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The Fallacy of Quoting out of Context

GWL-CPA
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2/12/2014 11:08:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't know why so many debaters at this site are clueless about the proper way to cite books, articles, essays, ect., and electronic sources (including online databases), including links to books, essays, articles, etc. Or, to actually quote what is being cited.

Just listing the link is not proper or acceptable, and you should lose the 2 points for the voting category "Used the most reliable sources."

I have seen some morons cite entire books or 10,000 word articles to support their arguments, without quoting exactly what they are using from those books or articles.

I especially like where they are committing the fallacy called:

"Fallacy of quoting out of context"

"The practice of quoting out of context, sometimes referred to as "contextomy", is a logical fallacy and a type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning.[1] Contextomies are stereotypically intentional, but may also occur accidentally if someone misinterprets the meaning and omits something essential to clarifying it, thinking it non-essential."

Arguments based on this fallacy typically take two forms:

1. - As a straw man argument, which is frequently found in politics, it involves quoting an opponent out of context in order to misrepresent their position (typically to make it seem more simplistic or extreme) in order to make it easier to refute.

2. - As an appeal to authority, it involves quoting an authority on the subject out of context, in order to misrepresent that authority as supporting some position.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org...
[1[ Engel, Morris S., With Good Reason: An Introduction to Informal Fallacies (1994), pp. 106-107 ISBN 0-312-15758-4
[2] http://www.fallacyfiles.org...

"IEP - Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy " A Peer-Reviewed Academic Resource" by Bradley Dowden, California State University, Sacramento

"Fallacies"
"Cherry-Picking the Evidence"

"This is another name for the Fallacy of Suppressed Evidence."
http://www.iep.utm.edu...

"Basic Style for Citations of Electronic Sources (Including Online Databases)"

"Here are some common features you should try and find before citing electronic sources in MLA " Modern Language Association style. Not every Web page will provide all of the following information. "However, collect as much of the following information as possible both for your citations and for your research notes:

> Author and/or editor names (if available)

> Article name in quotation marks (if applicable)

Title of the Website, project, or book in italics. (Remember that some Print publications have Web publications with slightly different names. They may, for example, include the additional information or otherwise modified information, like domain names [e.g. .com or .net].)

> Any version numbers available, including revisions, posting dates, volumes, or issue numbers.

> Publisher information, including the publisher name and publishing date.

> Take note of any page numbers (if available).

> Medium of publication.

> Date you accessed the material.

> URL (if required, or for your own personal reference; MLA does not require a URL).

> Citing an Entire Web Site

It is necessary to list your date of access because web postings are often updated, and information available on one date may no longer be available later. If a URL is required or you chose to include one, be sure to include the complete address for the site. (Note:

> Remember to use n.p. if no publisher name is available and n.d. if no publishing date is given.

> Editor, author, or compiler name (if available). Name of Site. Version number. Name of institution/organization affiliated with the site (sponsor or publisher), date of resource creation (if available). Medium of publication. Date of access.

The Purdue OWL Family of Sites. The Writing Lab and OWL at Purdue and Purdue U, 2008. Web. 23 Apr. 2008.

Felluga, Dino. Guide to Literary and Critical Theory. Purdue U, 28 Nov. 2003. Web. 10 May 2006.

https://owl.english.purdue.edu...

Then there is the issue of plagiarism, which occurs frequently at this site, not word for word plagiarism, but

"The Writing Center" " Plagiarism" " University of North Carolina

"the deliberate or reckless representation of another"s words, thoughts, or ideas as one"s own without attribution.

http://writingcenter.unc.edu...

And, most voters do not spend enough time trying to determine if one or both of the debaters are guilty of a from of plagiarism.
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain
Jonbonbon
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2/12/2014 2:44:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 2:31:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
"Just listing the link is not proper or acceptable,"

Yes it is lol.
The Troll Queen.

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GWL-CPA
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2/12/2014 3:01:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 2:31:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
"Just listing the link is not proper or acceptable,"

Yes it is lol.

Cite your sources, otherwise shut up.
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain
GWL-CPA
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2/12/2014 3:02:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 2:44:38 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 2/12/2014 2:31:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
"Just listing the link is not proper or acceptable,"

Yes it is lol.

