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Goodbye

larztheloser
Posts: 857
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7/15/2013 2:32:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
After being threatened with a ban and Airmax overstepping his authority on multiple levels, I am officially giving up on my quest to improve DDO.

I know that I said a bunch of things about what I intended to do, but I'm finding myself spending far too much time arguing with site users over really dumb things. I don't have time to deal with any of that - I guess I was dreaming when I thought everybody here was primarily interested in having as many fun debates as possible. Unfortunately I've been dragged into the dirty world of politics, and that's not why I'm here.

I'm here to have fun. To debate, and to help others have fun via debating. Debating is still fun - right? This site is supposed to be fun.

That's why I won't be running my tournaments any more. I'm very deeply sorry and hope that others will fill the place well. But I can't run tournaments when Airmax keeps sending me all sorts of contradictory demands. Not only that, but I don't want to deal with those demands. I am sure that participants can still enjoy them.

I won't be working on any of the things to improve voting any more. I think voting remains this site's weakest link and I'm very grateful to the many members that have supported me in everything I've done. But again, starting now, I'm not going to argue with anybody about this when their interests are not with making this the best debate site in the world, especially when those same members keep saying the same thing over and over without engaging with my arguments, as several members have done.

For the record, this is not just about my voting tool but about a number of things over the last few weeks, although the attacks on that have in part been at once both ridiculous and sad. Thank you so much to those users who have sent me your words of support, it means a lot to me.

I don't expect to return to the forums again but you can message me if you have any questions. I might still be debating from time to time and will finish all the debates I've said I'll do, but I've been left quite bitter by this experience and so I guess we'll just have to see. I do regret this outcome and wish everyone on DDO well.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,245
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7/15/2013 2:54:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 2:32:57 AM, larztheloser wrote:
After being threatened with a ban and Airmax overstepping his authority on multiple levels, I am officially giving up on my quest to improve DDO.


I think it's a shame that you are intending to leave DDO and I hope you will reconsider.

The comment above comes after a long discussion about what may be posted to the site. The tool devised was interesting and may have been a useful asset to helping voting. However, when I became aware of it, due to the nature of the tool, it became necessary to make Juggle aware. Juggle expressed reservations about it, and said they would look into it, and determine whether or not such a thing could be advertised on the site.

Before having Juggle follow up with their conclusion and give their approval or disapproval, Larz posted it to the site anyway. Since it is my responsibility as the site moderator to remove things Juggle doesn't approve of from the site, I naturally removed it from the site.

After a lengthy conversation with Larz about it, I made it clear that if he posted it again to the site, prior to Juggle approving it, I would have to close his account temporarily pending Juggles decision on the matter.

This was a very simple matter of something needing Juggle's approval. It didn't have Juggles approval, so it was removed.
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airmax1227
Posts: 13,245
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7/15/2013 3:18:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 2:32:57 AM, larztheloser wrote:
That's why I won't be running my tournaments any more. I'm very deeply sorry and hope that others will fill the place well. But I can't run tournaments when Airmax keeps sending me all sorts of contradictory demands. Not only that, but I don't want to deal with those demands. I am sure that participants can still enjoy them.


I didn't make any demands. I made one suggestion (aside from insisting that Juggle approve the tool). This being that since many of the debates were going to be finishing at the same time, that a possible solution and approach to the voting issues be considered. How you approached that (if at all) was entirely up to you.

The solution was the tool that had been devised, and since even before Juggle had expressed reservations about it, I knew it was possible Juggle may have such reservations about it, I suggested having another option available in such a case.
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airmax1227
Posts: 13,245
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7/15/2013 3:27:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
With the attacks on me aside, I think it's a shame that you are planning to leave DDO. While Juggle has its reservations on user-created coding things like the tool you created, there are other ways in which you can help the site, and you already have by, for example, being an active debater and voter.

Juggle and the site membership appreciate the work you have done, and it's unfortunate that this event has deterred your enthusiasm for it.

I think you should strongly reconsider, and take a different approach (one Juggle wont have reservations about) to helping the site in the future.

Juggle already has plans to implement certain new features that will touch on what you created in the future, and the site should improve with that. In the mean time, there are other ways in which everyone can contribute to helping with the sites issues.

As I said, I think you should reconsider leaving. You have been a valuable member and the site will lose something significant with the loss of your membership and contributions.
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TUF
Posts: 21,310
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7/15/2013 6:18:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What is this tool? My curiosity is peaked. If anything, Larz you should pm me about it.

also why would juggle disapprove of something that is designed to help the site? If that is its intention, why not just post it and explain to juggle what is if for if they have any complaints?

Larz is a great debater, voter, and member, and I really hope he doesn't leave for getting in trouble for only helping the site. Also why would you threaten a member such as Larz With a ban in the first place?
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
gordonjames
Posts: 47
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7/15/2013 6:48:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 2:32:57 AM, larztheloser wrote:
I am officially giving up on my quest to improve DDO.

Hey - don't give up.
No change or improvement comes easy.
MassiveDump
Posts: 3,423
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7/15/2013 6:52:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Larztheloser. The one who brought MassiveDump into the spotlight with something as simple as ponies.

2011-2013

Never forget.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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7/15/2013 7:01:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Knowing Larz for being a sore loser, I wouldn't be surprised at all of 80% or more of his accusations of Airmax are nothing more then complete bullsh*t....
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
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7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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7/15/2013 7:12:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't understand why people refuse to accept that Juggle doesn't want people messing with site code. Plus, he was only threatening to ban you temporarily, which means he WAS being lenient. Altering site code is grounds for a permanent ban.
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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7/15/2013 8:03:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 6:18:12 AM, TUF wrote:
What is this tool? My curiosity is peaked. If anything, Larz you should pm me about it.

also why would juggle disapprove of something that is designed to help the site? If that is its intention, why not just post it and explain to juggle what is if for if they have any complaints?

