Total Posts:38|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

What "Product" does Debate.org sell?

wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2013 5:25:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Simply curious.

What is this website's path to profitability? What is its "product"? What does it "sell"?

We are obviously members, but customers? That's stretching the word's meaning. There's no financial transaction between DDO and members, nor between members.

There's little to no advertising, so the premise that they are selling ad space to vendors looking for potential customer bases is no compelling.

Does anyone have a plausible answer? To me, this currently looks like a gigantic loss leader.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
TUF
Posts: 21,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2013 6:08:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The amount of traffic they get, IE views etc. Also this is a content based website, sort of like many popular blogs (though this site is much much larger).

Every debate we do, every controversial forum we make, gets them search ability, and acquires interest.

Freeman made a Topic about this a month ago.

http://www.debate.org...

There are advertisements, I've seen them before, but once I started using adblock I don't anymore.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2013 6:25:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 6:08:01 PM, TUF wrote:
The amount of traffic they get, IE views etc. Also this is a content based website, sort of like many popular blogs (though this site is much much larger).

Every debate we do, every controversial forum we make, gets them search ability, and acquires interest.

Freeman made a Topic about this a month ago.

http://www.debate.org...

There are advertisements, I've seen them before, but once I started using adblock I don't anymore.

Interesting. Thanks.

I agree with bladerunner, but will go a step further:

At 7/2/2013 10:14:49 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
As such, the benefits they get are incidental. Bearing in mind the costs to run and manage the site (and to update it, regardless of your opinion on their updates), they probably already share 100% of their direct profits with us. Which is to say: 100% of $0.

It's probably 0% of a loss, meaning that Juggle is already paying for us to participate.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2013 6:27:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Roy also made a really good post:

At 7/3/2013 10:47:02 AM, RoyLatham wrote:
Ads only appear if the site is viewed by someone who is not signed in as a member. I'm surprised that business plan is enough to keep it going, let alone make enough money to pay contributors. The supply of opinion writers is so much greater than demand, that there is plenty of content. People do get exposure in return for their efforts, and that seems adequate for most people.

The Huffington Post site is instructive. They do not pay their bloggers, and when the site was sold to AOL for lebbenty-lebben million billion dollars recently, the bloggers didn't get a piece of it. They do pay their editors and site staff. A Huff Post editor pointed out that people flock to provide content in return for the forum to be heard. http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I do share his surprise.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
TUF
Posts: 21,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2013 6:32:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
On that note, juggle has an affiliate site called "Write.com". You can actually make money by blogging on that site, though the approval wait time is about a month. I finally got approved, but lost interest by the time it happened lol.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2013 6:48:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 6:32:07 PM, TUF wrote:
On that note, juggle has an affiliate site called "Write.com". You can actually make money by blogging on that site, though the approval wait time is about a month. I finally got approved, but lost interest by the time it happened lol.

lol

I think this website concept has a lot of potential if they are able to monetize the venue. Through monetization, it would compel adherence to the TOS, which would lead to more constructive dialogue, which would lead to further monetization, etc, positive feedback loop.

Without monetization, there's simply no incentive for Juggle or for this website to care about the TOS...if someone goes off the deep end and starts ranting about someone's genitals for a couple hours, is the receiving end of that going to sue? Of course not...there would be no damages involved. So, without monetization, this site can't cultivate constructive dialogue, which would further the descent into talking about one's bowel movements, etc, negative feedback loop.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
TUF
Posts: 21,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/10/2013 6:52:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 6:48:44 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 8/10/2013 6:32:07 PM, TUF wrote:
On that note, juggle has an affiliate site called "Write.com". You can actually make money by blogging on that site, though the approval wait time is about a month. I finally got approved, but lost interest by the time it happened lol.

lol

I think this website concept has a lot of potential if they are able to monetize the venue. Through monetization, it would compel adherence to the TOS, which would lead to more constructive dialogue, which would lead to further monetization, etc, positive feedback loop.

Without monetization, there's simply no incentive for Juggle or for this website to care about the TOS...if someone goes off the deep end and starts ranting about someone's genitals for a couple hours, is the receiving end of that going to sue? Of course not...there would be no damages involved. So, without monetization, this site can't cultivate constructive dialogue, which would further the descent into talking about one's bowel movements, etc, negative feedback loop.

True lol. There is an inherent setback in trusting strangers on the internet. God knows what Imabench would write if he were approved.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
rross
Posts: 2,772
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 1:40:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
bladerunner060 wrote:
"I think you overestimate the revenue generation of the site. I believe they keep it as a "portfolio" piece, to both showcase their site-construction abilities, and to show themselves as a company which produces worthwhile things."

http://www.debate.org...

So we can conclude (from the way people online and views per debate are worked) that Juggle wants a lot of site traffic. But what else do they want? Do they want to showcase a particular kind of conversation, debate, demographic, interaction? What exactly is it that they're showing customers?

