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Debate help? (Questions about layouts, ect)

Silhouette
Posts: 8
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12/20/2013 10:08:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hello everyone :)

I'm still quite new here and I've read the sticky tutorials and such. Thank you to those whom wrote them, they were much help.

I'm just wondering how the layout of a debate should be set out? I've seen many debates with layouts. I tried searching it up and only found a link to a 'Cookbook', but the link didn't work.

Also, what tips do you have for a successful debate?

How should logic be used properly? I'm still a little confused about logic.

When should I define a word? How should I assume a word if it has not been defined?

Can I rebut arguments of the first round in the second round?
E.g
Arguments presented, no rebuts from both sides. - Round 1
Round 2 - ?

I've heard about a cookbook around here but I can't find it. Any help would be great :)

Also any other information related to a better debate would be great too.

Thank you for your help. Sorry for all these questions!
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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12/20/2013 10:47:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/20/2013 10:08:52 PM, Silhouette wrote:
Hello everyone :)

I'm still quite new here and I've read the sticky tutorials and such. Thank you to those whom wrote them, they were much help.

I'm just wondering how the layout of a debate should be set out? I've seen many debates with layouts. I tried searching it up and only found a link to a 'Cookbook', but the link didn't work.

Hi! Here is a link that displays two contrasting formatting styles: http://www.debate.org...

My suggestion would be to find a layout you like and that is used by a successful debater, and to mimic it--at least until you can find your own style.

Also, what tips do you have for a successful debate?

Research is important. Even if you know a lot about your topic, it's vital in making a successful ethos appeal. Include links to all of your sources in the text of the debate too.

How should logic be used properly? I'm still a little confused about logic.

If you're using it, you're good. If you're not, well then...

When should I define a word? How should I assume a word if it has not been defined?

Define the key (most important) words in the topic. If neither you or you opponent defines a term, assume that the normal meaning of the word applies.

Can I rebut arguments of the first round in the second round?
E.g
Arguments presented, no rebuts from both sides. - Round 1
Round 2 - ?

Unless otherwise noted, yes you can rebut in R1 IMHO. You should definitely start rebutting in R2.

I've heard about a cookbook around here but I can't find it. Any help would be great :)

No clue, sorry.

Also any other information related to a better debate would be great too.

Thank you for your help. Sorry for all these questions!

If you have any more questions, feel free to PM me. I would even be willing to give you advice on a debate to help you get started, though I won't be able to make your arguments for you.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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12/21/2013 12:18:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/20/2013 10:08:52 PM, Silhouette wrote:
Hello everyone :)

I'm still quite new here and I've read the sticky tutorials and such. Thank you to those whom wrote them, they were much help.

I'm just wondering how the layout of a debate should be set out? I've seen many debates with layouts. I tried searching it up and only found a link to a 'Cookbook', but the link didn't work.
Round 1: Acceptance
Round 2: Presentation of arguments
Round 3: Rebuttals
Round 4: Closing statements


Also, what tips do you have for a successful debate?
Here is the following:
Conduct: Always thank opponent for his/her time and do not put out personal stuff.
S&G: Read your argument very throughly and spell check.
Arguments: Use sources for this to make sure your arguments actually mean something. An argument without a source is something we like to call an empty argument.
Links: Use a lot of them. If you see any voters who take the 'reliable' thing literally, like me, restrain from using the .com and use the .org, .gov, or .edu instead.

How should logic be used properly? I'm still a little confused about logic.
Organize your arguments and rebuttals like this:
Argument II: A fetus is a human
Rebuttal 2b: Attack against a fetus is a human

When should I define a word? How should I assume a word if it has not been defined?
Use a dictionary, such as merriam-webster, to define a word and include the link. If it hasn't been defined, BY GOD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT!!! Make the definition that best supports your arguments and chances of winning.

Can I rebut arguments of the first round in the second round?
E.g
Arguments presented, no rebuts from both sides. - Round 1
Round 2 - ? No, not how the more experienced guys do it, I think. Usually first round if for acceptance.

I've heard about a cookbook around here but I can't find it. Any help would be great :)
No clue.

Also any other information related to a better debate would be great too.
Add graphs or pictures that help support your point and point out ANY mistake the opposition makes.

