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YYW Endorses Bsh1 and Thett3

YYW
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12/10/2013 1:30:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I endorse Bsh1 and Thett3 for president/VP.

In the more than two years that I've been on this site, I have seen two good presidents. Innomen, and Airmax, respectively. I'm voting for Bsh1 and Thett3 because I think only they represent the best chance for another good presidential administration. I stand by their platform, and I think that they are both, and only they, more than adequately suited to act as a liaison between Juggle and DDO, to represent the interests of the DDO community.

As Airmax's Chief of Staff, I have seen a lot -the good, the bad and the ugly. It is invariably the case that acting as an intermediary between Juggle and the DDO community places the president in constant tension between competing interests. There are some who either dismiss that reality, or downplay it. Those people have no idea what being the president actually entails. It is a time consuming responsibility, it is a difficult position to hold, and it requires a personality that is calm, stable and not easily shaken -but who is also strong in their commitment to the community, patient, and who understands the community, it's values, ideals and principles.

Bsh1 is new, but he "gets" all of that. He is as committed to debating as he is to playing an active role in the community and he has proven himself to be an excellent communicator. He has demonstrated that he understands the competing interests of the DDO community and Juggle -and his platform is enough to show that he knows where that tension lies. Not everything in his platform may be achievable, because of those competing interests -but his platform shows the fact that he understands what impact the Opinion section and the Polls section has on the community, even if Juggle's relegating those sections to somewhere other than here may be a difficult -if not unattainable goal.

But, Bsh1 is new. It is reassuring, then, that he has Thett3 as his running mate. Thett3 is one of the most highly respected, most widely known and almost universally appreciated members on this site -and so he needs no introduction. He's a calm negotiator, he's a loyal advocate and he's not easily shaken by hard questions. Like Bsh1, Thett3's personality is exactly what we as a community ought to hope for in representing us to Juggle. They are both savvy and calm; sensible and prudent. They stand for what is the best in all of us, and they embody what this community is all about.

Therefore, I grant them my wholehearted endorsement, and my strongest support in the upcoming election. I believe that they are our best chance at a brighter future; because they both have a keen sense of where we are and where we need to go. They're not perfect, but no one is. And yet, they embody what we stand for as a community. They are active debaters, they understand what challenges this community faces and they have an understanding of what needs to be done for what's best for this community. They are the best and only prudent choice in this election. And I am with them.

-YYW
bsh1
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12/10/2013 1:41:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
YYW -- thank you for your endorsement. It means a lot that you have such faith in both of us!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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YYW
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12/10/2013 1:53:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 1:41:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
YYW -- thank you for your endorsement. It means a lot that you have such faith in both of us!

;)
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/10/2013 2:17:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If I may...

Nothing against Bsh1 or Thett, but the former doesn't have much rapport with the site community and the latter seems a little bit too young - not that age should disqualify anyone from being a good representative, but the position seems to demand - as far as I can tell - a good level of maturity. If the representative is very young, then he should also be unusually precocious.

also,... your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race. Just sayin....
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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12/10/2013 2:19:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:17:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
If I may...

Nothing against Bsh1 or Thett, but the former doesn't have much rapport with the site community and the latter seems a little bit too young - not that age should disqualify anyone from being a good representative, but the position seems to demand - as far as I can tell - a good level of maturity. If the representative is very young, then he should also be unusually precocious.

also,... your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race. Just sayin....

I dropped out of the race because my past behavior became a problematic issue that I realized is something I should focus on reforming, and that running for president would prevent me from doing so, not because of YYW's endorsement...... Idiot
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/10/2013 2:23:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:19:48 PM, imabench wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:17:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
If I may...

Nothing against Bsh1 or Thett, but the former doesn't have much rapport with the site community and the latter seems a little bit too young - not that age should disqualify anyone from being a good representative, but the position seems to demand - as far as I can tell - a good level of maturity. If the representative is very young, then he should also be unusually precocious.

also,... your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race. Just sayin....