Just interested.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 6:04:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I guess I assumed this was more of a non-profit type thing that they can use to offset profits/tax liability.
My work here is, finally, done.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 6:12:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
DDO is like a glass room with a bunch of people arguing with ads posted up on the outside of the walls so that only onlookers can see them as they watch us.

We're animals in a Zoo.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 8:26:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 6:08:01 PM, TUF wrote:
The amount of traffic they get, IE views etc. Also this is a content based website, sort of like many popular blogs (though this site is much much larger).

Every debate we do, every controversial forum we make, gets them search ability, and acquires interest.

Freeman made a Topic about this a month ago.

http://www.debate.org...

There are advertisements, I've seen them before, but once I started using adblock I don't anymore.

This... The product they sell to members, is a platform in which to debate. The product in which they earn revenue is advertisements. You don't need to increase the volume of ads to increase revenue (it could actually hurt revenue), you just need to increase the traffic.

When I do a google search for one of my many interests, my debates or DDO forum posts are usually on the first page. This goes for google images as well. This could be due to 1 of 2 reasons;
1.) the debates get allot of traffic
2.) the debates are more relevant to the search, due to the uniqueness of the topic

Either way, it increases traffic to DDO.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
TUF
Posts: 21,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 9:19:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 8:26:16 AM, DanT wrote:
2.) the debates are more relevant to the search, due to the uniqueness of the topic

Either way, it increases traffic to DDO.

These debates here get a lot of searchability. Some debates on bigger issues get thousands of views. Anything that mentions gay marriage, Justin Bieber, my little ponies, etc, get lots of views. Things that people just google every day lol
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 9:46:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 8:26:16 AM, DanT wrote:
At 8/10/2013 6:08:01 PM, TUF wrote:
The amount of traffic they get, IE views etc. Also this is a content based website, sort of like many popular blogs (though this site is much much larger).

Every debate we do, every controversial forum we make, gets them search ability, and acquires interest.

Freeman made a Topic about this a month ago.

http://www.debate.org...

There are advertisements, I've seen them before, but once I started using adblock I don't anymore.

This... The product they sell to members, is a platform in which to debate. The product in which they earn revenue is advertisements. You don't need to increase the volume of ads to increase revenue (it could actually hurt revenue), you just need to increase the traffic.

When I do a google search for one of my many interests, my debates or DDO forum posts are usually on the first page. This goes for google images as well. This could be due to 1 of 2 reasons;
1.) the debates get allot of traffic
2.) the debates are more relevant to the search, due to the uniqueness of the topic

Either way, it increases traffic to DDO.

That could also be partly due to automatic personalization/filtering. For example, google knows what you like searching, and will personalize the search results based on your history. You get on DDO a lot, so it makes DDO pop up in your searches. Before I got on DDO, it never showed up in my searches.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 10:48:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 1:40:51 AM, rross wrote:
bladerunner060 wrote:
"I think you overestimate the revenue generation of the site. I believe they keep it as a "portfolio" piece, to both showcase their site-construction abilities, and to show themselves as a company which produces worthwhile things."

http://www.debate.org...

So we can conclude (from the way people online and views per debate are worked) that Juggle wants a lot of site traffic. But what else do they want? Do they want to showcase a particular kind of conversation, debate, demographic, interaction? What exactly is it that they're showing customers?

Personally, I think Juggle would be open to showcasing the conversations that are most profitable for them. If that happened to be whether or not kittens are the cutest things in the world, great for Juggle. If it happened to be a discussion on world peace with a bunch of luminaries making guest appearances, great for Juggle. Profitability = great for Juggle.

Just interested.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 10:50:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 6:04:52 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I guess I assumed this was more of a non-profit type thing that they can use to offset profits/tax liability.

Can it be a non-profit though? I mean, Juggle is a for-profit company. I would think that if they wanted a non-profit, they'd have to set it up as a separate corporate entity (not a subsidiary) and then they could make donations to that non-profit corporate entity to offset tax liability.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 10:54:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 8:26:16 AM, DanT wrote:
At 8/10/2013 6:08:01 PM, TUF wrote:
The amount of traffic they get, IE views etc. Also this is a content based website, sort of like many popular blogs (though this site is much much larger).

Every debate we do, every controversial forum we make, gets them search ability, and acquires interest.

Freeman made a Topic about this a month ago.

http://www.debate.org...

There are advertisements, I've seen them before, but once I started using adblock I don't anymore.

This... The product they sell to members, is a platform in which to debate. The product in which they earn revenue is advertisements. You don't need to increase the volume of ads to increase revenue (it could actually hurt revenue), you just need to increase the traffic.

The problem with this is what Roy brought up...the ads only appear when you're not logged in. I tend to leave my computer on as long as possible and I typically just leave things running, so even if I'm not perusing DDO, I could be logged in for days if not weeks without ever seeing a single ad while on DDO.

I'm not sure you can say they're "selling" the debating platform to us. That would be like saying that Google is "selling" their search capabilities to us. Google sells ad space from search results, yes, but they have to "buy" the clicks and eyeballs that advertisers want by building an enticing search platform.

