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How do I vote?

GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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1/1/2014 11:38:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What's a good guideline for voting? Like a formula I could look at that would reduce bias from an already held position....
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Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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1/2/2014 12:14:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would explain to you how to vote, but it's actually a lot harder to explain than I initially realized when my first attempt at writing a reply was "Read the debate then you should know how to vote". And it doesn't help that there are more philosophies behind voting than I care to recall. At least on here a lot of the times the winner is obvious but there are still a lot of close debates so I guess a few helpful tips on good voting, at least from my point of view...

- Before you read the round, forget everything you know about that debate. Forget any information you know about the topic, who's debating, who's defending what side, everything. Just read the debate from a completely uneducated stand-point. It's the debater's job to explain things to you clearly, not your job to come to the debate understanding everything they're talking about.

- Only evaluate things that were said in the round. If I make an argument that goes unrefuted, then no matter how dumb or blatantly false the argument is you ought accept the argument as fact. If you bring in your outside knowledge to the debate and it influences the debate, the debate loses any kind of integrity that it had before you voted. It ceases to become a competition between two different people, but rather one debater against the other debater plus a voter who they can't respond to. It's not the judge's responsibility to say what is true and what isn't. That's the debater's job.

What I feel like a lot of people fail to realize is that there's a difference between a discussion and a debate: in a discussion obviously truth comes first. But in debate that's not necessarily the case. Obviously true arguments are solid arguments to make, but at the end of the day the winner is the debater who did a better job debating the resolution, not which side was proven to be true. No matter how amazing of a debater I am and how credible my arguments are, my arguments can always be wrong. We choose a winner in a debate not because they proved the side they were on was true, but because they did a better job debating overall.

Half the time I'm doing a debate or voting on a debate, I don't even bother to look at the sources. Why? Because it doesn't really matter where the information comes from, but whether or not he's winning the argument. If he's not winning the argument checking the source is pointless because you're not weighing the argument. And if he is winning the argument looking at the source doesn't change anything because you're already accepting it as fact, regardless of where it comes from.

- The only other thing I can think of is just know how certain arguments function in relation to other arguments and the debate itself. This can't really be learned any other way than getting out there and debating with different people over different topics with different arguments, but it's crucial. There's a difference between a defensive argument and an offensive argument, and they impact rounds in different ways. Learning to spot these and evaluate accordingly is key to figuring out exactly how the debate went down.

Time for the fun, cliche moment though. The real key to voting better? Vote. The more debates you read and judge, the more perceptive you are and the better you become.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/2/2014 12:52:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
By voting.
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/2/2014 12:53:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Or get all detailed about it that's cool too.
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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1/2/2014 12:58:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/2/2014 12:53:17 AM, 16kadams wrote:
Or get all detailed about it that's cool too.

Talk about someone I haven't seen in forever.
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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/2/2014 12:59:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/2/2014 12:58:09 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/2/2014 12:53:17 AM, 16kadams wrote:
Or get all detailed about it that's cool too.

Talk about someone I haven't seen in forever.

Jesus?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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1/2/2014 1:00:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/2/2014 12:59:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/2/2014 12:58:09 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/2/2014 12:53:17 AM, 16kadams wrote:
Or get all detailed about it that's cool too.

Talk about someone I haven't seen in forever.

Jesus?

Damm you and your cleverness.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/2/2014 1:03:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/2/2014 1:00:59 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/2/2014 12:59:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/2/2014 12:58:09 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/2/2014 12:53:17 AM, 16kadams wrote:
Or get all detailed about it that's cool too.

Talk about someone I haven't seen in forever.

Jesus?

Damm you and your cleverness.

Haha noob Jesus died for my clever sins. I can't be damned
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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1/2/2014 1:09:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/2/2014 1:03:59 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/2/2014 1:00:59 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/2/2014 12:59:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/2/2014 12:58:09 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/2/2014 12:53:17 AM, 16kadams wrote:
Or get all detailed about it that's cool too.

Talk about someone I haven't seen in forever.

Jesus?

Damm you and your cleverness.

Haha noob Jesus died for my clever sins. I can't be damned

Who raised you from the dead? Welcome back 16k. :)
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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1/2/2014 1:10:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/2/2014 1:09:01 AM, TUF wrote:
At 1/2/2014 1:03:59 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/2/2014 1:00:59 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/2/2014 12:59:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 1/2/2014 12:58:09 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/2/2014 12:53:17 AM, 16kadams wrote:
Or get all detailed about it that's cool too.

Talk about someone I haven't seen in forever.

Jesus?

Damm you and your cleverness.

Haha noob Jesus died for my clever sins. I can't be damned

Who raised you from the dead? Welcome back 16k. :)

Muhammad. He rose from a place he never visited so I can rise like that too. Yolo

And hi
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
KingDebater
Posts: 687
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1/2/2014 9:50:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/1/2014 11:38:52 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
What's a good guideline for voting? Like a formula I could look at that would reduce bias from an already held position....
It's too hard learning how to vote. Just votebomb all the time.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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1/2/2014 11:23:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't agree that a voter should approach the debate as if he knows nothing about the subject. That rule leads to many good debates being incomprehensible because they cannot be self-contained, to not recognizing that extraordinary claims require ordinary proof, and to what I call "technical voting" in which silly arguments not specifically refuted determine the winner.

I think voting starts with asking if Pro (assuming Pro has the burden of proof) made the case, given what you know about the subject. For example, you know the earth is round and you know the basics of science. A debater arguing "The Earth is Flat" can then still win the debate if his opponent fails to cite the facts and laws of physics that prove the earth is round. Saying "it's ridiculous" and "Everybody knows ..." doesn't cut it. However, "Coriolis force is in opposite directions in the northern and southern hemispheres." seems to me to be instantly fatal to flat earth theory.

A voter who knows the subject of debate should be better able to judge if the correct arguments were made in the debate to win.

Noob debates are often difficult to judge because both debaters are off track, so you have to choose who was closer. Keep in mind that even poor evidence is better than no evidence, and that the burden of proof weighs against (usually) Pro.