't see the point of making a federal case about this and countering a 7 point vote against someone who not only may have plagiarized, but also didn't show up for the rest of the debate.

To reiterate, in general, plagiarism nor anything else I can think of justifies a 7 point vote. The points are separated by individual categories for a reason. So Plagiarism could justify arguments and conduct. That's it. Furthermore, I get a lot of reports about plagiarism. It does not constitute a conduct violation of the site. Voters should acknowledge it and the person responsible for it should lose the debate. That person is being shamed for it, but isn't going to be chastised in any official capacity for it.

So don't plagiarize folks. It makes you look bad, harms your reputation, and you'll probably get votebombed.

I understand what you are saying, but I countered natoast's vote because the RFD was poor. I mean, I know it's not going to make a difference, but I would still like the viewers to know how much of a gap there is between the debaters points-wise.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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7/3/2013 4:03:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/3/2013 3:54:49 AM, GOP wrote:
At 7/2/2013 11:49:18 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 7/2/2013 11:38:36 PM, GOP wrote:
I'd like you guys to take a look at this debate:

http://www.debate.org...

One of the voters awarded all the seven points to Con just because Pro plagiarized. Is this the right method of voting?

Well it seems that Pro may have plagiarized, though even if they didn't they certainly FF'd two rounds and didn't win the debate regardless, so countering on this debate for whatever reason seems pretty pointless.

However, as to the principal of the matter. One may award conduct and arguments for plagiarism. There's no reason to default award 7 points for anything (what does plagiarism have to do with sources or S&G?). So in this case, assuming that there was plagiarism and that the plagiarized points made up a significant enough portion of Pro's arguments, their arguments would be invalidated and justify giving con arguments in addition to conduct.


In this case, Pro clearly lost the debate anyway, so I don't see the point of making a federal case about this and countering a 7 point vote against someone who not only may have plagiarized, but also didn't show up for the rest of the debate.

To reiterate, in general, plagiarism nor anything else I can think of justifies a 7 point vote. The points are separated by individual categories for a reason. So Plagiarism could justify arguments and conduct. That's it. Furthermore, I get a lot of reports about plagiarism. It does not constitute a conduct violation of the site. Voters should acknowledge it and the person responsible for it should lose the debate. That person is being shamed for it, but isn't going to be chastised in any official capacity for it.

So don't plagiarize folks. It makes you look bad, harms your reputation, and you'll probably get votebombed.

I understand what you are saying, but I countered natoast's vote because the RFD was poor. I mean, I know it's not going to make a difference, but I would still like the viewers to know how much of a gap there is between the debaters points-wise.

The vote you countered has an RFD which is insufficient and expressly disregards the plagiarism and the forfeit. I think the vote could be justified, but you're correct that it was not. If the voter updates, you should as well accordingly.

In the cases I noted, I note EXACTLY why I'm awarding what I'm awarding. Anyone who doesn't, is vote bombing, even if they're kidding. They'll be all right if everyone gets the joke, but it's not other voters' fault if they don't and treat it as a bomb.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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7/3/2013 5:27:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/2/2013 11:38:36 PM, GOP wrote:
I'd like you guys to take a look at this debate:

http://www.debate.org...

One of the voters awarded all the seven points to Con just because Pro plagiarized. Is this the right method of voting?

I followed your link. It is clearly a full forfeit situation. So I voted all seven points for plagiarism.

We're doing the perp a favor. She'll have a hard life if she doesn't figure out early that plagiarism is not accepted. Saying, "Also, I don't remember you saying anything about plagiarizing in the rules," does not excuse cheating.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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7/3/2013 5:36:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If she learns from this, she may turn out to be a valuable DDO contributor. But if not, if she does it a couple more times, she should be permanently banned. If she doesn't learn, she may eventually get herself fired or kicked out of college, or otherwise ruin her life. This is a teaching moment.