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My preference for Sources

TUF
Posts: 21,309
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7/14/2013 10:41:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I know that people like to number their sources IE (1)

1.http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net...

I know that this gives the appearance of better organization, but here's why I hate it.

As a voter, or a reader, it's annoying trying to scroll all the way to the bottom of a person's argument, just to verify if what they sourced was accurate, or from a believable destination.

In my debates, I usually place the source right underneath the argument I make, so that readers can instantly verify what I have to say.

I don't really think this looks too much less organized than the first way.

Does anyone agree with my way rather than the standard way, or have any additional arguments for the organized look way that I may be mis-understanding?
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/14/2013 10:45:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What's difference between scrolling down a little bit at the end of the round to read the sources and scrolling down a little bit at the end of your contention to read the sources? Both work.

But, just as a matter of preference, seeing blue highlights intermittently in an argument makes it seem a little disorganized.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
TUF
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7/14/2013 10:54:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/14/2013 10:45:25 AM, 000ike wrote:
What's difference between scrolling down a little bit at the end of the round to read the sources and scrolling down a little bit at the end of your contention to read the sources? Both work.

I don't usually put them at the end of a contention, I do it right below the actually claim. It's a lot less scrolling, and less confusion for the readers. I have lost where I was at in arguments before because of this, and it's a nuisance having to try and find my place again. It's not a huge problem, just something I don't think is worth the effort.

But, just as a matter of preference, seeing blue highlights intermittently in an argument makes it seem a little disorganized.

Really? I've never once got this impression. I wonder how many others think the same way as you, as opposed to those who just do it because everyone else does it.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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7/14/2013 11:05:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I feel from an aesthetic perspective, it breaks up the flow of the text. Sources should be supplemental, I list them at the end because you shouldn't have to look at them, while my case should flow.

When reading other people's debates, I check their sources after I've taken their case on its own merits. If you (indefinite pronoun, not YOU you) read the sources while I'm reading the argument, you might conflate the argument of their sources with their own argument, making them look better than the case they presented deserved.

But that's just my preference.
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bladerunner060
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7/14/2013 11:08:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/14/2013 11:05:35 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
if you (indefinite pronoun, not YOU you) read the sources while you're reading the argument, you might conflate the argument of their sources with their own...

Sorry, editing error; fixed.
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TUF
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7/14/2013 11:13:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/14/2013 11:05:35 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
I feel from an aesthetic perspective, it breaks up the flow of the text. Sources should be supplemental, I list them at the end because you shouldn't have to look at them, while my case should flow.

I dis-agree. I have seen people make some pretty wild and crazy statements, and try to justify them with a source. Upon cross-checking their source, I am sometimes bewildered to find that the source they used didn't actually say anything in conjunction to the argument they made, or it was twisted or emphasized into their own words, almost falsifying the actual occurrence. I almost always look at sources. I don't want to throw out names, but I found similar things in a recent debate I read, which now makes me feel as if I should have to cross check all sources for reference.

When reading other people's debates, I check their sources after I've taken their case on its own merits. If you (indefinite pronoun, not YOU you) read the sources while I'm reading the argument, you might conflate the argument of their sources with their own argument, making them look better than the case they presented deserved.

That's true, though I will admit, sometimes reading someone's source will better explain their argument. For example: Nouema. He is super wordy and vague, but I feel often times when he provides sources for his arguments, I can get a better understanding for what the heck he is talking about. lol (no offense nouema, you are a great debater!)

But that's just my preference.

I guess preference is really all it comes down to though, ultimately.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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7/14/2013 12:05:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
One reason I prefer numbered sources, is the same source can be pointed to in multiple rounds... Such as in R1 I have sources 1-3, R2 I have sources 4-5, by R3 I can probably point back to past sources.

As a voter I greatly prefer numbered sources, largely because I can quickly compare source lists at a glance (wiki and tinyurl rarely furthering a case).
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1Devilsadvocate
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7/14/2013 12:35:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/14/2013 11:13:42 AM, TUF wrote:
At 7/14/2013 11:05:35 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
I feel from an aesthetic perspective, it breaks up the flow of the text. Sources should be supplemental, I list them at the end because you shouldn't have to look at them, while my case should flow.

I dis-agree. I have seen people make some pretty wild and crazy statements, and try to justify them with a source. Upon cross-checking their source, I am sometimes bewildered to find that the source they used didn't actually say anything in conjunction to the argument they made, or it was twisted or emphasized into their own words, almost falsifying the actual occurrence. I almost always look at sources. I don't want to throw out names, but I found similar things in a recent debate I read, which now makes me feel as if I should have to cross check all sources for reference.

When reading other people's debates, I check their sources after I've taken their case on its own merits.

Isn't it the opposing debaters responsibility to check his opponents sources & point out any flaws?
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
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Eitan_Zohar
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7/14/2013 2:55:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why can't we have a system like Wikipedia? Just o on a page and highlight a number and you'll see what I mean.
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donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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7/15/2013 12:31:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
When I give sources, they come right after the paragraph.

I don't do large paragraphs, so everything's split into them, and I figure the space in between paragraphs is a great place for that Paragraph's sources.
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donald.keller
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7/15/2013 12:37:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/14/2013 2:55:50 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Why can't we have a system like Wikipedia? Just o on a page and highlight a number and you'll see what I mean.

I like that idea. It would help everyone not waste Characters on sources, when the characters should be going to your arguments. I want to be able put in all my sources without the concern of not having enough characters left to finish. I've ran into that issue twice so far.

The only problem is that I like having sources in between the paragraphs because they (and their color) separate my arguments and makes the page appear more comfortable to read than a long line of paragraphs.

Of course, I could just do both.
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Ragnar
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7/15/2013 1:08:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 12:37:37 AM, donald.keller wrote:
I like that idea. It would help everyone not waste Characters on sources, when the characters should be going to your arguments.

I kind of think sources taking characters, is a fair trade off since they can greatly influence matters.
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