When I do a google search for one of my many interests, my debates or DDO forum posts are usually on the first page. This goes for google images as well. This could be due to 1 of 2 reasons;
1.) the debates get allot of traffic
2.) the debates are more relevant to the search, due to the uniqueness of the topic

Either way, it increases traffic to DDO.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 10:56:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 9:53:15 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Wait what: http://www.google.com...

That can't be right.

Why not? IMHO this venue is quite the eclectic experience. Reddit can be for anyone.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 10:57:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 9:46:20 AM, ClassicRobert wrote:
At 8/11/2013 8:26:16 AM, DanT wrote:

That could also be partly due to automatic personalization/filtering. For example, google knows what you like searching, and will personalize the search results based on your history. You get on DDO a lot, so it makes DDO pop up in your searches. Before I got on DDO, it never showed up in my searches.

Agree.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 11:05:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 10:56:46 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 8/11/2013 9:53:15 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Wait what: http://www.google.com...

That can't be right.

Why not? IMHO this venue is quite the eclectic experience. Reddit can be for anyone.

I meant that I'm surprised how popular DDO is.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 11:06:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 11:05:36 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 8/11/2013 10:56:46 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 8/11/2013 9:53:15 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Wait what: http://www.google.com...

That can't be right.

Why not? IMHO this venue is quite the eclectic experience. Reddit can be for anyone.

I meant that I'm surprised how popular DDO is.

eh? The red line is Reddit. It looks like for every 80 hits Reddit gets, DDO might get 5-10.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 11:07:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 11:06:53 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 8/11/2013 11:05:36 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 8/11/2013 10:56:46 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 8/11/2013 9:53:15 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Wait what: http://www.google.com...

That can't be right.

Why not? IMHO this venue is quite the eclectic experience. Reddit can be for anyone.

I meant that I'm surprised how popular DDO is.

eh? The red line is Reddit. It looks like for every 80 hits Reddit gets, DDO might get 5-10.

But it's Reddit.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 11:08:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 11:07:23 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 8/11/2013 11:06:53 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 8/11/2013 11:05:36 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 8/11/2013 10:56:46 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 8/11/2013 9:53:15 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Wait what: http://www.google.com...

That can't be right.

Why not? IMHO this venue is quite the eclectic experience. Reddit can be for anyone.

I meant that I'm surprised how popular DDO is.

eh? The red line is Reddit. It looks like for every 80 hits Reddit gets, DDO might get 5-10.

But it's Reddit.

Hmmm...this though is exceptionally interesting.

http://www.google.com...

"Debate" as a word is a lot more popular than the common abbreviation of the Wall Street Journal. And look at this one:

http://www.google.com...

It actually makes a dent compared to "cnn"
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 11:09:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You can see the spikes during the Presidential debates, when the search for the word "debate" outperforms "cnn".

That's crazy.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 11:12:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
lol

http://www.google.com...

=)
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 11:20:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh, I know why they debate.org is so close to reddit.com - those graphs are for searches, not websites visited. No one goes to reddit by typing 'reddit.com' because there's only one reddit. But that doesn't really explain why 'debate.org' would be so high, because DDO'ers search bars are customized to show debate.org when searching for 'debate.'
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 11:23:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 11:20:56 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Oh, I know why they debate.org is so close to reddit.com - those graphs are for searches, not websites visited. No one goes to reddit by typing 'reddit.com' because there's only one reddit. But that doesn't really explain why 'debate.org' would be so high, because DDO'ers search bars are customized to show debate.org when searching for 'debate.'

Maybe those count too?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,255
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 11:25:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 11:23:16 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 8/11/2013 11:20:56 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Oh, I know why they debate.org is so close to reddit.com - those graphs are for searches, not websites visited. No one goes to reddit by typing 'reddit.com' because there's only one reddit. But that doesn't really explain why 'debate.org' would be so high, because DDO'ers search bars are customized to show debate.org when searching for 'debate.'

Maybe those count too?

http://www.google.com...
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 12:30:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This site is probably just one of many sites on a conjoint server. When you have 50 websites on a single server, the costs to run it gets diluted a bit.
0x5f3759df
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/11/2013 1:05:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 10:50:04 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 8/11/2013 6:04:52 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I guess I assumed this was more of a non-profit type thing that they can use to offset profits/tax liability.

Can it be a non-profit though? I mean, Juggle is a for-profit company. I would think that if they wanted a non-profit, they'd have to set it up as a separate corporate entity (not a subsidiary) and then they could make donations to that non-profit corporate entity to offset tax liability.

To my understanding, a business can have a non-profit segment of their business.

I currently work for a company called KorPartners, which is a subsidary of KorTerra. However, KorPartners is still a business, but I work for the non-profit wing that operates Gopher State One Call (811 - call before you dig). But, not all of KorPartners is non-profit.
My work here is, finally, done.