Cite your sources, otherwise shut up.
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain
Jonbonbon
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2/12/2014 3:18:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:02:06 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:
At 2/12/2014 2:44:38 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 2/12/2014 2:31:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
"Just listing the link is not proper or acceptable,"

Yes it is lol.

Cite your sources, otherwise shut up.

I cite Zaradi
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9

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Zaradi
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2/12/2014 3:18:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:01:38 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:
At 2/12/2014 2:31:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
"Just listing the link is not proper or acceptable,"

Yes it is lol.

Cite your sources, otherwise shut up.

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net...
http://www.imagesbuddy.com...
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net...
https://31.media.tumblr.com...
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Zaradi
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2/12/2014 3:19:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:18:07 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:02:06 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:
At 2/12/2014 2:44:38 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 2/12/2014 2:31:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
"Just listing the link is not proper or acceptable,"

Yes it is lol.

Cite your sources, otherwise shut up.

I cite Zaradi

Awh <3
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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/12/2014 3:26:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Has anyone noticed the glaring similarities between this guy and Izbo.

http://www.debate.org...

He seems like the same guy but just a little more restrained. Is it?
YYW
Posts: 36,392
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2/12/2014 3:27:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Writing on DDO isn't quite like writing for an academic assignment, or for publication in a journal of some kind. While I would like to see -real- citations and not just numbered links, I understand the reason why most people don't do that is because of limited character space and the more laissez faire attitude people have about citations. And while on most occasions, the source-citation issue is just caviler, misrepresenting what an article says is one of my biggest pet peeves. However, in many cases where an article's thesis/main point has been misrepresented, the error is not one committed with volition -but rather the result of the debater/writer's misunderstanding of what was written for at least one of any number of reasons including but not limited to, lack of comprehension of the material, careless reading, lack of foundational knowledge about a subject, etc. Most people (and this is the case as much in the classroom as it is on DDO) don't read very carefully... and so when they use a source, they're inclined to misuse it. It's irritating, but an inalterable fact of intellectual life.
Tsar of DDO
bluesteel
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2/12/2014 3:27:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:02:06 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:
At 2/12/2014 2:44:38 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 2/12/2014 2:31:44 PM, Zaradi wrote:
"Just listing the link is not proper or acceptable,"

Yes it is lol.

Cite your sources, otherwise shut up.

A web-link in a web-debate is an acceptable citation. Full citations and MLA and other styles are only there to help readers locate your sources with ease. If you're citing material not available online, someone would need a lot of information to locate the same source (potentially). But since these are online debates and online sources, we can presume the reader is already at his or her computer. Just click the link. You will find the source.

You are arguing for a formalistic rule while forgetting the substance and original purpose of the rule. Blind formalism cannot stand for its own sake.

Legal citations use a "short cite" form. Once you cite to a case in full, you can refer to it in a significantly shortened form. The only purpose of citation is to help someone else locate the source you are using. You offer no reason why a hyperlink does not suffice, except to say that a website may change. However, this problem can be solved by archiving it, or simply assuming that for a 10-day voting period debate, the link will be stable for at least that long.

Quoting out of context is a problem if it completely distorts meaning, but it's an opponent's job to point that out. And straw manning by simplifying an argument is necessary in order to respond. You're responding to one facet of the argument, not the entire arguments with all of its shades of gray. Your assertion about the way it's necessary to repeat quotes is the same as asserting that whenever you reproduce an image, you must reproduce it 100% accurately and in full color. That is overly cumbersome. There is a character limit. I'm not going to reproduce an entire chapter of a book I cite just so the reader has 100% perfect context for the quote.

/Endrant
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
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2/12/2014 3:29:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:26:33 PM, Wylted wrote:
Has anyone noticed the glaring similarities between this guy and Izbo.

http://www.debate.org...

He seems like the same guy but just a little more restrained. Is it?

Lol. I'd know izbo if I saw him...

Izbo generally had trouble writing in complete sentences. This guy doesn't.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/12/2014 3:35:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:29:56 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:26:33 PM, Wylted wrote:
Has anyone noticed the glaring similarities between this guy and Izbo.

http://www.debate.org...

He seems like the same guy but just a little more restrained. Is it?

Lol. I'd know izbo if I saw him...

Izbo generally had trouble writing in complete sentences. This guy doesn't.

