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The ideal president

TUF
Posts: 21,310
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12/7/2013 9:34:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Some members have already given feedback on what they feel the ideal candidate can do for them and Debate.org. However, some have voiced negatives about me and my platform still. I don't think this presidency should be about me, or the things in my platform specifically, as the ultimate goal is for it to center around the community. So I was wondering if I could get some direct feedback as to what most members are interested in seeing in their president, so I can try to best adjust my platform to meet such needs. If you have the time, please leave your thoughts on this subject. Thank you!
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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12/7/2013 9:39:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/7/2013 9:34:50 PM, TUF wrote:
Some members have already given feedback on what they feel the ideal candidate can do for them and Debate.org. However, some have voiced negatives about me and my platform still. I don't think this presidency should be about me, or the things in my platform specifically, as the ultimate goal is for it to center around the community. So I was wondering if I could get some direct feedback as to what most members are interested in seeing in their president,

For starters, someone who doesnt have an extensive history of trolling the living sh** out of people

Trust me on this one

so I can try to best adjust my platform to meet such needs. If you have the time, please leave your thoughts on this subject. Thank you!
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

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VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
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12/7/2013 9:58:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/7/2013 9:34:50 PM, TUF wrote:
Some members have already given feedback on what they feel the ideal candidate can do for them and Debate.org. However, some have voiced negatives about me and my platform still. I don't think this presidency should be about me, or the things in my platform specifically, as the ultimate goal is for it to center around the community. So I was wondering if I could get some direct feedback as to what most members are interested in seeing in their president, so I can try to best adjust my platform to meet such needs. If you have the time, please leave your thoughts on this subject. Thank you!

TUF, Congratulations. You'll make a great president.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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12/7/2013 11:22:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/7/2013 9:34:50 PM, TUF wrote:
Some members have already given feedback on what they feel the ideal candidate can do for them and Debate.org. However, some have voiced negatives about me and my platform still. I don't think this presidency should be about me,

It's absolutely about you. Your judgement in dealing with Juggle will literally be the most powerful influence from the community in determining what Juggle does next in relation to the community. Your platform, if anything, is secondary to your judgement and personality because Juggle at the day's end has the absolute final word. So, yes, it can, is, should be and ought to be principally about you.

or the things in my platform specifically,

Well, of course it's about that -but those are secondary to your personality, though the DDO presidency is special in that case. Their primary value of a candidate's platform, in reality, is no more than as a litmus of the extent to which they understand the community they aspire to represent.

as the ultimate goal is for it to center around the community.

So, the two things that most fundamentally dictate the fate of the community (who you are insofar as that indicates your judgement and your platform insofar as that reflects your understating of the community) are secondary because the ultimate goal is centered around the community? That's like saying you can't have (A-I) or (A-II) because you must have (A) where (I) and (II) are both components of (A).

So I was wondering if I could get some direct feedback as to what most members are interested in seeing in their president, so I can try to best adjust my platform to meet such needs.

I made a thread about that.

If you have the time, please leave your thoughts on this subject. Thank you!

Sure.
Tsar of DDO
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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12/8/2013 8:15:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/7/2013 11:22:13 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/7/2013 9:34:50 PM, TUF wrote:
Some members have already given feedback on what they feel the ideal candidate can do for them and Debate.org. However, some have voiced negatives about me and my platform still. I don't think this presidency should be about me,

It's absolutely about you. Your judgement in dealing with Juggle will literally be the most powerful influence from the community in determining what Juggle does next in relation to the community. Your platform, if anything, is secondary to your judgement and personality because Juggle at the day's end has the absolute final word. So, yes, it can, is, should be and ought to be principally about you.

You are right, and wrong. This election is about being better for the community. I am applying to be the vessel to make that happen, and to best fit that role, I need to base what I do off of the user base rather than my own needs. I don't think my judgement skills in making decisions for the community are even applicable in this forum, because how I make decisions in accomplishing things is entirely different from gaining knowledge of what those things are in the first place.

or the things in my platform specifically,

Well, of course it's about that -but those are secondary to your personality, though the DDO presidency is special in that case. Their primary value of a candidate's platform, in reality, is no more than as a litmus of the extent to which they understand the community they aspire to represent.

