Total Posts:8|Showing Posts:1-8
Jump to topic:

Is BoP on What's the Same or Different?

Daktoria
Posts: 497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2013 12:49:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sometimes when people debate, people want to assume that some things are the same or different by default, so it's the opposite side's job to prove the opposite.

Which way is this supposed to go? Are things the same until proven different, or different until proven the same?
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2013 1:04:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It depends on who makes the assertion. If you say "they are the same" or "they are different", then you have the BoP. If you say "they are not necessarily the same" or "they are not necessarily different", then your opponent has the BoP. But keep in mind that in many instances BoP can be shared.
0x5f3759df
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2013 1:24:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Plus BoP is not the only thing voted on, it's just a basic guideline. Strength of argument outside of that still very much matters.
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
Daktoria
Posts: 497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2013 4:15:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 1:04:50 PM, Bullish wrote:
It depends on who makes the assertion. If you say "they are the same" or "they are different", then you have the BoP. If you say "they are not necessarily the same" or "they are not necessarily different", then your opponent has the BoP. But keep in mind that in many instances BoP can be shared.

That's the problem. Neither side is saying much because they're both trying to avoid the BoP and provoke the other passive-aggressively, so the debate is rather empty and stupid. Instead, they've gotten into a BoP debate to determine what they would, could, or should say. A lot of it is becoming appeals to emotion as well from them trying to appeal to judges practical judgment.

I kind of want to give negative votes to both sides because it's just so dumb.
Bullish
Posts: 3,527
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2013 4:27:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 4:15:52 PM, Daktoria wrote:
At 8/24/2013 1:04:50 PM, Bullish wrote:
It depends on who makes the assertion. If you say "they are the same" or "they are different", then you have the BoP. If you say "they are not necessarily the same" or "they are not necessarily different", then your opponent has the BoP. But keep in mind that in many instances BoP can be shared.

That's the problem. Neither side is saying much because they're both trying to avoid the BoP and provoke the other passive-aggressively, so the debate is rather empty and stupid. Instead, they've gotten into a BoP debate to determine what they would, could, or should say. A lot of it is becoming appeals to emotion as well from them trying to appeal to judges practical judgment.

I kind of want to give negative votes to both sides because it's just so dumb.

So basically they disagreed to agree. Ha.

Just don't vote. There isn't really a need to pay attention to these debates anyway. Click the "No" button on "Do you like this debate", trash both debaters in the comments, and move on.
0x5f3759df
rross
Posts: 2,772
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2013 7:27:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 12:49:32 PM, Daktoria wrote:
Sometimes when people debate, people want to assume that some things are the same or different by default, so it's the opposite side's job to prove the opposite.

Which way is this supposed to go? Are things the same until proven different, or different until proven the same?

Unless it's stated in round 1 or somewhere, I think things are the same until proven different, because it's much harder to prove that things are the same.

If you think that everything has limitless qualities, then if there are two things they will have differences, even if it's only their position in space or time. To prove that they are the same, you need to have a restricted range of qualities that are important. Again, unless it's set up in the framework of the debate somehow, it's much harder to prove that some quality doesn't matter than it is to prove that it does.

That's why, in my opinion, the null hypothesis (no difference, that nothing matters etc.) should be assumed unless proven otherwise.
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2013 8:47:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 4:27:28 PM, Bullish wrote:
Just don't vote. There isn't really a need to pay attention to these debates anyway. Click the "No" button on "Do you like this debate", trash both debaters in the comments, and move on.

I occasionally give neither side any points, and write "fail" in as the RFD on the vote. Which oddly once got requests for a CVB.
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2013 9:09:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/24/2013 12:49:32 PM, Daktoria wrote:
Sometimes when people debate, people want to assume that some things are the same or different by default, so it's the opposite side's job to prove the opposite.

Which way is this supposed to go? Are things the same until proven different, or different until proven the same?

Link?