I dropped out of the race because my past behavior became a problematic issue that I realized is something I should focus on reforming, and that running for president would prevent me from doing so, not because of YYW's endorsement...... Idiot

I didn't say you dropped out because of YYW's endorsement. I implied that YYW's endorsement was demonstrably poor.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
YYW
Posts: 36,242
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12/10/2013 2:27:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:17:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
If I may...

Nothing against Bsh1 or Thett, but the former doesn't have much rapport with the site community and the latter seems a little bit too young - not that age should disqualify anyone from being a good representative, but the position seems to demand - as far as I can tell - a good level of maturity. If the representative is very young, then he should also be unusually precocious.

also,... your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race. Just sayin....

Interesting. I'm sure that all the people who complained were probably leaning in support of TUF... but I'm not really worried about whether or not people complain. I believe -and still do- that Imabench would be a better candidate than TUF. I also believe that Bsh1/thett is the best chance for a better future on DDO. People can disagree with me, though. That's not something I'm really concerned about, though.

I also think that both Bsh1 and thett are unusually precocious. I also think that they are both leaps and bounds more mature than TUF.
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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12/10/2013 2:28:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:23:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:19:48 PM, imabench wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:17:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
If I may...

Nothing against Bsh1 or Thett, but the former doesn't have much rapport with the site community and the latter seems a little bit too young - not that age should disqualify anyone from being a good representative, but the position seems to demand - as far as I can tell - a good level of maturity. If the representative is very young, then he should also be unusually precocious.

also,... your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race. Just sayin....

I dropped out of the race because my past behavior became a problematic issue that I realized is something I should focus on reforming, and that running for president would prevent me from doing so, not because of YYW's endorsement...... Idiot

I didn't say you dropped out because of YYW's endorsement. I implied that YYW's endorsement was demonstrably poor.

Several weeks ago bsh1 was still figuring out how to gain the ability to vote on a debate....today bsh1 is running for President, with his mentor as his vice. If the ticket made any sense at all, thett should be running for President, with bsh1 learning how to get his hands dirty.....but then again...I always found Russian roulette exciting.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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12/10/2013 2:29:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:23:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:19:48 PM, imabench wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:17:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
If I may...

Nothing against Bsh1 or Thett, but the former doesn't have much rapport with the site community and the latter seems a little bit too young - not that age should disqualify anyone from being a good representative, but the position seems to demand - as far as I can tell - a good level of maturity. If the representative is very young, then he should also be unusually precocious.

also,... your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race. Just sayin....

I dropped out of the race because my past behavior became a problematic issue that I realized is something I should focus on reforming, and that running for president would prevent me from doing so, not because of YYW's endorsement...... Idiot

I didn't say you dropped out because of YYW's endorsement. I implied that YYW's endorsement was demonstrably poor.

"Your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race."

You were clearly saying that I dropped out because of YYW's last endorsement.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
YYW
Posts: 36,242
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12/10/2013 2:32:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:28:33 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:23:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:19:48 PM, imabench wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:17:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
If I may...

Nothing against Bsh1 or Thett, but the former doesn't have much rapport with the site community and the latter seems a little bit too young - not that age should disqualify anyone from being a good representative, but the position seems to demand - as far as I can tell - a good level of maturity. If the representative is very young, then he should also be unusually precocious.

also,... your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race. Just sayin....

I dropped out of the race because my past behavior became a problematic issue that I realized is something I should focus on reforming, and that running for president would prevent me from doing so, not because of YYW's endorsement...... Idiot

I didn't say you dropped out because of YYW's endorsement. I implied that YYW's endorsement was demonstrably poor.

Several weeks ago bsh1 was still figuring out how to gain the ability to vote on a debate....today bsh1 is running for President, with his mentor as his vice. If the ticket made any sense at all, thett should be running for President, with bsh1 learning how to get his hands dirty.....but then again...I always found Russian roulette exciting.

Airmax would be mentoring both of them if they won, which is why I'm not especially persuaded by your "Russian roulette" analogy.
YYW
Posts: 36,242
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12/10/2013 2:33:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:23:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:19:48 PM, imabench wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:17:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
If I may...

