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There should be no ban in DDO

Krazzy_Player
Posts: 552
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2/5/2014 4:15:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Recently I'm noticing too many temporary ban in DDO. Temp ban on members may be for many reasons but certainly it doesn't feel right. People create an account just for some fun and communication with their friends and build their network. I agree we should follow rules of a particular site we sign up but ban is not the solution I guess. Temporary ban or any kind of ban creates a negative impact on members and on site. Members may even loose interest on this site. Instead there should be an other alternative for ban. Since Imabench, Stalin and some members are well known users of this site imposing ban, "Is it really necessary?
Aleksandr
Posts: 23
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2/5/2014 4:31:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
This bans are probably related to the debate "The debate.org site rules should be more strictly enforced"

http://www.debate.org...

Tense things are happening in Debate.Org. It is worrying.
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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2/5/2014 7:21:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
What is your suggested alternative?
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/5/2014 9:34:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would respectfully disagree. There are people that do not follow the rules and create an extremely hostile environment. These people chase away far more members than bans might. Let me also say that I am not referring to any particular person or member when I typed this.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Tophatdoc
Posts: 534
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2/5/2014 12:34:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
DDO is a privately run website. Shouldn't DDO be able to do as they wish pertaining to whom they wish to ban?
"Don't click on my profile. Don't send me friend requests. Don't read my debates. There are many interesting people on DDO. Find one of them. Go find someone exciting and loquacious. Go click on their profile. Go send them friend requests. Go read their debates. Leave me alone." -Tophatdoc
Adam2
Posts: 1,024
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2/5/2014 3:56:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Disagree. I agree that many come here and have fun, but consider this: someone is harassing you or your friends and saying mean things, or just harassing or bothering you. Would you want him/her to go unpunished? I don't think so. We have to have bans to enforce order here.
Adam2
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2/5/2014 3:56:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 12:34:22 PM, Tophatdoc wrote:
DDO is a privately run website. Shouldn't DDO be able to do as they wish pertaining to whom they wish to ban?

Exactly
Adam2
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2/5/2014 3:56:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 9:34:36 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I would respectfully disagree. There are people that do not follow the rules and create an extremely hostile environment. These people chase away far more members than bans might. Let me also say that I am not referring to any particular person or member when I typed this.

100%.
Adam2
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2/5/2014 3:56:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 6:59:36 AM, XLAV wrote:
Banning is necessary to enforce order in DDO and in other sites in general. Without banning, there will be chaos.

Absolutely
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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2/5/2014 4:00:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 4:15:46 AM, Krazzy_Player wrote:
Recently I'm noticing too many temporary ban in DDO. Temp ban on members may be for many reasons but certainly it doesn't feel right. People create an account just for some fun and communication with their friends and build their network. I agree we should follow rules of a particular site we sign up but ban is not the solution I guess. Temporary ban or any kind of ban creates a negative impact on members and on site. Members may even loose interest on this site. Instead there should be an other alternative for ban. Since Imabench, Stalin and some members are well known users of this site imposing ban, "Is it really necessary?

it really doesn't have a negative impact most of the members who have gotten a temp ban have taken it like a wake up call and checked themselves
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Krazzy_Player
Posts: 552
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2/5/2014 10:03:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 9:34:36 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I would respectfully disagree. There are people that do not follow the rules and create an extremely hostile environment. These people chase away far more members than bans might. Let me also say that I am not referring to any particular person or member when I typed this.

Even other Social Networking sites like Facebook has similar problems but I've never heard Facebook imposing ban for its members. Some better alternative which suits best must be carried on.
Ore_Ele
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2/5/2014 10:07:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 10:03:15 PM, Krazzy_Player wrote:
At 2/5/2014 9:34:36 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I would respectfully disagree. There are people that do not follow the rules and create an extremely hostile environment. These people chase away far more members than bans might. Let me also say that I am not referring to any particular person or member when I typed this.

Even other Social Networking sites like Facebook has similar problems but I've never heard Facebook imposing ban for its members. Some better alternative which suits best must be carried on.

You can be banned from facebook for violating the rules.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
airmax1227
Posts: 13,244
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2/5/2014 10:18:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 4:15:46 AM, Krazzy_Player wrote:
Recently I'm noticing too many temporary ban in DDO. Temp ban on members may be for many reasons but certainly it doesn't feel right. People create an account just for some fun and communication with their friends and build their network. I agree we should follow rules of a particular site we sign up but ban is not the solution I guess. Temporary ban or any kind of ban creates a negative impact on members and on site. Members may even loose interest on this site. Instead there should be an other alternative for ban. Since Imabench, Stalin and some members are well known users of this site imposing ban, "Is it really necessary?