That clears that up.
GWL-CPA
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2/12/2014 3:44:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:35:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:29:56 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:26:33 PM, Wylted wrote:
Has anyone noticed the glaring similarities between this guy and Izbo.

http://www.debate.org...

He seems like the same guy but just a little more restrained. Is it?

Lol. I'd know izbo if I saw him...

Izbo generally had trouble writing in complete sentences. This guy doesn't.

That clears that up.

More Troll nonsense again.

You people are obsessed with trolls.

I am pointing out a fault in many debates, specifically the citing of sources and plagiarism.

Links can break or be removed, so it is best to give the title of the link, author, etc. and, you should not be citing entire books or 10,000 word articles without quoting what you are citing. It is really quite simple to do it right.

What don't you folks understand?
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain
Zaradi
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2/12/2014 3:46:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:44:42 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:

What don't you folks understand?

How someone could honestly believe something so dumb.
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SeventhProfessor
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2/12/2014 3:48:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:46:46 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:44:42 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:

What don't you folks understand?

How someone could honestly believe something so dumb.

He has a point about quoting 10,000 page essays.
#UnbanTheMadman

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Jonbonbon
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2/12/2014 3:48:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:44:42 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:
More Troll nonsense again.
Don't capitalize trolls. We're not a freaking country.

You people are obsessed with trolls.
Trolls bring a little fun wherever they go.

I am pointing out a fault in many debates, specifically the citing of sources and plagiarism.
Get people to actually use sources first. Then we'll talk.

Links can break or be removed, so it is best to give the title of the link, author, etc.
Woah, bro slow down.... Grab the wall....

and, you should not be citing entire books or 10,000 word articles without quoting what you are citing.
What if it's 9,000 pages?

It is really quite simple to do it right.
It takes a lot of time.

What don't you folks understand?
Quantum mechanics
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9

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Zaradi
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2/12/2014 3:51:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:48:50 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:44:42 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:

What don't you folks understand?
Quantum mechanics

Really? That sh*t's simple. It's not like it's rocket science or anything.
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Jonbonbon
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2/12/2014 3:52:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:51:13 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:48:50 PM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:44:42 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:

What don't you folks understand?
Quantum mechanics

Really? That sh*t's simple. It's not like it's rocket science or anything.

Well, it probably doesn't help that I haven't tried to understand it XD
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9

http://www.debate.org...
YYW
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2/12/2014 3:52:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:27:46 PM, bluesteel wrote:
I'm not going to reproduce an entire chapter of a book I cite just so the reader has 100% perfect context for the quote.

/Endrant

That's not what he's asking you to do.
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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/12/2014 3:54:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:44:42 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:35:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:29:56 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:26:33 PM, Wylted wrote:
Has anyone noticed the glaring similarities between this guy and Izbo.

http://www.debate.org...

He seems like the same guy but just a little more restrained. Is it?

Lol. I'd know izbo if I saw him...

Izbo generally had trouble writing in complete sentences. This guy doesn't.

That clears that up.

More Troll nonsense again.

You people are obsessed with trolls.

I am pointing out a fault in many debates, specifically the citing of sources and plagiarism.

Links can break or be removed, so it is best to give the title of the link, author, etc. and, you should not be citing entire books or 10,000 word articles without quoting what you are citing. It is really quite simple to do it right.

What don't you folks understand?

I understand what your saying. I'll take your advice into consideration. I just happened to look through a bunch of Izbo's old posts to see why he is hated and noticed he would start threads similar to yours and had the habit of calling people morons also.
sadolite
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2/12/2014 4:02:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I agree with the OP. Quoting what someone says or what is written out of context is not a source, it's deception and a conduct violation.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

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GWL-CPA
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2/12/2014 4:13:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:54:02 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:44:42 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:35:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:29:56 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:26:33 PM, Wylted wrote:
Has anyone noticed the glaring similarities between this guy and Izbo.

http://www.debate.org...

He seems like the same guy but just a little more restrained. Is it?

Lol. I'd know izbo if I saw him...

Izbo generally had trouble writing in complete sentences. This guy doesn't.

That clears that up.

More Troll nonsense again.

You people are obsessed with trolls.

I am pointing out a fault in many debates, specifically the citing of sources and plagiarism.

Links can break or be removed, so it is best to give the title of the link, author, etc. and, you should not be citing entire books or 10,000 word articles without quoting what you are citing. It is really quite simple to do it right.

