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Noob Questions

Beverlee
Posts: 721
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9/5/2013 1:44:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I have a few questions

1. What is a Votebomb?
2. Are these real debates, or just chat rooms?
3. How do you debate if you don't want to start a new debate by yourself? Can you team debate?
4. What makes people hate you? What is considered good etiquette?
5. Can you start over with your debate if you screw up? What about changing your username. My user name had to be misspelled, and I would like it to be spelled correctly.

I want to try and help someone with a team debate or something first, before I try to figure it all out by doing it. I feel like I would bother people who already know what they are doing.

Thanks!
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
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9/5/2013 2:48:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'll try answer each of these questions as soon as I get the chance. But first I'd recommend checking out the site FAQ:

http://www.debate.org...

Welcome to the site.
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Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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9/5/2013 2:56:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not official answers to some...
1. A votebomb is an intentionally terrible vote, based not on the debate itself. They are deleted by admins.
2. These are not chat rooms, but the subjective nature of real makes this answer hard to define. (yeah we often actually debate stuff, it's just an online setup)
3.
4. People will hate you if you constantly act foolish, or needy, or make controversial statements but refuse to either back them up with evidence or accept debates related to them. Good etiquette is going polite, not intentionally breaking any rules, never forfeiting (a concession is a different matter, if losing a debate you can't turn around I suggest it).
5. I suggest not making new user names, better to stand by what you've done even if it has loses on that score.
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
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9/5/2013 3:00:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/5/2013 1:44:11 AM, Beverlee wrote:
I have a few questions


1. What is a Votebomb?

A vote displaying poor voting conduct that fails to justify any of the points awarded. I believe it used to generally refer to votes awarding 7 points with a minimum of explanation, though it has often been used to describe any vote that fails on any of the criteria for a proper vote.

In general, to place a proper vote it's worth keeping in mind that one should be thoughtful, objective, and explain every point they award.

2. Are these real debates, or just chat rooms?

Debates on DDO happen with a member accepting a debate in the challenge period or by creating their own. The participants then take turns each round submitting text, refuting their opponent's argument and making their own on a turn by turn basis.

3. How do you debate if you don't want to start a new debate by yourself? Can you team debate?

You can select to participate in any debate in the challenge period in the "Debates" drop down menu. Team debates are currently done in an informal (not coded into the site) but organized way and if you are interested in participating you can contact Bladerunner060, Rross, or myself.

4. What makes people hate you? What is considered good etiquette?

Be a generally decent person and no one will hate you.

5. Can you start over with your debate if you screw up? What about changing your username. My user name had to be misspelled, and I would like it to be spelled correctly.

Once a debate is started it can't be restarted unless both participants agree to it and contact me to have it deleted/reset. They can then start it over if they choose to.

You can change your username by deactivating your account first, then creating a new one.

I want to try and help someone with a team debate or something first, before I try to figure it all out by doing it. I feel like I would bother people who already know what they are doing.

Thanks!

Don't worry too much about messing up a debate. Just do your best and you'll find it's pretty simply and you'll get the hang of it quickly.

Welcome to DDO. Enjoy the site. Feel free to contact me via PM any time if you have any questions, comments, suggestions or need anything at all.
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RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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9/5/2013 2:53:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/5/2013 1:44:11 AM, Beverlee wrote:
3. How do you debate if you don't want to start a new debate by yourself? Can you team debate?

A real debate requires two sides and a set of rules to ensure systematic arguments and rebuttals. However, the Forums provide a place for free-form interaction. A new member might like to test the waters in a forum thread.

Also, you can contact experienced DDOers with specific questions about a debate, or to ask for a critique of a debate. I get such requests nearly every day.