I do believe I have a grasp on what most of the community is wanting. However it is a very diverse community and everyone has different ideas of how to make it work best. Do you not think it is best to try to find a working solution for the majority rather than simply supporting the ideals of a few?

as the ultimate goal is for it to center around the community.

So, the two things that most fundamentally dictate the fate of the community (who you are insofar as that indicates your judgement and your platform insofar as that reflects your understating of the community) are secondary because the ultimate goal is centered around the community? That's like saying you can't have (A-I) or (A-II) because you must have (A) where (I) and (II) are both components of (A).

What is the point of trying to work with juggle based on your own assessment? Airmaxs platform in the election had plenty of stuff that obviously didn't work with juggles own immediate goals, otherwise we would have seen some changes around here. It is entirely possible to work in multiple solutions to a single problem with different outcomes. If you don't agree I am happy to prove you wrong. If their is one thing I can take from airmaxs presidency, it is definitely his consideration of all sides, and thinking of the best possible route to go about every task.

Thankyou for your feedback.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
YYW
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12/8/2013 9:07:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/8/2013 8:15:35 AM, TUF wrote:
At 12/7/2013 11:22:13 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/7/2013 9:34:50 PM, TUF wrote:
Some members have already given feedback on what they feel the ideal candidate can do for them and Debate.org. However, some have voiced negatives about me and my platform still. I don't think this presidency should be about me,

It's absolutely about you. Your judgement in dealing with Juggle will literally be the most powerful influence from the community in determining what Juggle does next in relation to the community. Your platform, if anything, is secondary to your judgement and personality because Juggle at the day's end has the absolute final word. So, yes, it can, is, should be and ought to be principally about you.

You are right, and wrong.

Ok, so we're at least making progress in that while you've already admitted you've made a mistake in saying this is "not about you" you're still trepidatious about realizing the gravity of the office you seek.

This election is about being better for the community.

So, since you might have missed it, let's mention it once more. This election, in that you are running and especially if you get elected is absolutely about you. Your judgement in dealing with Juggle will literally be the most powerful influence from the community in determining what Juggle does next in relation to the community. Your platform, if anything, is secondary to your judgement and personality because Juggle at the day's end has the absolute final word. So, yes, it can, is, should be and ought to be principally about you. It is about you because of the role that you aspire to occupy, and what impact your occupying that role will have on the community.

I am applying to be the vessel to make that happen, and to best fit that role, I need to base what I do off of the user base rather than my own needs.

At no point did I talk about your needs. Your needs (at least in a general sense) are beyond the scope of what I was taking about, and recognize -as I think you fail to now- that your general needs are distinct of your personality, and who you are. Your emotional needs, like the desire to be liked or appreciated, however, are very much at stake if your emotional needs would come into conflict with your serving as president because the tension between what you want -i.e. to be liked and appreciated by the community- and the reality of what the job as president will do -i.e. put you in tension between the community and juggle- will result in a considerable degree of strain on both the extent to which you are liked or appreciated.

I don't think my judgement skills in making decisions for the community are even applicable in this forum, because how I make decisions in accomplishing things is entirely different from gaining knowledge of what those things are in the first place.

That is one of the most patently ignorant things I have ever heard you say, TUF. It's like you're arguing with me just to argue. YOUR JUDGEMENT IS THE SOLE FACTOR WHICH WILL HAVE THE MOST IMPACT ON HOW YOU RUN, and for the very reason that you can't see that is the reason that I can and will not support you for the election. It's because you have literally no idea what you're getting into at best, or are just willfully obfuscating to safe face at worse that makes me so highly trepidatious to see you in office.

or the things in my platform specifically,

Well, of course it's about that -but those are secondary to your personality, though the DDO presidency is special in that case. Their primary value of a candidate's platform, in reality, is no more than as a litmus of the extent to which they understand the community they aspire to represent.

I do believe I have a grasp on what most of the community is wanting.

Lovely.

However it is a very diverse community and everyone has different ideas of how to make it work best.

That is lovely too, but irrelevant to what I said. I'm talking about what a platform does for a candidate, and what value it serves in a campaign. You're talking about the extent to which the community is "diverse" which -while true- is beyond the scope of the discussion.

Do you not think it is best to try to find a working solution for the majority rather than simply supporting the ideals of a few?

I think you either don't understand what I said, or are intentionally trying to change the subject because it's inconvenient for you. So, let me refocus: this election is of course about your platform -but your platform is secondary to your personality because the primary value of a candidate's platform, in reality, is no more than as a litmus of the extent to which they understand the community they aspire to represent.

as the ultimate goal is for it to center around the community.