I've actually gotten more complaints lately on my lax approach than of being too strict, so this is an interesting post. It probably goes without saying that I feel the temp-bans are necessary and serve a greater purpose than just punishment. So I would say that it is necessary.

I am however interested in any alternative ideas that you might have. In the past year or so certain steps I've taken have limited the amount of bans necessary (serial votebombers now don't have to be banned for example) but for repeated conduct violations I'm not sure what else there is that can be done. The threat of one being removed from the site, first temporarily, and then after enough repeated offenses permanently, seems to have proven to be the only method of deterrence.

Is there any other method that you think might work?
Debate.org Moderator
Krazzy_Player
Posts: 552
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2/5/2014 10:20:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 7:21:44 AM, Ragnar wrote:
What is your suggested alternative?
There is a block option I guess. Members who do not like other member certainly can block them. However, currently I do not know which is the best suitable alternative and qualified technicians can come up with an idea by Research and impose the alternative instead of Ban.
DudeStop
Posts: 1,278
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2/5/2014 10:24:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 10:18:24 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 2/5/2014 4:15:46 AM, Krazzy_Player wrote:
Recently I'm noticing too many temporary ban in DDO. Temp ban on members may be for many reasons but certainly it doesn't feel right. People create an account just for some fun and communication with their friends and build their network. I agree we should follow rules of a particular site we sign up but ban is not the solution I guess. Temporary ban or any kind of ban creates a negative impact on members and on site. Members may even loose interest on this site. Instead there should be an other alternative for ban. Since Imabench, Stalin and some members are well known users of this site imposing ban, "Is it really necessary?

I've actually gotten more complaints lately on my lax approach than of being too strict, so this is an interesting post. It probably goes without saying that I feel the temp-bans are necessary and serve a greater purpose than just punishment. So I would say that it is necessary.

I am however interested in any alternative ideas that you might have. In the past year or so certain steps I've taken have limited the amount of bans necessary (serial votebombers now don't have to be banned for example) but for repeated conduct violations I'm not sure what else there is that can be done. The threat of one being removed from the site, first temporarily, and then after enough repeated offenses permanently, seems to have proven to be the only method of deterrence.

Is there any other method that you think might work?

Maybe you could allow them to create debates but not post in forums for a week etc. Eliminate the source of the problem.

In example:

I troll and tell people (Remind people) his no one loves them.

You decide to take away my privileges to post in forums for a couple (___Insert official time___) .

Similar idea to taking voting privileges away for a while...
airmax1227
Posts: 13,244
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2/5/2014 10:25:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 10:20:19 PM, Krazzy_Player wrote:
At 2/5/2014 7:21:44 AM, Ragnar wrote:
What is your suggested alternative?
There is a block option I guess. Members who do not like other member certainly can block them. However, currently I do not know which is the best suitable alternative and qualified technicians can come up with an idea by Research and impose the alternative instead of Ban.

That would only solve one issue, the issue of one member who is harassing another member via PM. In those cases I actually have come up with methods that preempts a ban and that is, first, warning the member about their conduct, and secondly if it is a mutual issue of two member's inability to get along with each other, instituting restraining orders between those members so they don't communicate at all with each other.

However, the only way those can be enforced is through the threat of a temp/perm ban.
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Magic8000
Posts: 975
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2/5/2014 10:27:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 7:21:44 AM, Ragnar wrote:
What is your suggested alternative?

F*cking all out anarchy!!! Woooo!
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

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airmax1227
Posts: 13,244
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2/5/2014 10:33:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 10:24:58 PM, DudeStop wrote:
At 2/5/2014 10:18:24 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 2/5/2014 4:15:46 AM, Krazzy_Player wrote:
Recently I'm noticing too many temporary ban in DDO. Temp ban on members may be for many reasons but certainly it doesn't feel right. People create an account just for some fun and communication with their friends and build their network. I agree we should follow rules of a particular site we sign up but ban is not the solution I guess. Temporary ban or any kind of ban creates a negative impact on members and on site. Members may even loose interest on this site. Instead there should be an other alternative for ban. Since Imabench, Stalin and some members are well known users of this site imposing ban, "Is it really necessary?

I've actually gotten more complaints lately on my lax approach than of being too strict, so this is an interesting post. It probably goes without saying that I feel the temp-bans are necessary and serve a greater purpose than just punishment. So I would say that it is necessary.

