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When the Resolution is Irrelevant

donald.keller
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8/9/2013 12:46:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
When the Resolution is Irrelevant to it's Question. On Arguing the Cause.

An example:
Gang members are killing Citizens, should the Government get involved?

The Resolution is made of three parts.
The Cause
The Subject
The Question

Each can often be found like this.
[The Cause] [The Subject of the Resolution] [The Question of the Resolution]

[Gang members] [are killing Citizens,] [should the Government get involved?]

The Resolution is irrelevant to it's Question here. The Resolution is about the Question, and the Subject is an important part of the Question. The Cause, however, isn't always important. This Resolution is irrelevant to the Question, as it boils down to a different Resolution altogether.

Citizens are being killed, should the Government get involved?

The Subject must exist for the Question to exist. Must the Government get involved? Involved in what? Therefore the Question can not be asked. For this reason, the Subject is important.

The Cause is removed because it is irrelevant to the Question. Unfortunately, adding it into the Resolution makes it apart of the Resolution, and must be accounted for once added. If it is irrelevant to the Question, it makes the Resolution irrelevant to the Question. The Resolution is irrelevant because it doesn't matter who is killing the Citizens. The answer comes down to answering another Resolution (or question, as we'll get to), Citizens are being killed, should the Government get involved? This Resolution is okay though.

It is often important to avoid the Cause, and is often not just voluntary. Here is why...
________________________________________
|.........................|Additions....|Cause............|
|Resolution...|........................|Subject.........|
|.........................|Resolution..|Question.....|

The Cause is an Addition to the Resolution. As such, it usually gets added for Appeal to Emotion and Red Herring. The Cause, more often than not, is deadly to the Resolution by moving the focus of the Resolution away from itself.

This is found in the following Resolution.
Should a woman have an Abortion if she was raped?

Here, it is harder to find because it is backwards.
[Question of the Resolution] [Subject of the Resolution] [Cause]
[Should a woman] [have an Abortion] [if she was raped?]

The cause, here, is clever. It is both an Appeal to Emotion and Red Herring. It moves the Resolution away from the Question.

Why is the cause distracting here? Because of how the Question must be answered.

The Answer to this question is found in the question "Is Abortion Okay", whom's answer is found in the question "Is a Fetus a living human?" Everyone understands they must answer the Question behind the Resolution, and this would be it. Most Resolutions are a chain of questions, as one question never honestly answers the complexity of a Resolution.

_______________________________________________________________________________
|...........................................................Is Abortion okay?............................................................|
|........................................................Is Abortion murder?..........................................................|
|A fetus is a living human..........................|..................... A fetus is not a living human|
|An abortion is than murder....................|.............. An abortion is than not murder|
|Abortion is not okay.................................|......................................... A abortion is okay|
|Answer: No...................................................|..................................................... Answer: Yes|

Here, we see the Cause doesn't effect the actual Question. It only moves the Resolution away from the Question. Getting involved in such a debate, the Resolution has been set against the Con.

This is dangerous to the Resolution, where the Cause doesn't affect the actual question, which is whether or not Abortion is murder or is not murder. We know it doesn't affect the Question, because if a fetus is a living human when conceived from consensual sex, it is still a living human when conceived from rape, therefore the abortion is still murder. Therefore the cause is only a distraction, it doesn't change what must be answered.

Unless one could prove the Cause changes the Subject or Question. In this case, One must prove that the woman being raped changes the answer to the prior question, or changes what question must be answered. Otherwise, the Cause makes the Resolution into a fallacy. This is because the Cause distracts us from the Resolution, or at least from the Question of the Resolution, using Red Herring and Appeal to Emotions.

How do you know if the Cause is okay?
Review the following Resolution.
If it is past curfew, is it okay to go walking?

[Cause] [Question of the Resolution] [Subject of the Resolution]
[If it is past curfew] , [is it okay] [to go walking?]

This Cause is important, because it changes the questions that must be asked, or changes the answer. The big question who's answer it changes can be seen below.

__________________________________________________________________________
|..........................................................Is Walking okay?......................................................|
|..........................................................Is Walking illegal?....................................................|
|It's not illegal..............................................|................................................... It's illegal|
|Answer: Yes.................................................|.............................................. Answer: No|

Unlike the prior example, this Cause changes the answer....

Resolution:
Is it okay to go walking? The answer to the question is on the left.
If it is past curfew, is it okay to go walking? The answer to the question is on the right.

While the first Resolution still requires more Questions to answer the Question of the Resolution, the second Resolution has been answered immediately.

So how to tell if a Cause is bad?

Break down the Question of the Resolution. Find out what questions must be answered to find the answer to the Resolution. If the Cause changes the questions or the answers, it's vital to the Resolution. If it changes nothing, it's likely bad. You must now determine if it's Red Herring of Appeal to Emotions.

