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Upcoming Debate.org Update

Debate.org_Official
Posts: 93
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1/17/2014 4:14:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This Wednesday we will be rolling out an update to Debate.org that will result in a few noticeable changes to the site. We will be providing specific details about the release on the day of, but there is one change that we want to bring to your attention ahead of the update.

The most noticeable change for members in this release is that we will now be displaying advertisements to members in the same way as we currently do to non-members.

When we first acquired Debate.org, our goal was to grow it to become the web"s leading debate website online, where people from everywhere could come and share their opinion on a wide range of topics. In the past 3-4 years, the site has seen massive growth in terms of membership, traffic, and content creation.

The growth for Debate.org has been very exciting and we are extremely thankful to all of our members who have contributed to that growth. Unfortunately, the reality is that with growth also comes increased costs.

The fundamental issue that is pushing us to display ads to members is simply this; the costs to run the website and develop new features require a mechanism to generate revenue to support those measures. We had made assertions in the past that it was not our goal to show members advertisements and we 100% meant those statements when they were made. However, we are in a situation where the costs are exceeding the revenue that we receive from the site.

We understand that a number of you will not agree with this decision, some of you may even be angry. Despite that, in order for us as a business to move forward and devote resources to a site that we think still has a tremendous amount of potential for additional growth, we have to have a stable method in place to support our efforts.

The ad placements that we have on the site are not meant to be disruptive. We do not have any pop-ups, expandables, or any ads that play audio upon visiting a page. Our goal isn't for the ads to dominate the page, but to be as minimally disruptive as possible.

Our goal for Debate.org today remains the same as when we acquired it; to grow it to become the web"s leading debate community. This update is a necessary step in order for us to do so. We understand that this may be perceived as a shift for many Debate.org members and as such, we wanted to be as transparent as possible about our intentions. We appreciate the community and look forward to your ongoing feedback to help improve the site.

Thanks,

The Debate.org Team
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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1/17/2014 4:33:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If it means better and faster updates in the future, I am all for it.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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1/17/2014 4:33:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If it means better and faster updates in the future, I am all for it.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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1/17/2014 4:33:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If it means better and faster updates in the future, I am all for it.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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1/17/2014 4:34:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't have a problem with it. Contrary to popular belief, "taint nothing free in this world." If your not paying for it, someone else is. Better the advertisers incur the expenses of running the site than me.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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1/17/2014 4:35:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 4:34:06 PM, sadolite wrote:
I don't have a problem with it. Contrary to popular belief, "taint nothing free in this world." If your not paying for it, someone else is. Better the advertisers incur the expenses of running the site than me.

+ if you have google chrome and adblock, this probably won't effect you much.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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1/17/2014 4:41:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 4:35:07 PM, TUF wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:34:06 PM, sadolite wrote:
I don't have a problem with it. Contrary to popular belief, "taint nothing free in this world." If your not paying for it, someone else is. Better the advertisers incur the expenses of running the site than me.

+ if you have google chrome and adblock, this probably won't effect you much.

Either way, Thank god for advertising
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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1/17/2014 4:43:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have adblock plus. I forgot ads are even on DDO.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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1/17/2014 4:45:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm hoping for team debates this update.

*fingers crossed*
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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1/17/2014 6:21:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 4:34:06 PM, sadolite wrote:
I don't have a problem with it. Contrary to popular belief, "taint nothing free in this world." If your not paying for it, someone else is. Better the advertisers incur the expenses of running the site than me.

I agree with this, regarding advertisements.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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1/17/2014 6:52:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
To state the obvious, I don't know what the update is other than what is stated here. But I want to be clear that advertisements are something I understand, something that I knew would eventually become necessary and something I don't begrudge Juggle for imposing unless the ads become ostentatious (meaning that they occupy more than 30% of total layout space on the pages that users view) -which would be a disservice both to DDO and to the advertisements.

What I do know is that in the past, updates have been unnecessary, and have come at the expense of site interface. Most of the new members will not even be able to relate to what I'm saying, because they don't remember when DDO was blue and not orange and dark grey. What I hope is that among these new updates, that the notification feature for messages sent will actually reflect the content only of the last message and not have previous messages' content reflected in the drop-down information tab rather than forum notifications. I don't know if that was an intentional thing or the result of shoddy site coding, but I hope it's fixed. I would like to see the color not be orange and dark grey, and I would like the banner(s) on the top and bottom to be reduced to no greater than 75 pixels in height. That is what Facebook, the New York Times, and virtually all other sites that use this basic layout have -and it works. The logo needs to shrink to accommodate.

The best place, and I know this may already the plan, to display ads is in the sidebar, not in the header of any other page but the main page. I know that I personally would, however, far prefer to see advertisements on the main page rather than than the opinion or polls section displayed at the size that they are now. Aesthetically, the current main page display is gaudy and overly flamboyant. But again, that is an issue secondary to the color scheme.