Nothing against Bsh1 or Thett, but the former doesn't have much rapport with the site community and the latter seems a little bit too young - not that age should disqualify anyone from being a good representative, but the position seems to demand - as far as I can tell - a good level of maturity. If the representative is very young, then he should also be unusually precocious.

also,... your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race. Just sayin....

I dropped out of the race because my past behavior became a problematic issue that I realized is something I should focus on reforming, and that running for president would prevent me from doing so, not because of YYW's endorsement...... Idiot

I didn't say you dropped out because of YYW's endorsement. I implied that YYW's endorsement was demonstrably poor.

You didn't imply -you outrightly stated that. And that's ok... I know that the reason you think it was demonstrably poor was because you aren't really all that fond of Imabnech. Right?
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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12/10/2013 2:38:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:32:28 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:28:33 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:23:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:19:48 PM, imabench wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:17:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
If I may...

Nothing against Bsh1 or Thett, but the former doesn't have much rapport with the site community and the latter seems a little bit too young - not that age should disqualify anyone from being a good representative, but the position seems to demand - as far as I can tell - a good level of maturity. If the representative is very young, then he should also be unusually precocious.

also,... your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race. Just sayin....

I dropped out of the race because my past behavior became a problematic issue that I realized is something I should focus on reforming, and that running for president would prevent me from doing so, not because of YYW's endorsement...... Idiot

I didn't say you dropped out because of YYW's endorsement. I implied that YYW's endorsement was demonstrably poor.

Several weeks ago bsh1 was still figuring out how to gain the ability to vote on a debate....today bsh1 is running for President, with his mentor as his vice. If the ticket made any sense at all, thett should be running for President, with bsh1 learning how to get his hands dirty.....but then again...I always found Russian roulette exciting.

Airmax would be mentoring both of them if they won, which is why I'm not especially persuaded by your "Russian roulette" analogy.

If Airmax needs to mentor them, then perhaps they don't need to run. It's one thing for Airmax to lend his opinion, but setting up a Presidential internship is ridiculous. You're literally willing to settle for anyone that isn't TUF. The ticket is backwards, and loaded with inexperience. You're quite literally hoping and praying that they'll do a good job, because there is absolutely zero evidence that either one is a leader, or that they have even the slightest ambition to actually do anything except shake hands and kiss babies. At least TUF is producing actual work...like manhours....for the site. These guys are just an...."anti-TUF" campaign ticket, nothing more. Nothing personal against them...but inexperience is inexperience. It literally means that we don't know enough about them and they don't know enough about themselves to fill the job.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/10/2013 2:39:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:33:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:23:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:19:48 PM, imabench wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:17:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
If I may...

Nothing against Bsh1 or Thett, but the former doesn't have much rapport with the site community and the latter seems a little bit too young - not that age should disqualify anyone from being a good representative, but the position seems to demand - as far as I can tell - a good level of maturity. If the representative is very young, then he should also be unusually precocious.

also,... your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race. Just sayin....

I dropped out of the race because my past behavior became a problematic issue that I realized is something I should focus on reforming, and that running for president would prevent me from doing so, not because of YYW's endorsement...... Idiot

I didn't say you dropped out because of YYW's endorsement. I implied that YYW's endorsement was demonstrably poor.

You didn't imply -you outrightly stated that.

if you don't mind, could you please explain that to Imabench?

And that's ok... I know that the reason you think it was demonstrably poor was because you aren't really all that fond of Imabnech. Right?

I'm not fond of him, but it just so happens that the reasons why I'm not fond of him are also excellent reasons to disqualify him as leader of anything.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
YYW
Posts: 36,242
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12/10/2013 2:55:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:38:48 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:32:28 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:28:33 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:23:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:19:48 PM, imabench wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:17:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
If I may...

Nothing against Bsh1 or Thett, but the former doesn't have much rapport with the site community and the latter seems a little bit too young - not that age should disqualify anyone from being a good representative, but the position seems to demand - as far as I can tell - a good level of maturity. If the representative is very young, then he should also be unusually precocious.

also,... your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race. Just sayin....