So, the two things that most fundamentally dictate the fate of the community (who you are insofar as that indicates your judgement and your platform insofar as that reflects your understating of the community) are secondary because the ultimate goal is centered around the community? That's like saying you can't have (A-I) or (A-II) because you must have (A) where (I) and (II) are both components of (A).

What is the point of trying to work with juggle based on your own assessment?

Your question is half stupid, half not. It's half stupid because it's asking for a subjective account of what presidents "do" in relation to juggle, it's only half stupid because the subjectivity inherent in your phraseology is easily dismissible. So, it's very simple: A DDO president works with Juggle to represent the interests of the DDO community. That's not just my own assessment, either. It's the literal reason that presidents are elected.

Airmaxs platform in the election had plenty of stuff that obviously didn't work with juggles own immediate goals, otherwise we would have seen some changes around here.

Again, irrelevant. Why? The platform's value is less about what the president wants to accomplish, and more about understanding the community. By writing a platform that appeals to people, the candidate indicates that they "get" what the community wants. And, you might win on your platform given Cody's nearly complete lack of one. But, your platform is something I'm less concerned about than other things.

It is entirely possible to work in multiple solutions to a single problem with different outcomes.

Again, irrelevant. And, even if that were true, to work on multiple solutions under your administration would require an exercise of your judgement -which you've already said doesn't apply. So, once more, my doubts about your capability to be present are only amplified.

If you don't agree I am happy to prove you wrong.

If there is one thing I am certain of, it is that in no way will you be able to accomplish that feat.

If their is one thing I can take from airmaxs presidency, it is definitely his consideration of all sides, and thinking of the best possible route to go about every task.

You are not Arimax, and you will not lead the way Airmax does because you are two totally different people, with totally different ideals and principles. There are very practical reasons that Airmax hears out both sides -reasons that I don't always find myself in agreement with, but reasons which have more to deal with conflict resolution than site improvement -meaning that your point is precariously close to being irrelevant. And, he want's to give people a chance to feel like they've contributed to the decision making process. But, once more, this election is about you, not Airmax, even though I would be more likely to write his name in -despite the fact that he is not running- than vote for any other candidate running now.
Tsar of DDO
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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12/8/2013 11:33:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think the real question for you would be, why do you want to be president?

The best president would understand that the job is purely a service position, and not an ego feeding role. Few people would actually want to do what is required of a good president, because it's tedious and has so little recompense.

So, why do you want to be president? Why would you want to take on the work that a good president would do?
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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12/8/2013 11:39:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Stop. Breathe. Re read the conversation. I have 3 times at this point. Before I waste time contuining, please tell me where exactly our disagreement is and be VERY specific. Not only do I agree with most of what your are arguing here, but I am scratching my head trying to find the connection of where you think I made certain arguments.

I am left completely confused at to your motivations. I am reading a bunch of capitalized letters, emphasized statements, and passionate words all saying... exactly the same thing I have been saying, maybe better worded.

I am left with the repeated statement that you don't think I have the traits to do what I say I can, or the duty you believe is required be president. But you keep avoiding the most important part of that, my which is explaining why. Lets cut to the chase and stop playing guessing games. Based on your very limited experience of me, why do you think I cannot?
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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12/8/2013 11:51:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/8/2013 11:39:47 AM, TUF wrote:
Stop. Breathe. Re read the conversation. I have 3 times at this point. Before I waste time contuining, please tell me where exactly our disagreement is and be VERY specific.

Being patronizing and condescending isn't going to win you any points with me, and i've already been explicitly clear with you. Believe it or not, the reason that I wrote in all capital letters is for emphasis so that you would not pay attention, not because I'm yelling. But, given that you clearly lack the ability to decipher tones or interpret motives behind textual communication, as you have repeatedly demonstrated over and again, it is not surprising that you wrote what you just did.

Not only do I agree with most of what your are arguing here, but I am scratching my head trying to find the connection of where you think I made certain arguments.

TUF, this is the point where I just flat out say the following: you're talking out of both sides of your mouth right now.

I am left completely confused at to your motivations.

Obviously. First, you thought this was a personal attack against you. Then, you thought I was just being difficult. Now, you're perplexed because you cannot understand that I truly and sincerely believe that you are not a good fit for president. It's not personal, it never was.