One thing I'd be curious to know is how many resources were allocated to the research feature. I don't even know where the link is, but I remember wondering to myself why that was even created, when something far superior to it (in style and function) and which is more accessible (i.e. Google) already exists. If the reason that displaying advertisements to members is to offer updates like that, then the objective should not be only to increase revenue, but rather to more prudently allocate resources on things which are more likely to produce better results.

Another thing I'd be curious about is something that I've touched on in the past, which has never been answered. A once prominent member came to Juggle's defense the last time I asked it, and with little depth or substance. The question I would ask directly to every member of Juggle's staff is this:

"What, fundamentally, do you want this site to be?"

Do you want it to be the best debate site it can be, or do you want it to be a whole lot of different, inferior things that interest people for a short term but fails to keep them coming back? Wanting DDO to be the former means that in the long run, DDO will be more sustainably able to generate revenue because even if it may draw fewer people in on the forefront, it will keep those people here longer because the quality of the products not diluted to accommodate competing site visions. Wanting DDO to be the latter will result in the site drawing a lot of people in on the short term, but will result in those members not coming back.

I'm not saying that Juggle shouldn't do other things, like have the opinion and polls section, but I am absolutely saying that they need to be their own site. Opinion.org, polls.org, or something like that. My guess is that those domains are already claimed and they might be expensive, but whatever the sites are called, they need to be their own sites even if they use the same basic site template as DDO does. The reason is because the kind of person that comes to DDO seeking to debate is an entirely different person than one who comes to only post a 1k or so long opinion about a topic that they most likely know nothing about, or who wants to ask a whole bunch of people eager to opine about stuff, what they think about stuff. But, after all, that gets to the core of the site disconnect: the site can't decide what it wants to be, and the site doesn't understand the people who access it, because they have no conniption of why those people are here to begin with.

The reason why displaying ads to members now is a good idea is because we, especially in the forums, are active and most of us will consistently keep coming back unless it gets to a point where members who come for reasons other than hard, substantive debating so vastly outnumber those people on here who are seriously committed to what this site's first, most basic, namesake function was. So, when "improvements" come at the expense of actual, substantive debating Juggle is actually hurting itself in the long run.

My guess is that precisely no one in a position to do anything will take what I'm saying seriously, because they (1) think they know best, and (2) therefore are going to discount anything that conflicts with that because I'm not a site designer, I'm not a Juggle employee and I'm especially not on the site design/improvement team, or whatever outfit does that at Juggle. But, that's at least the principle that's been reflected in past site "improvements" before. To the extent that this sort of "improvement" continues, I think that DDO's days are numbered because it will fail to monetize to the extent that Juggle thought it would when they bought it from Phil, or whoever owned it before. Then, the site will become a dead-end project that everyone will wonder what happened or will just callously disregard as the result of the nature of the infotech industry.

I mean, there is a very good reason why the overwhelming majority of tech start-ups fail... and this is a mistake I'd like to see not made here because that consequence affects me, and every other member who posts in this forum. It won't affect me in the same way that it will affect Juggle's shareholders, but for different reasons the forum members and Juggle have a shared interest in DDO's success. The way to bring that to fruition is not to make bad decisions that make the site into anything other than the best debating site on the web.
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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1/17/2014 7:41:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am disappointed in this development. However, I understand that it may be financially necessary to maintain the site. Yet, I hope Juggle will actively look for other ways to bring in revenue, so that adds do not become a way of life for members.
Live Long and Prosper

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"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/17/2014 9:07:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
While I know the ads will likely be based purely on what makes the most revenue (and since the vast majority of DDO'ers are young males (14 - 25 years old) they will likely be for video games or something), it would be nice if they were forums specific. So the ads in the Sports section would be for ESPN, Foxsports, etc and the ads in the Politics sections would be for the Green Party, Reform party, etc.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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1/17/2014 10:44:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Bring back the good ol' DDO blue? I miss it.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

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Bullish
Posts: 3,527
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1/17/2014 11:44:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Please don't show the League if Angles Dead or Alive ads.

You guys have an awesome domain name.

I'm assuming the .org part doesn't mean what it used to?
0x5f3759df
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/18/2014 2:53:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 11:55:24 PM, rross wrote:
When I'm offline on this site I always see ads for different types of horny-looking, available women. Ugh. I really hate those ads.

It sounds like you have adware on your device. You shouldn't be seeing those things...and those ads are probably targeted based upon your search history, lol.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
rross
Posts: 2,772
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1/18/2014 3:08:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 2:53:01 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 11:55:24 PM, rross wrote:
When I'm offline on this site I always see ads for different types of horny-looking, available women. Ugh. I really hate those ads.