Larz is a great debater, voter, and member, and I really hope he doesn't leave for getting in trouble for only helping the site. Also why would you threaten a member such as Larz With a ban in the first place?

No one answer this, just ignore me. I am not seeking a flame war, and my opinion on who was right doesn't matter. Plus I have had my questions answered. /Ending posts in this thread now.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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7/15/2013 11:33:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 3:30:51 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
This thread just makes me feel like your guys' PMs suddenly became publicly visible lol

I second this.
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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7/15/2013 1:53:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 3:27:19 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
Juggle already has plans to implement certain new features that will touch on what you created in the future, and the site should improve with that. In the mean time, there are other ways in which everyone can contribute to helping with the sites

Honestly, I don't care if Juggle has plans for something similar I'm the future. Larz already started it. There was nothing that could be harmful to Juggle about it. It specifically said at pretty much every opportunity possible that the site was not actually DDO, it wouldn't let you log into your account, and it 's not exactly a competing business or taking revenue away from Juggle of anything. Larz specifically said that once Juggle had something equivalent or better, he would take it down. All he was doing was holding down the fort until Juggle acted and taking the initiative to actually improve the site, not just suggest improvements. He should be thanked, not threatened with a ban.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

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It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/15/2013 2:22:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 2:32:57 AM, larztheloser wrote:
After being threatened with a ban and Airmax overstepping his authority on multiple levels, I am officially giving up on my quest to improve DDO.

I know that I said a bunch of things about what I intended to do, but I'm finding myself spending far too much time arguing with site users over really dumb things. I don't have time to deal with any of that - I guess I was dreaming when I thought everybody here was primarily interested in having as many fun debates as possible. Unfortunately I've been dragged into the dirty world of politics, and that's not why I'm here.

I'm here to have fun. To debate, and to help others have fun via debating. Debating is still fun - right? This site is supposed to be fun.

That's why I won't be running my tournaments any more. I'm very deeply sorry and hope that others will fill the place well. But I can't run tournaments when Airmax keeps sending me all sorts of contradictory demands. Not only that, but I don't want to deal with those demands. I am sure that participants can still enjoy them.

I won't be working on any of the things to improve voting any more. I think voting remains this site's weakest link and I'm very grateful to the many members that have supported me in everything I've done. But again, starting now, I'm not going to argue with anybody about this when their interests are not with making this the best debate site in the world, especially when those same members keep saying the same thing over and over without engaging with my arguments, as several members have done.

For the record, this is not just about my voting tool but about a number of things over the last few weeks, although the attacks on that have in part been at once both ridiculous and sad. Thank you so much to those users who have sent me your words of support, it means a lot to me.

I don't expect to return to the forums again but you can message me if you have any questions. I might still be debating from time to time and will finish all the debates I've said I'll do, but I've been left quite bitter by this experience and so I guess we'll just have to see. I do regret this outcome and wish everyone on DDO well.

[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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7/15/2013 4:33:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Maybe you two can start a debate over who was in the wrong, and extend it for 60,000 characters.

What was the controversy over? This isn't making a whole lot of sense.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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7/15/2013 4:53:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 2:54:12 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
This was a very simple matter of something needing Juggle's approval. It didn't have Juggles approval, so it was removed.

Yup.
Tsar of DDO
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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7/15/2013 7:39:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 1:47:29 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
Goodbye.

Lmao, that's cold.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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7/15/2013 9:14:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 7:39:54 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/15/2013 1:47:29 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
Goodbye.

Lmao, that's cold.

Meh....
Tsar of DDO
Sargon
Posts: 524
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7/15/2013 9:15:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 9:14:55 PM, YYW wrote:
[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]

How do you purchase a gold account?

[joke]
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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7/15/2013 9:16:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 9:15:35 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:14:55 PM, YYW wrote:
[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]

How do you purchase a gold account?

[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]
Tsar of DDO
Sargon
Posts: 524
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7/15/2013 9:18:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 9:16:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:15:35 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:14:55 PM, YYW wrote:
[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]

How do you purchase a gold account?

[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]

Aww, damn. Now I won't get to talk to anyone.
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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7/15/2013 9:19:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 9:18:04 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:16:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:15:35 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:14:55 PM, YYW wrote:
[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]

How do you purchase a gold account?

[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]

Aww, damn. Now I won't get to talk to anyone.

[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]
Tsar of DDO
Sargon
Posts: 524
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7/15/2013 9:21:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 9:19:37 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:18:04 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:16:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:15:35 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:14:55 PM, YYW wrote:
[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]

How do you purchase a gold account?

[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]

Aww, damn. Now I won't get to talk to anyone.

[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]

[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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7/15/2013 9:39:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 9:21:57 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:19:37 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:18:04 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:16:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:15:35 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:14:55 PM, YYW wrote:
[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]

How do you purchase a gold account?

[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]

Aww, damn. Now I won't get to talk to anyone.

[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]

[This comment can only be seen by Gold users of Debate.org]

Welcome to the party.
Tsar of DDO
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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7/15/2013 10:54:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 9:14:40 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/15/2013 7:39:54 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/15/2013 1:47:29 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
Goodbye.

Lmao, that's cold.

Meh....

Come on, man. Larz posts a relatively long farewell post, and Historygenius is just like "kbai."
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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7/15/2013 11:05:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 10:54:11 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/15/2013 9:14:40 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/15/2013 7:39:54 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/15/2013 1:47:29 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
Goodbye.

Lmao, that's cold.

Meh....

Come on, man. Larz posts a relatively long farewell post, and Historygenius is just like "kbai."

People come and go, and I'd put a fair amount of money on Larz returning... probably before the end of the week.
Tsar of DDO