4. What makes people hate you? What is considered good etiquette?

DDO is really good at teaching patience. There are always people acting out to draw attention to themselves. The basic rule of good etiquette is to attack a person's arguments without attacking the person himself. A person can be a complete fool about one thing and a sober expert on something else. American philosopher Larry the Cable Guy said, "People think us rednecks are stupid, until they need us to start their car."
Beverlee
Posts: 721
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9/7/2013 2:37:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/6/2013 4:18:25 PM, MassiveDump wrote:
This only goes to show that Juggle has succeeded in completely getting rid of the Debate section.

that sounds not-groovy. What do you mean?
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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9/7/2013 3:35:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/5/2013 1:44:11 AM, Beverlee wrote:
1. What is a Votebomb?

If you vote for Joe because you like him, or because you think he's on the right side, or because you dislike his opponent, or because he voted for you in another debate. Anything vote not based on Joe being the one who argued better is a vote bomb.

If he did argue better, and if you give him spelling or source or conduct points because he argued better, then that's still votebombing.

3. How do you debate if you don't want to start a new debate by yourself? Can you team debate?

Make it very clear in your OP (opening post) that the other person has the burden of proof, and the other person will argue first, and the other person will let you argue last. Be explicit. Leave no possibility of misunderstanding.

You may want to style yourself as Con and your opponent as Pro, depending on how the resolution is phrased.

4. What makes people hate you? What is considered good etiquette?

Votebombing. Rudeness. Forfeiting rounds. Plagiarism. Countervotebombing (don't counter a votebomb, just report it). Accepting a debate and then forfeiting or not being serious.

5. Can you start over with your debate if you screw up?

If it hasn't been accepted yet.

Even if it has been accepted, I've seen people tell the voters, "Don't vote on this debate. We're going to call this a draw and start over."

Thanks!

Welcome to DDO!
Beverlee
Posts: 721
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9/7/2013 3:42:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 3:35:49 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 9/5/2013 1:44:11 AM, Beverlee wrote:
1. What is a Votebomb?

If you vote for Joe because you like him, or because you think he's on the right side, or because you dislike his opponent, or because he voted for you in another debate. Anything vote not based on Joe being the one who argued better is a vote bomb.

If he did argue better, and if you give him spelling or source or conduct points because he argued better, then that's still votebombing.


3. How do you debate if you don't want to start a new debate by yourself? Can you team debate?

Make it very clear in your OP (opening post) that the other person has the burden of proof, and the other person will argue first, and the other person will let you argue last. Be explicit. Leave no possibility of misunderstanding.

You may want to style yourself as Con and your opponent as Pro, depending on how the resolution is phrased.



4. What makes people hate you? What is considered good etiquette?

Votebombing. Rudeness. Forfeiting rounds. Plagiarism. Countervotebombing (don't counter a votebomb, just report it). Accepting a debate and then forfeiting or not being serious.



5. Can you start over with your debate if you screw up?

If it hasn't been accepted yet.

Even if it has been accepted, I've seen people tell the voters, "Don't vote on this debate. We're going to call this a draw and start over."



Thanks!

Welcome to DDO!

This was very helpful!
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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9/7/2013 4:30:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 3:42:00 PM, Beverlee wrote:
At 9/7/2013 3:35:49 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 9/5/2013 1:44:11 AM, Beverlee wrote:
1. What is a Votebomb?

If you vote for Joe because you like him, or because you think he's on the right side, or because you dislike his opponent, or because he voted for you in another debate. Anything vote not based on Joe being the one who argued better is a vote bomb.

If he did argue better, and if you give him spelling or source or conduct points because he argued better, then that's still votebombing.


3. How do you debate if you don't want to start a new debate by yourself? Can you team debate?

Make it very clear in your OP (opening post) that the other person has the burden of proof, and the other person will argue first, and the other person will let you argue last. Be explicit. Leave no possibility of misunderstanding.

You may want to style yourself as Con and your opponent as Pro, depending on how the resolution is phrased.



4. What makes people hate you? What is considered good etiquette?

Votebombing. Rudeness. Forfeiting rounds. Plagiarism. Countervotebombing (don't counter a votebomb, just report it). Accepting a debate and then forfeiting or not being serious.