What don't you folks understand?

I understand what your saying. I'll take your advice into consideration. I just happened to look through a bunch of Izbo's old posts to see why he is hated and noticed he would start threads similar to yours and had the habit of calling people morons also.

What would you call people who cheat and are dishonest? One guy quoted an entire book, 22 chapters long, and another the entire Bible.

It was very funny.

Who is lzbo?
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain
GWL-CPA
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2/12/2014 4:38:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:27:29 PM, YYW wrote:
Writing on DDO isn't quite like writing for an academic assignment, or for publication in a journal of some kind. While I would like to see -real- citations and not just numbered links, I understand the reason why most people don't do that is because of limited character space and the more laissez faire attitude people have about citations. And while on most occasions, the source-citation issue is just caviler, misrepresenting what an article says is one of my biggest pet peeves. However, in many cases where an article's thesis/main point has been misrepresented, the error is not one committed with volition -but rather the result of the debater/writer's misunderstanding of what was written for at least one of any number of reasons including but not limited to, lack of comprehension of the material, careless reading, lack of foundational knowledge about a subject, etc. Most people (and this is the case as much in the classroom as it is on DDO) don't read very carefully... and so when they use a source, they're inclined to misuse it. It's irritating, but an inalterable fact of intellectual life.

And, most voters don't bother reading the entire article to see if the debaters they are voting for actually committed the "Fallacy of Quoting out of Context;" so their votes are worthless. But, what does it matter, Confirmation Bias Cannot be Beaten.

So, you are proving my points more often than not.
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain
Jonbonbon
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2/12/2014 5:05:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 4:38:52 PM, GWL-CPA wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:27:29 PM, YYW wrote:
Writing on DDO isn't quite like writing for an academic assignment, or for publication in a journal of some kind. While I would like to see -real- citations and not just numbered links, I understand the reason why most people don't do that is because of limited character space and the more laissez faire attitude people have about citations. And while on most occasions, the source-citation issue is just caviler, misrepresenting what an article says is one of my biggest pet peeves. However, in many cases where an article's thesis/main point has been misrepresented, the error is not one committed with volition -but rather the result of the debater/writer's misunderstanding of what was written for at least one of any number of reasons including but not limited to, lack of comprehension of the material, careless reading, lack of foundational knowledge about a subject, etc. Most people (and this is the case as much in the classroom as it is on DDO) don't read very carefully... and so when they use a source, they're inclined to misuse it. It's irritating, but an inalterable fact of intellectual life.

And most voters don't bother reading the entire article to see if the debaters they are voting for actually committed the "Fallacy of Quoting out of Context," so their votes are worthless. But what does it matter? Confirmation bias cannot be beaten.

So you are proving my points more often than not.

Fix'd
The Troll Queen.

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"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9

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bluesteel
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2/12/2014 5:50:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/12/2014 3:52:35 PM, YYW wrote:
At 2/12/2014 3:27:46 PM, bluesteel wrote:
I'm not going to reproduce an entire chapter of a book I cite just so the reader has 100% perfect context for the quote.

/Endrant

That's not what he's asking you to do.

Lol. You quoted me out of context..... You're guilty of his fallacy.

I just meant that the criticism of violating the rules on contextomy is an extreme position. People cut down a quote for simplicity's sake, to make it easier to respond to [like what you did]. But when you do so, you inherently lose some context.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Jonbonbon
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2/13/2014 10:34:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/13/2014 9:54:34 AM, MassiveDump wrote:
Go away.
The Troll Queen.

I'm also the Troll Goddess of Reason. Sacrifices are appreciated but not necessary.

"I'm a vivacious sex fiend," SolonKR.

Go vote on one of my debates. I'm not that smart, so it'll probably be an easy decision.

Fite me m9

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GWL-CPA
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2/13/2014 12:52:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/13/2014 9:54:34 AM, MassiveDump wrote:
Go away.

You know what is funny?

Most people consider you a troll.

I consider you just an immature punk.
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain
GWL-CPA
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2/13/2014 12:52:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/13/2014 10:34:44 AM, Jonbonbon wrote:
At 2/13/2014 9:54:34 AM, MassiveDump wrote:
Go away.

Aren't you cute!
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years."

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Mark Twain