I am reading a bunch of capitalized letters, emphasized statements, and passionate words all saying... exactly the same thing I have been saying, maybe better worded.

So, I'm thinking that you don't understand what I said, then, because you can't see the distinction.

I am left with the repeated statement that you don't think I have the traits to do what I say I can, or the duty you believe is required be president.

Incorrect. I believe that your personality is not conducive to being president and that your understanding of what the president actually does is fundamentally misguided.

But you keep avoiding the most important part of that, my which is explaining why.

I have explained why ad nauseum. Your willful disregarding or failure to understand what I'm saying does not mean that I have insufficiently explained my perspective. I think there are others who agree with me as well. They're just too polite to say so.

Lets cut to the chase and stop playing guessing games. Based on your very limited experience of me, why do you think I cannot?

Do you realize what it means that you have asked that question, in the context of everything that I've said?
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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12/8/2013 11:52:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/8/2013 11:33:13 AM, innomen wrote:
The best president would understand that the job is purely a service position, and not an ego feeding role. Few people would actually want to do what is required of a good president, because it's tedious and has so little recompense.

Words that should be cast in bronze.
Tsar of DDO
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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12/8/2013 11:55:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Someone who will get rid of the stupid coding we currently have when making our posts and add a few html tags already. I want to be able to use <sup></sup>, <i></i>, <b></b>, et cetera.

Or better yet? BBCode. Which has coding for footnotes.
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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12/8/2013 12:21:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/8/2013 11:52:15 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/8/2013 11:33:13 AM, innomen wrote:
The best president would understand that the job is purely a service position, and not an ego feeding role. Few people would actually want to do what is required of a good president, because it's tedious and has so little recompense.

Words that should be cast in bronze.

Power is best given to reluctant leaders, but let's put something into perspective.

Airmax is not running. The position WILL be filled and even if you don't support any of the candidates, a spirit of indifference will prove folly. This election is supposed to reveal the character of the people running and I think the dirty laundry has been aired out with extreme prejudice.
None of the candidates are perfect, and we need to stop trying to compare them to Airmax. We are looking for a mirror image replacement for Airmax because we have become complacent with his style of leadership. The only person who can moderate like Airmax is Airmax. Since he's not running, let's be a bit more intelligent about how we judge the candidates.

We shouldn't expect perfection. We should expect:

1.> Approachability - Can we bring an issue to them, regardless of how trivial it is and get the sense that they care about our concerns. Sometimes it helps to simply be acknowledged, even if a solution cannot be provided. (Some problems must simply run their course).
I am afraid that some people who run for this office would assume an attitude of: "This is beneath me. Handle it yourself." I don't get that vibe from TUF on any level. The guy is approachable just like Airmax and that is by far the most important character quality I want in a President here.

2.> Proactivity - Will the candidate actually follow through on their campaign promises? TUF and ClassicRobert are working t improve the site regardless of their position in office. That shows me that the "title" is a formality. Their desire to serve the community is intrinsic to their character.

3.>Integrity - The candidate must embody certain core values. They should not be able to be bribed, manipulated or intimidated. TUF serves in the Armed Forces. He literally serves the country in a capacity that demands the very core values we need in a President. That means he doesn't need to learn these traits on the job...he already has them and proficiently can use them to be a steadfast and fair moderator. The level of maturity a service member would bring to this office is unmatched by any other candidate.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
TUF
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12/8/2013 12:49:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/8/2013 9:07:14 AM, YYW wrote:
Ok, so we're at least making progress in that while you've already admitted you've made a mistake in saying this is "not about you" you're still trepidatious about realizing the gravity of the office you seek.

Explain how I don't have such a grasp.

So, since you might have missed it, let's mention it once more. This election, in that you are running and especially if you get elected is absolutely about you.

You repeat the same process, but disagree with the wording of the result. That is where our problems lie.

Your judgement in dealing with Juggle will literally be the most powerful influence from the community in determining what Juggle does next in relation to the community.

I agree to an extent, however juggle is not needed to make a difference. Juggle is important specific to getting approval in making changes that I do not have power over. Presidency isn't all about having that power but I agree maintaining communication and relationships with juggle is important. Again over all being an advocate for the users should be more important as I am not a mod, as airmax is.