5. Can you start over with your debate if you screw up?

If it hasn't been accepted yet.

Even if it has been accepted, I've seen people tell the voters, "Don't vote on this debate. We're going to call this a draw and start over."


It should be added that you need to coordinate the draw with your opponent prior to posting that. The opponent doesn't have to accept it, it's just generally good etiquette to do so.



Thanks!

Welcome to DDO!

This was very helpful!
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

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MassiveDump
Posts: 3,423
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9/7/2013 11:05:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 2:37:20 PM, Beverlee wrote:
At 9/6/2013 4:18:25 PM, MassiveDump wrote:
This only goes to show that Juggle has succeeded in completely getting rid of the Debate section.

that sounds not-groovy. What do you mean?

This site used to really emphasize debates. Lately they made an effort to put the Opinions section in front of debates on this site, and I can only assume the Poll section is another attempt at the same objective.
Beverlee
Posts: 721
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9/8/2013 12:11:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/7/2013 11:05:10 PM, MassiveDump wrote:
At 9/7/2013 2:37:20 PM, Beverlee wrote:
At 9/6/2013 4:18:25 PM, MassiveDump wrote:
This only goes to show that Juggle has succeeded in completely getting rid of the Debate section.

that sounds not-groovy. What do you mean?

This site used to really emphasize debates. Lately they made an effort to put the Opinions section in front of debates on this site, and I can only assume the Poll section is another attempt at the same objective.

I am super confused/intimidated by the debates part. I did one the other day, just to break the ice. I didn't care if I "won" or whatever, so I really didn't take it seriously, like it wouldn't count, sort of. But, when it was over, I felt so... evaluated. I used to debate in High School, but there we just got grades on the arguments only - it wasn't very personal. We had judges, or sometimes we used a big audience of like 20 kids to score them. This is just whoever shows up, so it seems like vote-trading and back-scratching might be a thing. I wish they just had judges to score the debates.
MassiveDump
Posts: 3,423
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9/8/2013 8:24:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 12:11:03 AM, Beverlee wrote:
At 9/7/2013 11:05:10 PM, MassiveDump wrote:
At 9/7/2013 2:37:20 PM, Beverlee wrote:
At 9/6/2013 4:18:25 PM, MassiveDump wrote:
This only goes to show that Juggle has succeeded in completely getting rid of the Debate section.

that sounds not-groovy. What do you mean?

This site used to really emphasize debates. Lately they made an effort to put the Opinions section in front of debates on this site, and I can only assume the Poll section is another attempt at the same objective.

I am super confused/intimidated by the debates part. I did one the other day, just to break the ice. I didn't care if I "won" or whatever, so I really didn't take it seriously, like it wouldn't count, sort of. But, when it was over, I felt so... evaluated. I used to debate in High School, but there we just got grades on the arguments only - it wasn't very personal. We had judges, or sometimes we used a big audience of like 20 kids to score them. This is just whoever shows up, so it seems like vote-trading and back-scratching might be a thing. I wish they just had judges to score the debates.

If someone votes for any reason but arguments, you can report the vote. It'd be nice to have judges, but right now the admins are clearly more focused on turning the site orange and making a poll section.
rajun
Posts: 346
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9/8/2013 9:04:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 8:24:35 AM, MassiveDump wrote:
At 9/8/2013 12:11:03 AM, Beverlee wrote:
At 9/7/2013 11:05:10 PM, MassiveDump wrote:
At 9/7/2013 2:37:20 PM, Beverlee wrote:
At 9/6/2013 4:18:25 PM, MassiveDump wrote:
This only goes to show that Juggle has succeeded in completely getting rid of the Debate section.

that sounds not-groovy. What do you mean?

This site used to really emphasize debates. Lately they made an effort to put the Opinions section in front of debates on this site, and I can only assume the Poll section is another attempt at the same objective.