I dropped out of the race because my past behavior became a problematic issue that I realized is something I should focus on reforming, and that running for president would prevent me from doing so, not because of YYW's endorsement...... Idiot

I didn't say you dropped out because of YYW's endorsement. I implied that YYW's endorsement was demonstrably poor.

Several weeks ago bsh1 was still figuring out how to gain the ability to vote on a debate....today bsh1 is running for President, with his mentor as his vice. If the ticket made any sense at all, thett should be running for President, with bsh1 learning how to get his hands dirty.....but then again...I always found Russian roulette exciting.

Airmax would be mentoring both of them if they won, which is why I'm not especially persuaded by your "Russian roulette" analogy.

If Airmax needs to mentor them, then perhaps they don't need to run. It's one thing for Airmax to lend his opinion, but setting up a Presidential internship is ridiculous.

Oh, come on now, Heineken... I didn't say anything about a presidential internship. But, here's the thing... it's going to be necessary for any candidate to seek out Airmax's help because there is no one who is running who has anything close to the required experience to be sufficiently qualified to do the job. TUF has only done some site development stuff. He has never been involved in executive decisions. He has never been in a position that is even remotely comparable to that of the presidency -so, while I hear your concerns about Bsh1's inexperience -TUF is just as inexperienced for the position he's running for as is Bsh1.

You're literally willing to settle for anyone that isn't TUF. The ticket is backwards, and loaded with inexperience.

I mentioned inexperience earlier, but here is the thing: the ticket is what it is, and the same applies to TUF and Cody. I am categorically against TUF winning this election, for reasons I have stated ad nauseum -and that much is clear. It also happens that I genuinely believe that Bsh1 and Thett are good options -and, if I dare say so, considerably better than Imabench. I think Imabench would even agree with me on this point.

You're quite literally hoping and praying that they'll do a good job, because there is absolutely zero evidence that either one is a leader, or that they have even the slightest ambition to actually do anything except shake hands and kiss babies.

I'm not praying, but I am hoping that they win because I know that they will do better than TUF ever could. I like TUF, but he's not a leader. And I'm not the only one who thinks so. TUF's own vice president was so concerned about TUF's inability to lead this site that he joined the other ticket -something he would not have done unless he genuinely believed (1) that there was a sizable difference between what hope Bsh1 and thett offered, and (2) that TUF was inadequate for the job.

At least TUF is producing actual work...like manhours....for the site. These guys are just an...."anti-TUF" campaign ticket, nothing more.

Not at all. Thett and Bsh1 are both doing this because they are genuinely committed to the best interest of the community. If I ran, though, that would be -at this point- a wholly anti-TUF campaign.

Nothing personal against them...but inexperience is inexperience. It literally means that we don't know enough about them and they don't know enough about themselves to fill the job.

And TUF is just as inexperienced in the capacity of president as Bsh1 and Thett is. Thett, at least, was involved in Airmax's administration in more than a site-development capacity and so he has the most understanding of what will actually be required of both him and Bsh1. But, here's something to think about: you're talking to a guy who has literally worked side by side with Airmax as his Chief of Staff -who has the experience to recognize what makes a good president- and I'm saying that Bsh1 and Thett are the guys, and that TUF isn't.
YYW
Posts: 36,242
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12/10/2013 2:57:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:39:26 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:33:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:23:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:19:48 PM, imabench wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:17:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
If I may...

Nothing against Bsh1 or Thett, but the former doesn't have much rapport with the site community and the latter seems a little bit too young - not that age should disqualify anyone from being a good representative, but the position seems to demand - as far as I can tell - a good level of maturity. If the representative is very young, then he should also be unusually precocious.

also,... your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race. Just sayin....

I dropped out of the race because my past behavior became a problematic issue that I realized is something I should focus on reforming, and that running for president would prevent me from doing so, not because of YYW's endorsement...... Idiot

I didn't say you dropped out because of YYW's endorsement. I implied that YYW's endorsement was demonstrably poor.

You didn't imply -you outrightly stated that.

if you don't mind, could you please explain that to Imabench?

What's to explain? You said what you said. I stand by my endorsement because Imabench would have been a better president than TUF -whether he was with Cody or not.