Thank you for your help. Sorry for all these questions!
No biggie.

I'm not a big shot like Roy or Tuf or Logical Master, but hey, this will work.
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
Silhouette
Posts: 8
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12/22/2013 6:16:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Thank you so much bsh1 and dtaylor971, I've seen some of your debates when I first came upon this website and they were wonderful. Thank you very much for your expert advice and early Merry Christmas! :)

@bsh1
Hahaha, I understand you won't make my arguments for me (plus it takes away the fun). I have a debate going on about respect and I'll pm you when I'm done for some feedback. Thank you very much once again!

@dtaylor971
You seem like a hotshot to me, I've seen more of your debates then I have of theirs. I'm honored to have you respond and thank you very much for your help once again! :)
Jonbonbon
Posts: 2,763
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12/22/2013 9:11:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/20/2013 10:08:52 PM, Silhouette wrote:
Hello everyone :)

I'm still quite new here and I've read the sticky tutorials and such. Thank you to those whom wrote them, they were much help.

You're welcome :P just kidding I didn't write them.
I'm just wondering how the layout of a debate should be set out? I've seen many debates with layouts. I tried searching it up and only found a link to a 'Cookbook', but the link didn't work.

That sucks.
Also, what tips do you have for a successful debate?

F***your opponents arguments with an iron dildo.
How should logic be used properly? I'm still a little confused about logic.

Oh dear...
When should I define a word? How should I assume a word if it has not been defined?

When no one knows what the f*** a word means, then define it. When no one defines it, use whatever you think it is or look it up and define it.
Can I rebut arguments of the first round in the second round?
E.g
Arguments presented, no rebuts from both sides. - Round 1
Round 2 - ?

Yeah... It's kinda one debate.
I've heard about a cookbook around here but I can't find it. Any help would be great :)

I recommend the one by Gordon Ramsey
Also any other information related to a better debate would be great too.

Lots of debates on here are stupid.
Thank you for your help. Sorry for all these questions!

Well I answered them didn't I?
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9

http://www.debate.org...
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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12/22/2013 11:33:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 6:16:25 AM, Silhouette wrote:
Thank you so much bsh1 and dtaylor971, I've seen some of your debates when I first came upon this website and they were wonderful. Thank you very much for your expert advice and early Merry Christmas! :)

@bsh1
Hahaha, I understand you won't make my arguments for me (plus it takes away the fun). I have a debate going on about respect and I'll pm you when I'm done for some feedback. Thank you very much once again!

@dtaylor971
You seem like a hotshot to me, I've seen more of your debates then I have of theirs. I'm honored to have you respond and thank you very much for your help once again! :)

I'm not a hotshot, but thanks!
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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12/22/2013 4:09:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/22/2013 6:16:25 AM, Silhouette wrote:
Thank you so much bsh1 and dtaylor971, I've seen some of your debates when I first came upon this website and they were wonderful. Thank you very much for your expert advice and early Merry Christmas! :)

@bsh1
Hahaha, I understand you won't make my arguments for me (plus it takes away the fun). I have a debate going on about respect and I'll pm you when I'm done for some feedback. Thank you very much once again!

Glad to help!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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12/23/2013 6:43:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The site doesn't have a standard format, so you have a lot of flexibility in choosing how you present your debate. Having the first round for acceptance is a good practice. If you present your full case you may put in a lot of work only to discover that no one takes the debate. The challenge should make it clear what the resolution is. A resolution is always a declarative sentence that will be affirmed by Pro.

With very few exceptions, initiate the debate as Pro. One of the exceptions is to practice the Con position to prepare for a school debate.

The challenge should give the resolution and some context that clarifies what the debate is about. The whole resolution need not fit in the title, you can expand it in the challenge. For example, the topic has something to do with education, you'll need to make it clear what country and what level (grade school -- college). Citing some article about the subject helps set the context. You should define words with controversial or critical meanings in the challenge. Words not defined get the dictionary meaning that best fits the context of the debate.

Debates should usually have four rounds. Acceptance, two rounds of arguments, and a summary, If Pro initiates, Pro can rebut con's R3 arguments in R4 but cannot introduce new arguments. Con can only summarize the debate, pointing out what he thinks was important.