Your platform, if anything, is secondary to your judgement and personality

Agreed.

because Juggle at the day's end has the absolute final word.

To the extent mentioned earlier, yes.

So, yes, it can, is, should be and ought to be principally about you. It is about you because of the role that you aspire to occupy, and what impact your occupying that role will have on the community.

Agreed.

At no point did I talk about your needs. Your needs (at least in a general sense) are beyond the scope of what I was taking about, and recognize -as I think you fail to now- that your general needs are distinct of your personality, and who you are.

What you are implying that I meant somehow got taken out of extreme proportions.

Your emotional needs, like the desire to be liked or appreciated, however, are very much at stake if your emotional needs would come into conflict with your serving as president because the tension between what you want -i.e. to be liked and appreciated by the community- and the reality of what the job as president will do -i.e. put you in tension between the community and juggle- will result in a considerable degree of strain on both the extent to which you are liked or appreciated.

I agree and do not see it as an issue.

That is one of the most patently ignorant things I have ever heard you say, TUF. It's like you're arguing with me just to argue.

Funny, that is my exact same interpretation of where you are taking this discussion.

YOUR JUDGEMENT IS THE SOLE FACTOR WHICH WILL HAVE THE MOST IMPACT ON HOW YOU RUN,

Yep.

and for the very reason that you can't see that is the reason that I can and will not support you for the election.

I have no idea what you are saying. Do you?

It's because you have literally no idea what you're getting into at best, or are just willfully obfuscating to safe face at worse that makes me so highly trepidatious to see you in office.

You have failed to justify this with examples over and over again. It's a weight less statement full of angst and emotions.

That is lovely too, but irrelevant to what I said. I'm talking about what a platform does for a candidate, and what value it serves in a campaign. You're talking about the extent to which the community is "diverse" which -while true- is beyond the scope of the discussion.

And you refuse to think the two can be linked?

I think you either don't understand what I said, or are intentionally trying to change the subject because it's inconvenient for you. So, let me refocus: this election is of course about your platform -but your platform is secondary to your personality because the primary value of a candidate's platform, in reality, is no more than as a litmus of the extent to which they understand the community they aspire to represent.

Never said it wasn't. *yawn*

What is the point of trying to work with juggle based on your own assessment?

Your question is half stupid, half not. It's half stupid because it's asking for a subjective account of what presidents "do" in relation to juggle, it's only half stupid because the subjectivity inherent in your phraseology is easily dismissible. So, it's very simple: A DDO president works with Juggle to represent the interests of the DDO community. That's not just my own assessment, either. It's the literal reason that presidents are elected.

Thanks. Now... where do you think I don't plan on making good with that? What have I said or done that makes you think I am incapable of making such a connection?

Again, irrelevant. Why? The platform's value is less about what the president wants to accomplish, and more about understanding the community.

I DO disagree with you here. In this, is where you fail to see the power of a normal user and his voice, which is sad. Such is why I think it is great that I do not have such abilities as airmax does. And again with respect, I hope to prove you wrong if elected.

By writing a platform that appeals to people, the candidate indicates that they "get" what the community wants.

Which is why I don't place everything solely in the hands of external forces.

And, you might win on your platform given Cody's nearly complete lack of one. But, your platform is something I'm less concerned about than other things.

It would be great if you would ever be willing to explain the reasons behind those other things too.

Again, irrelevant. And, even if that were true, to work on multiple solutions under your administration would require an exercise of your judgement -which you've already said doesn't apply.

I didn't say that. You wrongly Interpreted that.

If there is one thing I am certain of, it is that in no way will you be able to accomplish that feat.

And when I do, I will be thankful to you for having motivated me with such comments.

You are not Arimax, and you will not lead the way Airmax does because you are two totally different people, with totally different ideals and principles.

I agree. I can take his advice and apply to me leadership though, and avoid mistakes he made, or make better decisions.

There are very practical reasons that Airmax hears out both sides -reasons that I don't always find myself in agreement with, but reasons which have more to deal with conflict resolution than site improvement -meaning that your point is precariously close to being irrelevant.

Lol you actually took it somewhere different once again.

And, he want's to give people a chance to feel like they've contributed to the decision making process.

So do I.

But, once more, this election is about you, not Airmax, even though I would be more likely to write his name in -despite the fact that he is not running- than vote for any other candidate running now.