I am super confused/intimidated by the debates part. I did one the other day, just to break the ice. I didn't care if I "won" or whatever, so I really didn't take it seriously, like it wouldn't count, sort of. But, when it was over, I felt so... evaluated. I used to debate in High School, but there we just got grades on the arguments only - it wasn't very personal. We had judges, or sometimes we used a big audience of like 20 kids to score them. This is just whoever shows up, so it seems like vote-trading and back-scratching might be a thing. I wish they just had judges to score the debates.

If someone votes for any reason but arguments, you can report the vote. It'd be nice to have judges, but right now the admins are clearly more focused on turning the site orange and making a poll section.

No..Judges won't be a better Idea... More bias...
Only cool guys can see this....
rajun
Posts: 346
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9/8/2013 9:04:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 8:24:35 AM, MassiveDump wrote:
At 9/8/2013 12:11:03 AM, Beverlee wrote:
At 9/7/2013 11:05:10 PM, MassiveDump wrote:
At 9/7/2013 2:37:20 PM, Beverlee wrote:
At 9/6/2013 4:18:25 PM, MassiveDump wrote:
This only goes to show that Juggle has succeeded in completely getting rid of the Debate section.

that sounds not-groovy. What do you mean?

This site used to really emphasize debates. Lately they made an effort to put the Opinions section in front of debates on this site, and I can only assume the Poll section is another attempt at the same objective.

I am super confused/intimidated by the debates part. I did one the other day, just to break the ice. I didn't care if I "won" or whatever, so I really didn't take it seriously, like it wouldn't count, sort of. But, when it was over, I felt so... evaluated. I used to debate in High School, but there we just got grades on the arguments only - it wasn't very personal. We had judges, or sometimes we used a big audience of like 20 kids to score them. This is just whoever shows up, so it seems like vote-trading and back-scratching might be a thing. I wish they just had judges to score the debates.

If someone votes for any reason but arguments, you can report the vote. It'd be nice to have judges, but right now the admins are clearly more focused on turning the site orange and making a poll section.

And yeah,,, I almost forgot to LOL on this :but right now the admins are clearly more focused on turning the site orange and making a poll section.//\\

LOL
Only cool guys can see this....
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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9/8/2013 9:32:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You asked what you can do to keep people from hating you. I have a couple of tips that aren't quite relevant. That is, nobody will hate you for not doing them, but they're still useful; you can still improve other people's experience of the web site by using them.

1. Use informative thread titles. "Noob Questions" was good, because we knew about what we were going to find when we clicked into the thread. But many people write totally obscure things that give no clue.

The worst ones have an uninformative title, and when you click through you find an uninformative link. To find out what the thread is about you have to click though a second time.

2. Don't quote a whole post to respond to one line. Edit away all the parts you aren't responding to.
rajun
Posts: 346
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9/8/2013 9:44:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 9:32:03 AM, wiploc wrote:

2. Don't quote a whole post to respond to one line. Edit away all the parts you aren't responding to.

Hmmm... Advice taken!
Only cool guys can see this....
Beverlee
Posts: 721
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9/8/2013 8:57:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/8/2013 9:32:03 AM, wiploc wrote:

2. Don't quote a whole post to respond to one line. Edit away all the parts you aren't responding to.

Groovy!
lannan13
Posts: 23,062
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9/10/2013 4:03:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/5/2013 2:48:29 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
I'll try answer each of these questions as soon as I get the chance. But first I'd recommend checking out the site FAQ:

http://www.debate.org...