The case presented in R2 usually has a series of contentions, typically three to five. Each contention should be numbered and have a heading that is a complete sentence. So don't have China as the heading if your contention is China shows aggression. Make it so that if you prove the contentions then the resolution is affirmed.

I recommend putting references in-line in brackets right after the sentence in which the assertion occurs. State the fact, then put the reference after it. People often screw up the numbering when they are listed at the end, and readers usually prefer clicking immediately to see a reference.

Your opponent is supposed to know something about the topic, but readers may not know so much. So write so that readers will understand your arguments, not just your opponent.

Most debates depend upon facts, so research the topic carefully. Look at past debates on the subject. If your opponent forfeits a round, don't let up until you have said all you have to say. There is no shortcut to logical arguing. Look at past debates. Search "logical fallacies" to see examples.
Silhouette
Posts: 8
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1/6/2014 3:34:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Sorry for bringing this thread up again, I have various more questions:

I've seen various acronyms and sayings in debates, what do they mean? Sayings such as:

Extend all arguments
BOP
FF (I assume this is forfeit)?

Are there any more words?
----------
If I am unable to fit all my writing due to character limit in my argument, what should I do? I see some people do it in the next round, how should I state that so the judges know?
----------
If my opponent forfeits, what can I do? Or, if they attempt to troll? Should I always state rules in round one or if I don't, does that mean any "general" rules apply?
-----------
Thank you very much once again and I apoligise for bumping this thread up again.

@RoyLatham

I apoligise for my late response, thank you very much for your input! I really appreciate it and it clears much for me :) Thank you!
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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1/6/2014 12:41:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/6/2014 3:34:39 AM, Silhouette wrote:
Extend all arguments

This means "I haven't dropped any of my arguments, I'm waiting for them to be answered."

BOP

Burden of proof; the debater with the burden of proof must make a convincing case for his position, otherwise it fails. If neither side makes a good argument, the side with the BOP loses the debate.

FF (I assume this is forfeit)?
It's supposed to mean "full forfeit" meaning that one side forfeited all rounds or all except the first. Sometimes it's used to mean just "forfeit."

Are there any more words?

Beats me, I've never heard that one.

If I am unable to fit all my writing due to character limit in my argument, what should I do? I see some people do it in the next round, how should I state that so the judges know?

A big part of debate is crafting your arguments to fit the space. This is a very important general skill, because people don't want to read volumes to get a short message. The first step is to cut dead wood out of of your write. Delete "the fact that," "the preponderance of evidence says that," and similar sentences. Read The Elements of Style by Strunk & White, a very short book that gives the drill.

Use tinyurl.com to squeeze long URLs into short ones. Don't reference anything that is fairly common knowledge; you can add a reference if challenged.

Remember that if your opponent makes a claim without proof, you can deny it without proof. Don't write long refutations of short claims.

After that, you should think about reducing the number of claims you are making. Just present the best stuff. In a four round debate you can make new claims in R3.

If my opponent forfeits, what can I do?

Pile on with additional arguments and refutations. It's not your fault your opponent didn't respond. If you have nothing more to say, don't forfeit. Say, "arguments are continued" or something like that.

Or, if they attempt to troll?

Point out that your opponent is trolling, and explain that what he is saying is unresponsive, personal attacks, or irrelevant. Never lose your temper and respond in kind. Point out what arguments your opponent has not rebutted.

Should I always state rules in round one or if I don't, does that mean any "general" rules apply?

Since most of the rules are not written down, you should state them. If you are dealing with an experienced debater, you can omit stating some of the rules. If you want the first round for acceptance only, you have to say that.
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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1/6/2014 3:15:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Use tinyurl.com to squeeze long URLs into short ones.

Ew please no, I know your the best debater on this site and all but that is very repulsive to me.

If someone does that I dock them source points, because I'm not clicking on each source just to see where it came from.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
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Silhouette
Posts: 8
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1/7/2014 9:52:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
@RoyLatham

Ah, I understand now, thank you very much (I hear of a tipping system, I really wish it was inplanted in place so I can tip you and everyone else who helped). This may be a silly question but what exactly is "dropping a argument?".