It sounds like you have adware on your device. You shouldn't be seeing those things...and those ads are probably targeted based upon your search history, lol.

-_-
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/18/2014 3:10:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 3:08:41 AM, rross wrote:
At 1/18/2014 2:53:01 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 11:55:24 PM, rross wrote:
When I'm offline on this site I always see ads for different types of horny-looking, available women. Ugh. I really hate those ads.

It sounds like you have adware on your device. You shouldn't be seeing those things...and those ads are probably targeted based upon your search history, lol.

-_-

lol, to be fair, some forms of adware may be just malicious porn-type stuff. Sorry about that.

Most of the adware I had to remove from my system wasn't though...it was all based upon whatever I was searching for at the time.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
rross
Posts: 2,772
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1/18/2014 4:20:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 3:10:37 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/18/2014 3:08:41 AM, rross wrote:
At 1/18/2014 2:53:01 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 11:55:24 PM, rross wrote:
When I'm offline on this site I always see ads for different types of horny-looking, available women. Ugh. I really hate those ads.

It sounds like you have adware on your device. You shouldn't be seeing those things...and those ads are probably targeted based upon your search history, lol.

-_-

lol, to be fair, some forms of adware may be just malicious porn-type stuff. Sorry about that.

Most of the adware I had to remove from my system wasn't though...it was all based upon whatever I was searching for at the time.

You're right. I did a clean up, and those ads have gone. I get normal ads now.

Sorry for blaming DDO for them. It's just that I only ever saw them before I logged in here...

So how do you find out where they came from?
birdlandmemories
Posts: 4,140
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1/18/2014 8:43:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 9:07:22 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
While I know the ads will likely be based purely on what makes the most revenue (and since the vast majority of DDO'ers are young males (14 - 25 years old) they will likely be for video games or something), it would be nice if they were forums specific. So the ads in the Sports section would be for ESPN, Foxsports, etc and the ads in the Politics sections would be for the Green Party, Reform party, etc.

Agreed. One problem with that, what ads would go in the misc and funny sections?
Ashton
NiqashMotawadi3
Posts: 1,895
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1/18/2014 10:08:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
That wouldn't make make much difference to me as I browse DDO using a command-line terminal without any support for pictures or Flash, and with an effective plugin that strips out Google Ads and any paragraph with the word "Featherstonhaugh." The worst part is that my paragraph itself is going to disappear when I post it because of that feature.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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1/18/2014 10:49:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 4:20:31 AM, rross wrote:
At 1/18/2014 3:10:37 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/18/2014 3:08:41 AM, rross wrote:
At 1/18/2014 2:53:01 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 11:55:24 PM, rross wrote:
When I'm offline on this site I always see ads for different types of horny-looking, available women. Ugh. I really hate those ads.

It sounds like you have adware on your device. You shouldn't be seeing those things...and those ads are probably targeted based upon your search history, lol.

-_-

lol, to be fair, some forms of adware may be just malicious porn-type stuff. Sorry about that.

Most of the adware I had to remove from my system wasn't though...it was all based upon whatever I was searching for at the time.

You're right. I did a clean up, and those ads have gone. I get normal ads now.

Sorry for blaming DDO for them. It's just that I only ever saw them before I logged in here...

So how do you find out where they came from?

I don't know, but I can gather that the some website that was part of the research you may have been doing for the various things you debated here was responsible somewhere down the line.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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1/18/2014 11:02:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 8:43:58 AM, birdlandmemories wrote:
At 1/17/2014 9:07:22 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
While I know the ads will likely be based purely on what makes the most revenue (and since the vast majority of DDO'ers are young males (14 - 25 years old) they will likely be for video games or something), it would be nice if they were forums specific. So the ads in the Sports section would be for ESPN, Foxsports, etc and the ads in the Politics sections would be for the Green Party, Reform party, etc.

Agreed. One problem with that, what ads would go in the misc and funny sections?

Uhhh, miscellaneous and humorous ones. Duh.
My work here is, finally, done.
birdlandmemories
Posts: 4,140
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1/18/2014 11:42:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 11:02:07 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 1/18/2014 8:43:58 AM, birdlandmemories wrote:
Agreed. One problem with that, what ads would go in the misc and funny sections?

Uhhh, miscellaneous and humorous ones. Duh.

Humorous though, is an opinion. so not everyone will find those ads funny.
Ashton
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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1/18/2014 1:42:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 2:53:01 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 11:55:24 PM, rross wrote:
When I'm offline on this site I always see ads for different types of horny-looking, available women. Ugh. I really hate those ads.

It sounds like you have adware on your device. You shouldn't be seeing those things...and those ads are probably targeted based upon your search history, lol.

0.0
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227