And that's ok... I know that the reason you think it was demonstrably poor was because you aren't really all that fond of Imabnech. Right?

I'm not fond of him, but it just so happens that the reasons why I'm not fond of him are also excellent reasons to disqualify him as leader of anything.

Fair enough. Oddly enough, I think that -despite his passive aggressive, or just outrightly aggressive vitriol directed towards me- I think that TUF is probably a nice enough guy -but he's just not fit to be president. And, even given Bench's shortcomings, I still believe that he would have been better than TUF.
000ike
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12/10/2013 3:06:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:57:37 PM, YYW wrote:

Fair enough. Oddly enough, I think that -despite his passive aggressive, or just outrightly aggressive vitriol directed towards me- I think that TUF is probably a nice enough guy -but he's just not fit to be president. And, even given Bench's shortcomings, I still believe that he would have been better than TUF.

This is not supposed to be vitriolic or aggressive. I'm just questioning how and why you're making these judgments.

Although, I must admit, I did find the support for bench offensive to all the people he's either insulted or told to kill themselves - that much was annoying. But beyond that, this is just genuine inquiry.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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12/10/2013 3:13:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:39:26 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:33:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:23:38 PM, 000ike wrote:

I didn't say you dropped out because of YYW's endorsement. I implied that YYW's endorsement was demonstrably poor.

You didn't imply -you outrightly stated that.

if you don't mind, could you please explain that to Imabench?

I think youre the one here who needs to be taught the difference between imply and outright state something since you clearly dont know the difference
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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12/10/2013 3:29:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 2:55:34 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:38:48 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:32:28 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:28:33 PM, Heineken wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:23:38 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:19:48 PM, imabench wrote:
At 12/10/2013 2:17:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
If I may...

Nothing against Bsh1 or Thett, but the former doesn't have much rapport with the site community and the latter seems a little bit too young - not that age should disqualify anyone from being a good representative, but the position seems to demand - as far as I can tell - a good level of maturity. If the representative is very young, then he should also be unusually precocious.

also,... your last endorsement was so horrible that several people complained and he dropped out of the race. Just sayin....

I dropped out of the race because my past behavior became a problematic issue that I realized is something I should focus on reforming, and that running for president would prevent me from doing so, not because of YYW's endorsement...... Idiot

I didn't say you dropped out because of YYW's endorsement. I implied that YYW's endorsement was demonstrably poor.

Several weeks ago bsh1 was still figuring out how to gain the ability to vote on a debate....today bsh1 is running for President, with his mentor as his vice. If the ticket made any sense at all, thett should be running for President, with bsh1 learning how to get his hands dirty.....but then again...I always found Russian roulette exciting.

Airmax would be mentoring both of them if they won, which is why I'm not especially persuaded by your "Russian roulette" analogy.

If Airmax needs to mentor them, then perhaps they don't need to run. It's one thing for Airmax to lend his opinion, but setting up a Presidential internship is ridiculous.

Oh, come on now, Heineken... I didn't say anything about a presidential internship. But, here's the thing... it's going to be necessary for any candidate to seek out Airmax's help because there is no one who is running who has anything close to the required experience to be sufficiently qualified to do the job.

It's not necessary at all, if the Candidate is qualified to actually hold the office. YYW, since when do we elect people to office based on personality? (Well, that may be a stupid question, considering the state of American politics, but you get the idea).

A political candidate's primary (let me emphasize that)...primary....qualification for office is "experience". TUF has experience. He is proactive in getting vote participation up. He holds these generous raffles, which literally affect people's lives for the better. He programs improvements to increase the appeal of the website and he has done all of this BEFORE running for office, not BECAUSE he's running for office. You are ignoring clear signs of leadership because his personality bothers you. There is absolutely zero truth in your argument that he has no leadership experience. It's either a flagrant lie or you simply didn't think it through before you said it. I mean, you have even conceded that he has the experience to do the job. Your problem with him is character based, not ability based. You did say that, didn't you?