A Resolution with a Cause added in is still a Resolution separate of the original.
Should a woman have an Abortion if she was raped?
.....is still different than.....
Should a woman have an Abortion?

While the Question is the same, the Resolution is not. As read above, the Cause is now apart of the Resolution, and must be accounted for. Do not attempt to enter the Debate with the intentions of changing the Resolution.

The Cause is bad because it makes the Resolution irrelevant to it's Question, and turns it into a fallacy. The Resolution is still the sum of each part, and you can not attempt to win by ignoring a part of the Resolution.

You must answer the Subject/Question and void the Cause by proving the Resolution is Arguing the Cause.

CONCLUSION:
Adding a fallacious Cause to a Resolution is Arguing the Cause.
A requires us add 1 + 2
B requires us add 1 + 2
The answer is the same, unless A or B changes the equation.

Avoid Resolutions that Argue the Cause. Do not create a Resolution that Argues the Cause.

Thank you for your attention!
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donald.keller
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8/9/2013 11:40:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hello?..
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wrichcirw
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8/10/2013 5:35:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I read the first couple sentences of this post.

I believe the proper resolution is "The government should get involved in preventing gang-related killings." PRO/CON
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
donald.keller
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8/10/2013 6:36:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The government should get involved in preventing gang-related killings.

[Question of the Resolution] [Cause] [Subject of the Resolution]
[The government should get involved in preventing] [gang-related] [killings]

Still relevant. :D
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RoyLatham
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8/11/2013 12:01:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"The Subject must exist for the Question to exist. Must the Government get involved? Involved in what? Therefore the Question can not be asked. For this reason, the Subject is important."

DDO is somewhat different from academic debate. DDO debate titles are limited to about 80 characters, so sometimes it isn't possible to fit a full resolution into the title. The short titles are good, because it makes it easier to scan lists of debates.

When a resolution is abbreviated to fit the title space, the Instigator ought to give the full resolution as part of the challenge, but sometimes he doesn't do that. That can still be acceptable if the challenge includes enough context to figure out the resolution. An ambiguous title can be saved if, for example, the challenge states the problem or points to an article giving background information. It's best to spell it out, but enough context can make the meaning clear.

The same applies to resolving semantic problems. Supplying enough background can make the meanings apparent.

Resolutions in the subject/question format are uncommon on DDO. Resolutions are best posed here as statements that can be affirmed or denied.
donald.keller
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8/11/2013 12:08:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 12:01:09 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
"The Subject must exist for the Question to exist. Must the Government get involved? Involved in what? Therefore the Question can not be asked. For this reason, the Subject is important."

DDO is somewhat different from academic debate. DDO debate titles are limited to about 80 characters, so sometimes it isn't possible to fit a full resolution into the title. The short titles are good, because it makes it easier to scan lists of debates.

When a resolution is abbreviated to fit the title space, the Instigator ought to give the full resolution as part of the challenge, but sometimes he doesn't do that. That can still be acceptable if the challenge includes enough context to figure out the resolution. An ambiguous title can be saved if, for example, the challenge states the problem or points to an article giving background information. It's best to spell it out, but enough context can make the meaning clear.

The same applies to resolving semantic problems. Supplying enough background can make the meanings apparent.

Resolutions in the subject/question format are uncommon on DDO. Resolutions are best posed here as statements that can be affirmed or denied.

I wasn't aware of the Academic Debate set up.. I didn't take classes or do Debates in school.

I made this up on a walk home.

I figure if not in the Title Resolution, this essay might then apply better to a resolution in the R1 summary.

===========================================

All around, how's the essay?
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RoyLatham
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8/11/2013 1:20:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 12:08:19 AM, donald.keller wrote:

All around, how's the essay?

The essay is fine. It treats a situation that doesn't up very often, because there are so many alternative ways to screw up a resolution.
donald.keller
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8/11/2013 1:30:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well it's on of many issues. Well not the most common, it is one of the worst (not to be confused with being the worst).
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donald.keller
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12/26/2014 11:14:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Bump.

I remember writing this lol. I forgot about every bit of this until just now.
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headphonegut
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12/26/2014 11:31:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You need a proximate cause, so you don't beg the question: who is doing the killing. The cause focuses the resolution on a specific topic or affair, and relates it to an institution(s) duties, in this case the govt. We apply what our knowledge about what the government is and either affirm or negate the cause relating to the subject. Is the government primarily an economic institution, and has other functions to maintain its primary one? Or what have you. I don't think the cause takes away from whatever discussion the question is presenting.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
headphonegut
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12/26/2014 11:32:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/26/2014 11:14:20 PM, donald.keller wrote:
Bump.

I remember writing this lol. I forgot about every bit of this until just now.

I enjoyed the read. Thanks for bringing it up again. You should be proud.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?