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Team debates Request to Juggle

TUF
Posts: 21,309
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7/15/2013 9:38:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Juggle, I would like to make a request to advance the efforts in creating team debates. From talking to Alex, I know that you guys don't have the time (or at least that was the response I got a few months ago, I am not sure if this is still relevant).

I am a big lover of this site and it's members, and rather than begging for you guys to do all the work, I will offer my own help in this area. The purpose of this thread is also to see if other members would be willing to participate in this effort.

I can help in one of several ways..

1. Donate money. I doubt it's a lack of funding issue, but maybe a tip will be a nice working incentive to get this crackin' out. I make quite a bit more money than I physically need at my job, and can easily spare a bit if needed, in order to help this effort. I would be willing to give up to 500$ for time, work effort, and whatever other costs might go into this project.

2. Help with the coding. I have a little experience in design, and can help with efforts to create this. I have talked to another member who is experienced with coding, who told me that realistically this project shouldn't be very hard.If this is the case, I can get right on to helping get this working into motion.

I am sure others would be willing to help as well if asked, though this largely is up to the Juggle team and staff's approval.

This is something we've wanted for months, and I think it's time to start working on it! Team debates will even make up for the implementation of the opinions section. Maybe people will forget about the other updates they didn't like.

Anyone willing to help donate, or provide their efforts, I advise please post their willingness to help.

INB4 speech from airmax about potential problems with this/ speaking for and as juggle.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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7/15/2013 10:05:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Go for it. I'm not experienced in coding, but I would love to volunteer my time as a beta tester. Let's make this happen.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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7/15/2013 10:19:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Start by explaining how you imagine such a function. Just two people arguing for one side versus two others doesn't say much. You'll need some ideas for rules etc.
ClassicRobert
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7/15/2013 10:28:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't picture it as necessarily just 2 v. 2. I picture it as being able to decide, up to the number of rounds there are, how many people are on one side. For example, if one side thinks that they can take the instigating team with only one or two people, while the instigating side has three, then they could do that. I also picture the submit your argument part being a little different, in the sense that all members of a team can see it and recommend changes. After work, I'll come up with a more detailed proposal.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

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Mirza
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7/15/2013 10:32:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 10:28:24 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
I don't picture it as necessarily just 2 v. 2. I picture it as being able to decide, up to the number of rounds there are, how many people are on one side. For example, if one side thinks that they can take the instigating team with only one or two people, while the instigating side has three, then they could do that. I also picture the submit your argument part being a little different, in the sense that all members of a team can see it and recommend changes. After work, I'll come up with a more detailed proposal.
So multiple people versus multiple people.

Time and other resources spent for this will likely be plenty. Unless you have some good ideas, I think the idea seems to be waste. New members will likely not team up with each other, so that leaves us with mostly the active ones doing team debates -- which in return means less voting, which is already an issue.

And so on.
ClassicRobert
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7/15/2013 10:34:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 10:32:21 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 7/15/2013 10:28:24 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
I don't picture it as necessarily just 2 v. 2. I picture it as being able to decide, up to the number of rounds there are, how many people are on one side. For example, if one side thinks that they can take the instigating team with only one or two people, while the instigating side has three, then they could do that. I also picture the submit your argument part being a little different, in the sense that all members of a team can see it and recommend changes. After work, I'll come up with a more detailed proposal.
So multiple people versus multiple people.

Time and other resources spent for this will likely be plenty. Unless you have some good ideas, I think the idea seems to be waste. New members will likely not team up with each other, so that leaves us with mostly the active ones doing team debates -- which in return means less voting, which is already an issue.

And so on.

To me, it seems like we're doing it, and Juggle is going to basically decide to approve it, or just have us doing it externally. If this is volunteer, as it seems like, then that's not exactly a problem. We're doing it because it would be fun, and we love the website.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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7/15/2013 10:35:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Same rules as normal voting.

Formatting can be implemented in several ways.

I think a good way would be alternating.

TEAM 1 VS TEAM 2

Round 1:

Team 1 person 1 instigates arguments

Team 2 Person 1 Responds.

Team 1 Person 2 Add's arguments or rebuttals

Team 2 person 2 add's arguments or rebuttals

Repeat for however many rounds implemented. There would have to be a minimum of two rounds for this, unless the format would accept both team's person 2 in the first round. I like the first Idea better, so it doesn't drag out a debate.

Forfeit's should not be counted against one team, and should give the team member a chance to make arguments for his missing partner.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
JustinAMoffatt
Posts: 40
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7/15/2013 10:42:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'll volunteer as a beta tester as well. Sadly, I don't have much else to give aside from my time. :/ But anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask :)
THE_OPINIONATOR
Posts: 575
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7/15/2013 10:44:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
We could base it off of a PFD type of format? If that were possible we could modify it to be adaptable to DDO. With anything new, like the new update it will take time to work out the bugs.
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ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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7/15/2013 11:01:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
So, In regards to new users, I think it's a great way to orient them to the website with a new member outreach plan where experienced members will help out new members, and team debates would be a great way to help an active members to take a new user under his or her wing.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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7/15/2013 11:04:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hope you'll make a difference TUF. Thanks.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

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Cobo
Posts: 556
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7/15/2013 8:54:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This idea has floated around for years now. Juggle needs to make this happen. I would love to see a 5v5 debate with Danielle, Roy, Kleptin, JCMT and Bluesteel vs Koopin, inferno, Imabench, Writerdave and Geo.
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DetectableNinja
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7/15/2013 9:01:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 11:01:45 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
So, In regards to new users, I think it's a great way to orient them to the website with a new member outreach plan where experienced members will help out new members, and team debates would be a great way to help an active members to take a new user under his or her wing.

That's been a proposal/initiative that I've began in the past. It's difficult to maintain.
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TUF
Posts: 21,309
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7/15/2013 9:02:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I want to hear juggles response and see if more people are willing to help, than I will create a pm.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
lannan13
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7/16/2013 10:14:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'll help out. If needed.
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bladerunner060
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7/16/2013 11:47:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I attempted to get Team Debates going awhile back.

It fizzled not due to intereference from our hosts, but due to lack of interest from members.

There is a mechanism that can be utilized to do team debating currently (although there isn't a way for it to be reflected in the stats of the individuals participating).

If there is interest in this, REAL interest, we can do it. But, again, this was tried and fizzled due to lack of participation. Anyone who would like to do Team Debates is welcome to PM me, and we can try again.
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Debate.org_Official
Posts: 93
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7/16/2013 1:18:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hello, everyone!

Juggle is aware that team debates are something several veteran members and seasoned debaters are interested in. However, there are a few reservations we have, the main one being how many people would actually use the feature. As Mirza pointed out, "New members will likely not team up with each other, so that leaves us with mostly the active ones doing team debates -- which in return means less voting, which is already an issue."

In our eyes, it seems more logical to first implement changes that will help get more people voting on debates. Then, once we have the desired amount of voting activity, we can move on to building out more avenues for debate. After all, who wants to spend time debating if no one is going to vote on their debate? Of course, however, we are always open to hearing your ideas on this topic.

Finally, it would be useful for us to have a better idea of exactly how many members would use team debates if it were to be implemented. Therefore, we have created an Opinion poll on the subject. Please be sure to submit your response: http://www.debate.org...

As always, thank you very much for your feedback, passion, and effort. We are aware that certain members want team debates; it is merely a matter of if and when it makes sense to build out that feature or focus on others first.

If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, feel free to reach out to us here or via PM.

Thanks!