TUF has only done some site development stuff.
That's leadership. Leaders serve the public.
He has never been involved in executive decisions.
That's because you need to hold executive office to be involved in executive decisions.
He has never been in a position that is even remotely comparable to that of the presidency
That because no such position exists. Noone has held the magical position you speak of. The Presidency is the only public position that Juggle offers.....well, no wait. That's not true. Juggle is offering positions as programmers for content and wouldn't you know it...TUF volunteered for it.
It seems to me that TUF is the only candidate who has served in ANY official capacity besides Airmax.

-so, while I hear your concerns about Bsh1's inexperience -TUF is just as inexperienced for the position he's running for as is Bsh1.

You don't hear me at all. You're not even making sense. Your arguments aren't an opinion here. They're flagrant falsehoods.
The guy serves in the Armed Forces. He's got more leadership skills than probably 90% of the people here.

You're literally willing to settle for anyone that isn't TUF. The ticket is backwards, and loaded with inexperience.

I mentioned inexperience earlier, but here is the thing: the ticket is what it is, and the same applies to TUF and Cody. I am categorically against TUF winning this election, for reasons I have stated ad nauseum -and that much is clear. It also happens that I genuinely believe that Bsh1 and Thett are good options -and, if I dare say so, considerably better than Imabench. I think Imabench would even agree with me on this point.

I can't and won't comment on that. It's dead and buried.

You're quite literally hoping and praying that they'll do a good job, because there is absolutely zero evidence that either one is a leader, or that they have even the slightest ambition to actually do anything except shake hands and kiss babies.

I'm not praying, but I am hoping that they win because I know that they will do better than TUF ever could.

You don't know that. You're insisting on it out of pure resolve, but knowledge has nothing to do with it. There is no evidence for it, and if there was, why haven't you started a thread, showing objective, inspectable evidence to support this claim?
Give me a reason to vote for bsh1, except for your stubborn resolve.

I like TUF, but he's not a leader.
That's untrue. He's not the leader you've envisioned. He is however, one of the few people who have taken initiative to better the site...and real labor goes into his craft.
You can't possibly deny that his proactive service to DDO isn't a leadership trait.

And I'm not the only one who thinks so. TUF's own vice president was so concerned about TUF's inability to lead this site that he joined the other ticket -something he would not have done unless he genuinely believed (1) that there was a sizable difference between what hope Bsh1 and thett offered, and (2) that TUF was inadequate for the job.

CR abandoned his running mate and used moral high-ground as the reason. If I am to believe that TUF is inadequate to serve as President, because CR abandoned him...then I must first be convinced that CR's judgment is sound. The "abandoned by the VP" argument isn't evidence. It's smear. A red herring.

At least TUF is producing actual work...like manhours....for the site. These guys are just an...."anti-TUF" campaign ticket, nothing more.

Not at all. Thett and Bsh1 are both doing this because they are genuinely committed to the best interest of the community.

Good intentions don't do the job. That's how I lost my health coverage.

If I ran, though, that would be -at this point- a wholly anti-TUF campaign.

Nothing personal against them...but inexperience is inexperience. It literally means that we don't know enough about them and they don't know enough about themselves to fill the job.

And TUF is just as inexperienced in the capacity of president as Bsh1 and Thett is. Thett, at least, was involved in Airmax's administration in more than a site-development capacity and so he has the most understanding of what will actually be required of both him and Bsh1. But, here's something to think about: you're talking to a guy who has literally worked side by side with Airmax as his Chief of Staff -who has the experience to recognize what makes a good president- a
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
YYW
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12/11/2013 1:31:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/10/2013 3:29:34 PM, Heineken wrote:
It's not necessary at all, if the Candidate is qualified to actually hold the office. YYW, since when do we elect people to office based on personality? (Well, that may be a stupid question, considering the state of American politics, but you get the idea).