Welcome to the site.
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"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Beverlee
Posts: 721
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9/15/2013 4:03:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
More Noob Questions:

1. What are some of the games and ongoing projects at DDO? I see the Walking Dead, The Weekly Stupid, and Mafia.

2. Are there any "test-Question" level vocabulary words that we need to know besides "DDO?" Such as "WS?"

3. Is there an "Adopt a Noob" program, where a willing (and patient) experienced debater can guide noobs for a few weeks? (I saw something to this effect in a forum post, and thought it was cool. But it was only for a game, I think Mafia.)
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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9/15/2013 8:01:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/15/2013 4:03:30 PM, Beverlee wrote:
2. Are there any "test-Question" level vocabulary words

You understand burden of proof?

A lot of people seem to have trouble with the concept of plagiarism.
Beverlee
Posts: 721
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9/15/2013 8:11:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/15/2013 8:01:49 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 9/15/2013 4:03:30 PM, Beverlee wrote:
2. Are there any "test-Question" level vocabulary words

You understand burden of proof?

A lot of people seem to have trouble with the concept of plagiarism.

How are people busted for plagiarism? Thanks for the reminder about burden of proof!
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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9/15/2013 10:23:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/15/2013 4:03:30 PM, Beverlee wrote:
More Noob Questions:

1. What are some of the games and ongoing projects at DDO? I see the Walking Dead, The Weekly Stupid, and Mafia.

The Weekly Stupid is not a game you want to be invited to...

2. Are there any "test-Question" level vocabulary words that we need to know besides "DDO?" Such as "WS?"

WS is Weekly Stupid. Here are 2 more... BOP: Burden of Proof. RFD: Reason for Decision. (why you voted the way you did.)

http://www.debate.org...

3. Is there an "Adopt a Noob" program, where a willing (and patient) experienced debater can guide noobs for a few weeks? (I saw something to this effect in a forum post, and thought it was cool. But it was only for a game, I think Mafia.)

I can help you out if you want. I'm not Roylatham or Wrichcirw level, but I'd like to help someone help.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

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donald.keller
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9/15/2013 10:23:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/15/2013 8:01:49 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 9/15/2013 4:03:30 PM, Beverlee wrote:
2. Are there any "test-Question" level vocabulary words

You understand burden of proof?

A lot of people seem to have trouble with the concept of plagiarism.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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9/15/2013 10:24:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh! And some advice... Don't make too many threads at once. Imabench doesn't like that lol.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

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wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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9/15/2013 10:48:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/15/2013 8:11:21 PM, Beverlee wrote:
At 9/15/2013 8:01:49 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 9/15/2013 4:03:30 PM, Beverlee wrote:
How are people busted for plagiarism?

If you quote somebody, you need to make it perfectly clear that you are using someone else's words. Don't just cite your source. If you just cite the source (without using quotation marks, or otherwise making it clear that you are quoting) then you are representing that you got ideas from the cited source but used your own words.

Thanks for the reminder about burden of proof!

This is another place where you want to be perfectly clear. If you initiate a debate, and you don't want the burden of proof, then you should say so explicitly. "Con has the burden of proof," is explicit, as is, "The burden of proof is shared."

If you aren't clear about who has the burden, then that often becomes the primary subject of the debate, leaving little room to discuss the resolution.

Oh, and it's best if the resolution is a simple affirmative statement. "Resolved: Red marbles are prettier than blue marbles." That way, you don't have to give waste time debating what the debate is about.
wiploc
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9/15/2013 10:51:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/15/2013 10:23:27 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 9/15/2013 8:01:49 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 9/15/2013 4:03:30 PM, Beverlee wrote:
2. Are there any "test-Question" level vocabulary words

You understand burden of proof?

A lot of people seem to have trouble with the concept of plagiarism.

You'll see a lot of posts like this one that quote a post without adding to it. I've never seen it anywhere else. It's a way of expressing agreement with the reproduced post.

You can also put "+1" or "^This."
wiploc
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9/15/2013 11:01:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Go to the debate challenges area.

Click into one of the debate challenges.

Click on "Accept the Debate."

See what's choices the instigator made.

Then click your back button or the cancel button, so as to get out of there. There is comfort in proving to yourself that you can go that far without having to accept the debate.