I am however interested in any alternative ideas that you might have. In the past year or so certain steps I've taken have limited the amount of bans necessary (serial votebombers now don't have to be banned for example) but for repeated conduct violations I'm not sure what else there is that can be done. The threat of one being removed from the site, first temporarily, and then after enough repeated offenses permanently, seems to have proven to be the only method of deterrence.

Is there any other method that you think might work?

Maybe you could allow them to create debates but not post in forums for a week etc. Eliminate the source of the problem.

In example:

I troll and tell people (Remind people) his no one loves them.

You decide to take away my privileges to post in forums for a couple (___Insert official time___) .

Similar idea to taking voting privileges away for a while...

I suppose this could work as progressively getting to harsher punishments for those not abiding by the rules and that might be fine. Though the only way to enforce the arrangement of the individual not posting in the forums, would again, be the threat of a temp/perm ban. (or a greater loss of privileges and that might be worth considering - though it would require a lot of keeping track of the various privileges lost among the many members who have lost them. And that might be ok, if it worked as enough of a deterrent.)

In essence then, I'm not sure how a basic warning regarding conduct shouldn't equate to the same thing as losing forum posting privileges, though it might make the message more clear, so it might be worth trying.

I've also considered public apologies for appropriate offenses, but I'm wary of what could be considered essentially as embarrassing someone as a punishment.

So I think your idea might work if the offense was forum posting related. I do like the idea of the punishment fitting the crime, so it may be worth considering in some cases.
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Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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2/6/2014 1:40:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 10:20:19 PM, Krazzy_Player wrote:
At 2/5/2014 7:21:44 AM, Ragnar wrote:
What is your suggested alternative?
There is a block option I guess. Members who do not like other member certainly can block them. However, currently I do not know which is the best suitable alternative and qualified technicians can come up with an idea by Research and impose the alternative instead of Ban.

You do get that banning is not the first option explored? Even a short term one, is getting near to being the last resort.

Blocking does not work against stalkers, as they can still follow you into forum threads and unrelated debates (some even brag about how they can get away with it).
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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2/6/2014 1:55:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Basically every site on the internet has trolls, who want to destroy or damage the site for their own amusement. If you don't allow moderators to ban trolls, you degrade the quality of any open-platform internet site.

Bans only get protested on here when certain popular users get banned. This same debate happened over izbo's ban. It seems silly to establish a policy that if you have no supporters, it's okay to ban you, but if you have a few vocal friends on DDO, you can't get banned no matter how bad your conduct.

The only anti-banning argument is that this site is meant for opposing viewpoints. But no one has ever been banned for merely expressing an opposing point of view.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Linkish1O2
Posts: 2,003
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2/6/2014 1:58:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 9:34:36 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I would respectfully disagree. There are people that do not follow the rules and create an extremely hostile environment. These people chase away far more members than bans might. Let me also say that I am not referring to any particular person or member when I typed this.

seconded.
"I am a mystery and to unlock the mystery at my core, one must simply embrace slendermans hug with no fear."- me

"I hearby declare myself a phantom in the darkness."-me
Linkish1O2
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2/6/2014 2:02:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 10:25:45 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 2/5/2014 10:20:19 PM, Krazzy_Player wrote:
At 2/5/2014 7:21:44 AM, Ragnar wrote:
What is your suggested alternative?
There is a block option I guess. Members who do not like other member certainly can block them. However, currently I do not know which is the best suitable alternative and qualified technicians can come up with an idea by Research and impose the alternative instead of Ban.

That would only solve one issue, the issue of one member who is harassing another member via PM. In those cases I actually have come up with methods that preempts a ban and that is, first, warning the member about their conduct, and secondly if it is a mutual issue of two member's inability to get along with each other, instituting restraining orders between those members so they don't communicate at all with each other.

However, the only way those can be enforced is through the threat of a temp/perm ban.

we should have more of a mute button, once clicked, whoever was bothering you simply dissapears, no debates from them, cant see comments from them, cant see their forum posts, or forums, it would be like they where never on the site at all for you, problem solved.
"I am a mystery and to unlock the mystery at my core, one must simply embrace slendermans hug with no fear."- me

"I hearby declare myself a phantom in the darkness."-me
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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2/6/2014 2:32:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/6/2014 2:02:36 AM, Linkish1O2 wrote:
we should have more of a mute button, once clicked, whoever was bothering you simply dissapears, no debates from them, cant see comments from them, cant see their forum posts, or forums, it would be like they where never on the site at all for you, problem solved.