We always elect people on the basis of personality, if we are wise. We elect people who are best able to negotiate with Juggle and represent DDO's interests. We do not elect people just because we like them or because we think that somehow they "deserve" it. Being president isn't like being knighted. It's an unpleasant job that puts a person in constant tension between adversarial parties and TUF can not handle that. He doesn't even believe that the job requires that he will be in constant tension between DDO and Juggle -because he has no idea what he's getting into. Moreover, on multiple occasions TUF has been outrightly hostile with and condescending to members of the community because he internalizes anything that is in conflict with what he thinks is a personal attack -which is as juvenile as it is indicative of his inability to reconcile conflicting perspectives. If he can't even keep a cool head in the forums or when a person votes against him in a debate, how is it even remotely conceivable that he could negotiate with Juggle? It's not. At all.

A political candidate's primary (let me emphasize that)...primary....qualification for office is "experience". TUF has experience. He is proactive in getting vote participation up. He holds these generous raffles, which literally affect people's lives for the better. He programs improvements to increase the appeal of the website and he has done all of this BEFORE running for office, not BECAUSE he's running for office.

TUF ONLY has experience in site development, and it is his personality which is all any of us have to go on to evaluate his perspective success in representing DDO's interests to Juggle. Given that his personality is wholly incompatible with the demands of the job at hand, it is inconceivable that he could be successful in representing DDO's interests to Juggle.

You are ignoring clear signs of leadership because his personality bothers you.

Don't be ridiculous. His personality doesn't bother me. His personality is only incompatible with the office of the presidency. He is therefore not fit to lead. That I deem him unfit to lead does not mean that I have a problem with who he is. This is something that TUF can't understand either. This isn't personal -but he, and apparently his supporters want to make it personal because they want to change the narrative from why TUF is not capable of being a president to why we should vote for him because YYW is being mean.

There is absolutely zero truth in your argument that he has no leadership experience. It's either a flagrant lie or you simply didn't think it through before you said it. I mean, you have even conceded that he has the experience to do the job. Your problem with him is character based, not ability based. You did say that, didn't you?

Heineken, be real here. I have said only that he has experience in site development -not that his experience is sufficient to indicate that he will be a good president. In fact, I have said the opposite. And no, my problem with him is not character based. It's personality based. It would be wonderful if you, he and the rest of your lot could understand that very simple fact.

That's untrue. He's not the leader you've envisioned. He is however, one of the few people who have taken initiative to better the site...and real labor goes into his craft. You can't possibly deny that his proactive service to DDO isn't a leadership trait.

...all the more reason he should continue with site development to the extent that he chooses. Being president is not a "reward" to be conferred upon someone who makes sacrifices for the community.

The "abandoned by the VP" argument isn't evidence. It's smear. A red herring.

Of course you have to dismiss CR's position in any way you can, because to do otherwise is to admit that TUF is incapable of leading -so, you're working backwards from the conclusion to the justification -but hey, I won't hold that against you. But, that something is inconvenient for you doesn't make it a red herring.

Good intentions don't do the job. That's how I lost my health coverage.

On this, we wholly agree -which is why TUF can run for this, and I believe that he means well -but just as connived as I am that he means well, I am also convinced that he would not be even an adequate president.
TUF
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12/11/2013 6:21:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
YYW, I have a quick question if you wouldn't mind answering it for the sake of anyone viewing this conversation.

At 12/10/2013 2:57:37 PM, YYW wrote:
And, even given Bench's shortcomings, I still believe that he would have been better than TUF.

Do you find in anyway that this statement ^

The "abandoned by the VP" argument isn't evidence. It's smear. A red herring.

Of course you have to dismiss CR's position in any way you can, because to do otherwise is to admit that TUF is incapable of leading -so, you're working backwards from the conclusion to the justification -but hey, I won't hold that against you. But, that something is inconvenient for you doesn't make it a red herring.

Contradicts this point ^ considering citrakyah had pulled out from being imabenchs vice? If not, could you please explain why?
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
YYW
Posts: 36,242
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12/11/2013 10:29:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think that this election is going to be the most decisive in the site's history. I think that if bsh1 and thett win, it's going to mean something very good for the site's future. I really think that bsh1 and thett are the best option, and the only candidate that can actually prudently represent DDO's interests to Juggle. I think they understand that this role is not a reward for past personal effort. I think they grasp that this is something that's not going to be easy, but something that they need to do for the betterment of the community. That's what I think... I'll leave it to others to make their decision.