Congrats.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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12/8/2013 12:50:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/8/2013 11:55:00 AM, Citrakayah wrote:
Someone who will get rid of the stupid coding we currently have when making our posts and add a few html tags already. I want to be able to use <sup></sup>, <i></i>, <b></b>, et cetera.

Or better yet? BBCode. Which has coding for footnotes.

That would be nice. I have seen that elsewhere.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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12/8/2013 12:52:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/8/2013 11:33:13 AM, innomen wrote:
I think the real question for you would be, why do you want to be president?

The best president would understand that the job is purely a service position, and not an ego feeding role. Few people would actually want to do what is required of a good president, because it's tedious and has so little recompense.

So, why do you want to be president? Why would you want to take on the work that a good president would do?

It actually is 100% about service for me. :)
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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12/8/2013 1:42:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/8/2013 12:50:40 PM, TUF wrote:
At 12/8/2013 11:55:00 AM, Citrakayah wrote:
Someone who will get rid of the stupid coding we currently have when making our posts and add a few html tags already. I want to be able to use <sup></sup>, <i></i>, <b></b>, et cetera.

Or better yet? BBCode. Which has coding for footnotes.

That would be nice. I have seen that elsewhere.

Excellent. I have never understood why the site uses the tags it uses.
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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12/8/2013 6:27:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/8/2013 1:42:39 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 12/8/2013 12:50:40 PM, TUF wrote:
At 12/8/2013 11:55:00 AM, Citrakayah wrote:
Someone who will get rid of the stupid coding we currently have when making our posts and add a few html tags already. I want to be able to use <sup></sup>, <i></i>, <b></b>, et cetera.

Or better yet? BBCode. Which has coding for footnotes.

That would be nice. I have seen that elsewhere.

Excellent. I have never understood why the site uses the tags it uses.

They used to have HTML compatibility in the messaging options (I will admit, I had a lot of fun with that a year ago with WSA). They unfortunately removed it I think though.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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12/8/2013 6:44:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/8/2013 11:51:40 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/8/2013 11:39:47 AM, TUF wrote:
Stop. Breathe. Re read the conversation. I have 3 times at this point. Before I waste time contuining, please tell me where exactly our disagreement is and be VERY specific.

Being patronizing and condescending isn't going to win you any points with me, and i've already been explicitly clear with you. Believe it or not, the reason that I wrote in all capital letters is for emphasis so that you would not pay attention, not because I'm yelling. But, given that you clearly lack the ability to decipher tones or interpret motives behind textual communication, as you have repeatedly demonstrated over and again, it is not surprising that you wrote what you just did.

I am not going to engage in insults with you if that is what you want. Give me a clear logical explanation, or nothing at all. You can take my words as patronizing all you want, when that is clearly not the intention. Why do you continue to try and escalate this? Again, PM me and get whatever angst you have against me, off your chest. I have done nothing to you worthy of this abuse, and I just want to understand where it is coming from.

Not only do I agree with most of what your are arguing here, but I am scratching my head trying to find the connection of where you think I made certain arguments.

TUF, this is the point where I just flat out say the following: you're talking out of both sides of your mouth right now.

Jeez dude. This is getting insane.

I am left completely confused at to your motivations.

Obviously. First, you thought this was a personal attack against you.

No. This IS a personal attack against me. You continuously refuse to explain why you think the things you think, while insulting me, defaming me, and even saying you won't support me because of the person I am. That is about as personal as it gets. And I have done nothing to deserve it.

Then, you thought I was just being difficult.

You ARE, because you won't explain yourself. It's getting annoying, and I feel like giving up, but I can't because you keep making comments publicly asserting things against me and refuse to back any of them up. I wouldn't do that to you, and I never expected such conduct from you. Then again, the election, I recall very few times I have actually spoken with you.

Now, you're perplexed because you cannot understand that I truly and sincerely believe that you are not a good fit for president. It's not personal, it never was.

Again it is personal, otherwise you would explain yourself, cite examples, and make logical arguments rather than blindly spewing negativity towards me and my platform without giving anyone anything to support what you are saying.

I am reading a bunch of capitalized letters, emphasized statements, and passionate words all saying... exactly the same thing I have been saying, maybe better worded.

So, I'm thinking that you don't understand what I said, then, because you can't see the distinction.