User A "mutes" user B. User B continues to stalk their forum posts, spreading lies, etc.. On the forums user C replies to something user B said in a forum started by user A, user A now sees a fragment of what user B is saying about user A (via the quote, since they can't see the actual posts)... Other than leave the site, what should user A do at this point? Heck would should the staff do about this stalker?
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
Linkish1O2
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2/6/2014 10:21:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/6/2014 2:32:30 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/6/2014 2:02:36 AM, Linkish1O2 wrote:
we should have more of a mute button, once clicked, whoever was bothering you simply dissapears, no debates from them, cant see comments from them, cant see their forum posts, or forums, it would be like they where never on the site at all for you, problem solved.

User A "mutes" user B. User B continues to stalk their forum posts, spreading lies, etc.. On the forums user C replies to something user B said in a forum started by user A, user A now sees a fragment of what user B is saying about user A (via the quote, since they can't see the actual posts)... Other than leave the site, what should user A do at this point? Heck would should the staff do about this stalker?

I never argued against a nice temp ban.
"I am a mystery and to unlock the mystery at my core, one must simply embrace slendermans hug with no fear."- me

"I hearby declare myself a phantom in the darkness."-me
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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2/8/2014 9:33:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/6/2014 10:21:22 AM, Linkish1O2 wrote:
I never argued against a nice temp ban.

While I believe a full ban should be rare... A temp ban for how long, and what if the user does the exact same thing immediately upon returning? We all hope ultimate sanctions are never needed, but occasionally you get someone who needs to be terminated from the population for the good of all.

Yes a temp ban could be for six months, then a year, then two years... But at a certain point, why try to rehabilitate when someone has proven themselves uninterested in rehabilitation?
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
NightofTheLivingCats
Posts: 2,294
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2/8/2014 9:46:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 10:18:24 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 2/5/2014 4:15:46 AM, Krazzy_Player wrote:
Recently I'm noticing too many temporary ban in DDO. Temp ban on members may be for many reasons but certainly it doesn't feel right. People create an account just for some fun and communication with their friends and build their network. I agree we should follow rules of a particular site we sign up but ban is not the solution I guess. Temporary ban or any kind of ban creates a negative impact on members and on site. Members may even loose interest on this site. Instead there should be an other alternative for ban. Since Imabench, Stalin and some members are well known users of this site imposing ban, "Is it really necessary?

I've actually gotten more complaints lately on my lax approach than of being too strict, so this is an interesting post. It probably goes without saying that I feel the temp-bans are necessary and serve a greater purpose than just punishment. So I would say that it is necessary.

I am however interested in any alternative ideas that you might have. In the past year or so certain steps I've taken have limited the amount of bans necessary (serial votebombers now don't have to be banned for example) but for repeated conduct violations I'm not sure what else there is that can be done. The threat of one being removed from the site, first temporarily, and then after enough repeated offenses permanently, seems to have proven to be the only method of deterrence.

Is there any other method that you think might work?

I happen to like yer Lax approach.
PeriodicPatriot
Posts: 140
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2/8/2014 10:01:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 4:15:46 AM, Krazzy_Player wrote:
Recently I'm noticing too many temporary ban in DDO. Temp ban on members may be for many reasons but certainly it doesn't feel right. People create an account just for some fun and communication with their friends and build their network. I agree we should follow rules of a particular site we sign up but ban is not the solution I guess. Temporary ban or any kind of ban creates a negative impact on members and on site. Members may even loose interest on this site. Instead there should be an other alternative for ban. Since Imabench, Stalin and some members are well known users of this site imposing ban, "Is it really necessary?

There is nothing wrong. Anyway, temporary bans last less than a week, so what's the big deal? It's actually time that people see what they're doing. It is not punishment or cruelty. It is simply and relaxation, a break rather. To soften themselves and be clean. They need to think:

What am I doing that got me banned?
What could I do to not do it again?
Would it make me clean and new?

Part of me agrees (for some reason) that there should not. It's a free, independent country. We can say what we want. It's our opinion. It's what we think. The world isn't perfect and happy. There are bad things going on. And when I see people complain about something some user said, I think to myself, 'Ever heard of freedom of speech?'. Then, I accidently type it and now I'm the one getting the hate comments. Haters gonna hate.

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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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2/8/2014 11:33:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Banning should be avoided. We should do what we can to resolve problems without needing to take any unnecessary actions.

But sometimes it is necessary. Rarely.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

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yay842
Posts: 5,680
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2/9/2014 12:04:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/5/2014 7:21:44 AM, Ragnar wrote:
What is your suggested alternative?

we track them down using the GPS system DDO location locator to obtain their address, hunt them down, and give em a spanking
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