@GarretKadeDupre
I slightly agree on that one, TinyUrl links just seem a bit fishy to me as they occasionally hide malicious software. However, it is a interesting technique. Thanks for stating your thoughts :)
Fox-McCloud
Posts: 158
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1/7/2014 10:12:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/6/2014 12:41:19 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 1/6/2014 3:34:39 AM, Silhouette wrote:
Extend all arguments

This means "I haven't dropped any of my arguments, I'm waiting for them to be answered."

BOP

Burden of proof; the debater with the burden of proof must make a convincing case for his position, otherwise it fails. If neither side makes a good argument, the side with the BOP loses the debate.

FF (I assume this is forfeit)?
It's supposed to mean "full forfeit" meaning that one side forfeited all rounds or all except the first. Sometimes it's used to mean just "forfeit."

Are there any more words?

Beats me, I've never heard that one.

Haha, lol, I think this was supposed to be a real question...


If I am unable to fit all my writing due to character limit in my argument, what should I do? I see some people do it in the next round, how should I state that so the judges know?

A big part of debate is crafting your arguments to fit the space. This is a very important general skill, because people don't want to read volumes to get a short message. The first step is to cut dead wood out of of your write. Delete "the fact that," "the preponderance of evidence says that," and similar sentences. Read The Elements of Style by Strunk & White, a very short book that gives the drill.

Use tinyurl.com to squeeze long URLs into short ones. Don't reference anything that is fairly common knowledge; you can add a reference if challenged.

Remember that if your opponent makes a claim without proof, you can deny it without proof. Don't write long refutations of short claims.

After that, you should think about reducing the number of claims you are making. Just present the best stuff. In a four round debate you can make new claims in R3.

If my opponent forfeits, what can I do?

Pile on with additional arguments and refutations. It's not your fault your opponent didn't respond. If you have nothing more to say, don't forfeit. Say, "arguments are continued" or something like that.

Or, if they attempt to troll?

Point out that your opponent is trolling, and explain that what he is saying is unresponsive, personal attacks, or irrelevant. Never lose your temper and respond in kind. Point out what arguments your opponent has not rebutted.

Should I always state rules in round one or if I don't, does that mean any "general" rules apply?

Since most of the rules are not written down, you should state them. If you are dealing with an experienced debater, you can omit stating some of the rules. If you want the first round for acceptance only, you have to say that.
Abortion Is Generally Morally Reprehensible: http://www.debate.org...

The instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves - Archibald Alison

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RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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1/7/2014 12:36:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/6/2014 3:15:03 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Use tinyurl.com to squeeze long URLs into short ones.

Ew please no, I know your the best debater on this site and all but that is very repulsive to me.

If someone does that I dock them source points, because I'm not clicking on each source just to see where it came from.

You can't see much of the URL anyway, because DDO only shows the first few characters of the link. I've never once encountered a malicious link in a debate, because that would likely get the debater banned.

TinyURL is used almost universally by the good debaters on the site. Full URLs can ramble on for two or three lines.
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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1/7/2014 12:58:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/7/2014 12:36:01 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 1/6/2014 3:15:03 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Use tinyurl.com to squeeze long URLs into short ones.

Ew please no, I know your the best debater on this site and all but that is very repulsive to me.

If someone does that I dock them source points, because I'm not clicking on each source just to see where it came from.

You can't see much of the URL anyway, because DDO only shows the first few characters of the link. I've never once encountered a malicious link in a debate, because that would likely get the debater banned.

TinyURL is used almost universally by the good debaters on the site. Full URLs can ramble on for two or three lines.

Debate.org hides most of it, but it still lets me check if it ends in .gov or .edu or see if it's a blog post all without actually clicking on it.

Tinyurl doesn't.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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1/7/2014 1:02:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/7/2014 12:58:20 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
Debate.org hides most of it, but it still lets me check if it ends in .gov or .edu or see if it's a blog post all without actually clicking on it.

Tinyurl doesn't.

Blog posts are often valid because they often cite other sources, and they can provide the added value of providing graphs or valid summaries. Government sources are often misused because debaters don't understand the statistics. University sources are full of ideological rants. Judging source validity from the URL doesn't work.
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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1/7/2014 2:10:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If the blog post cites other sources than I think those should be cited directly
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...