Exactly. I don't understand you, because you won't tell me directly. You are trying to fight me at every corner for some unknown reason. You keep making comments expecting me to just sit here and take it. I would be okay with it, if I thought there was a good reason behind it, but I don't see you as a person to be doing this type of thing, and it is really surprising and aggravating.

I am left with the repeated statement that you don't think I have the traits to do what I say I can, or the duty you believe is required be president.

Incorrect. I believe that your personality is not conducive to being president and that your understanding of what the president actually does is fundamentally misguided.

Okay, tell me what is mis-guided about it. This entire post has been the same thing you have been doing the whole time: Making an assertion and then dancing around actually giving me a direct answer.

But you keep avoiding the most important part of that, my which is explaining why.

I have explained why ad nauseum. Your willful disregarding or failure to understand what I'm saying does not mean that I have insufficiently explained my perspective. I think there are others who agree with me as well. They're just too polite to say so.

I think there are others who agree with me that you asserting things, not backing them up, and running off is rude, and un-necessary. If you honestly think you have explained this, then this conversation is over, because I have yet to see one thread of explanation. And it looks like I am wasting my time, because you don't have any.

Lets cut to the chase and stop playing guessing games. Based on your very limited experience of me, why do you think I cannot?

Do you realize what it means that you have asked that question, in the context of everything that I've said?

More dancing. Great, I guess this conversation IS done. Thank you for wasting my time, energy, and patience. If you ever feel the need to make a logical argument, or want to get this (whatever it is and where it came from) off your chest, message me.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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12/8/2013 6:45:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/8/2013 12:21:29 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/8/2013 11:52:15 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/8/2013 11:33:13 AM, innomen wrote:
The best president would understand that the job is purely a service position, and not an ego feeding role. Few people would actually want to do what is required of a good president, because it's tedious and has so little recompense.

Words that should be cast in bronze.

Power is best given to reluctant leaders, but let's put something into perspective.

Airmax is not running. The position WILL be filled and even if you don't support any of the candidates, a spirit of indifference will prove folly. This election is supposed to reveal the character of the people running and I think the dirty laundry has been aired out with extreme prejudice.
None of the candidates are perfect, and we need to stop trying to compare them to Airmax. We are looking for a mirror image replacement for Airmax because we have become complacent with his style of leadership. The only person who can moderate like Airmax is Airmax. Since he's not running, let's be a bit more intelligent about how we judge the candidates.

We shouldn't expect perfection. We should expect:

1.> Approachability - Can we bring an issue to them, regardless of how trivial it is and get the sense that they care about our concerns. Sometimes it helps to simply be acknowledged, even if a solution cannot be provided. (Some problems must simply run their course).
I am afraid that some people who run for this office would assume an attitude of: "This is beneath me. Handle it yourself." I don't get that vibe from TUF on any level. The guy is approachable just like Airmax and that is by far the most important character quality I want in a President here.

2.> Proactivity - Will the candidate actually follow through on their campaign promises? TUF and ClassicRobert are working t improve the site regardless of their position in office. That shows me that the "title" is a formality. Their desire to serve the community is intrinsic to their character.

3.>Integrity - The candidate must embody certain core values. They should not be able to be bribed, manipulated or intimidated. TUF serves in the Armed Forces. He literally serves the country in a capacity that demands the very core values we need in a President. That means he doesn't need to learn these traits on the job...he already has them and proficiently can use them to be a steadfast and fair moderator. The level of maturity a service member would bring to this office is unmatched by any other candidate.

Thank you for all the kind words, especially in regards to # 3.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Citrakayah
Posts: 1,500
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12/8/2013 7:41:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/8/2013 6:27:58 PM, TUF wrote:
At 12/8/2013 1:42:39 PM, Citrakayah wrote:
At 12/8/2013 12:50:40 PM, TUF wrote:
At 12/8/2013 11:55:00 AM, Citrakayah wrote:
Someone who will get rid of the stupid coding we currently have when making our posts and add a few html tags already. I want to be able to use <sup></sup>, <i></i>, <b></b>, et cetera.

Or better yet? BBCode. Which has coding for footnotes.

That would be nice. I have seen that elsewhere.

Excellent. I have never understood why the site uses the tags it uses.

They used to have HTML compatibility in the messaging options (I will admit, I had a lot of fun with that a year ago with WSA). They unfortunately removed it I think though.

Why? It's not too hard to restrict which tags can be used.