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I'm sorry for the list. What I really want...

kbub
Posts: 1,377
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3/15/2014 9:02:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hey y'all.

I've been thinking hard about the list, and I guess I'm come to be honest with myself about why I compiled it. I think maybe what I was really feeling was overwhelmed. I felt like there was so many problematic statements going on on the site that I needed to address them all. I felt like I was one of only a few, and it was too big for me. I felt like I was losing.

I think what I really wanted, if I'm honest, was help from all of you. I felt like serious problems weren't being addressed. I felt like many of us have become apathetic or desensitized to things that should be shocking* (not to belittle the many of us who do fight with gusto).

I'm sorry about making the list. That was a weird way to go about trying to fix things. I don't want to be the thought police. I want people to think more, not less. What I really need is y'all's help. I can't fight these battles against racism and sexism and homophobia and transphobia alone.

So, to try to phrase this properly. Sorry about earlier. Would
I be able, if you are willing, to recruit your help in fighting racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia on DDO? I would really appreciate it, but understand if you can't make any promises.

Feel free to respond in the thread. Thanks!

--kbub
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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3/15/2014 9:09:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 9:02:48 PM, kbub wrote:
Hey y'all.

I've been thinking hard about the list, and I guess I'm come to be honest with myself about why I compiled it. I think maybe what I was really feeling was overwhelmed. I felt like there was so many problematic statements going on on the site that I needed to address them all. I felt like I was one of only a few, and it was too big for me. I felt like I was losing.

I think what I really wanted, if I'm honest, was help from all of you. I felt like serious problems weren't being addressed. I felt like many of us have become apathetic or desensitized to things that should be shocking* (not to belittle the many of us who do fight with gusto).

I'm sorry about making the list. That was a weird way to go about trying to fix things. I don't want to be the thought police. I want people to think more, not less. What I really need is y'all's help. I can't fight these battles against racism and sexism and homophobia and transphobia alone.

So, to try to phrase this properly. Sorry about earlier. Would
I be able, if you are willing, to recruit your help in fighting racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia on DDO? I would really appreciate it, but understand if you can't make any promises.

Feel free to respond in the thread. Thanks!

--kbub

This site can provoke a lot of emotion. Most of the topics here are regarding personal and serious issues, and when people make light of them, or say something that comes off as offensive to something important to you, then it is only reasonable to get upset.

We all have been through hard things, and we are likely non vocal about many, but its understandable to get a little frustrated over them. I forgive you Kbub :)
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
kbub
Posts: 1,377
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3/15/2014 9:13:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 9:09:24 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/15/2014 9:02:48 PM, kbub wrote:
Hey y'all.

I've been thinking hard about the list, and I guess I'm come to be honest with myself about why I compiled it. I think maybe what I was really feeling was overwhelmed. I felt like there was so many problematic statements going on on the site that I needed to address them all. I felt like I was one of only a few, and it was too big for me. I felt like I was losing.

I think what I really wanted, if I'm honest, was help from all of you. I felt like serious problems weren't being addressed. I felt like many of us have become apathetic or desensitized to things that should be shocking* (not to belittle the many of us who do fight with gusto).

I'm sorry about making the list. That was a weird way to go about trying to fix things. I don't want to be the thought police. I want people to think more, not less. What I really need is y'all's help. I can't fight these battles against racism and sexism and homophobia and transphobia alone.

So, to try to phrase this properly. Sorry about earlier. Would
I be able, if you are willing, to recruit your help in fighting racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia on DDO? I would really appreciate it, but understand if you can't make any promises.

Feel free to respond in the thread. Thanks!

--kbub

This site can provoke a lot of emotion. Most of the topics here are regarding personal and serious issues, and when people make light of them, or say something that comes off as offensive to something important to you, then it is only reasonable to get upset.

We all have been through hard things, and we are likely non vocal about many, but its understandable to get a little frustrated over them. I forgive you Kbub :)

I appreciate it.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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3/15/2014 9:19:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think your reaction is understandable, and from talking to you and others privately I understand where you are coming from.

As I have told you and other members, the best thing we can do when we see controversial comments of this type is to constantly challenge them. This site is specifically for that, and the best thing we can do is force people to back up their racist/sexist/etc claims so that they may potentially have to change their perspective, or force them to spout their nonsense elsewhere where it will be accepted. Because on a site like this, we shouldn't ever just accept these claims (or any other claims) and should take someone to task who is making any type of assertion.
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EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/15/2014 9:20:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If I see anything on the site like that (racism, sexism, homophobia, etc), kbub, of course I'd call it out. Those attitudes need to be challenged in order for progress to happen. But I'm not also not going to hunt down that type of thinking.

Now get back in the kitchen.
YYW
Posts: 36,271
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3/15/2014 9:23:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 9:20:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
If I see anything on the site like that (racism, sexism, homophobia, etc), kbub, of course I'd call it out. Those attitudes need to be challenged in order for progress to happen. But I'm not also not going to hunt down that type of thinking.

I might, if by hunt down you mean "condescendingly snicker at and judge."
Tsar of DDO
kbub
Posts: 1,377
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3/15/2014 10:11:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 9:23:04 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/15/2014 9:20:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
If I see anything on the site like that (racism, sexism, homophobia, etc), kbub, of course I'd call it out. Those attitudes need to be challenged in order for progress to happen. But I'm not also not going to hunt down that type of thinking.

I might, if by hunt down you mean "condescendingly snicker at and judge."

Haha
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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3/15/2014 10:53:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 9:23:04 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/15/2014 9:20:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
If I see anything on the site like that (racism, sexism, homophobia, etc), kbub, of course I'd call it out. Those attitudes need to be challenged in order for progress to happen. But I'm not also not going to hunt down that type of thinking.

I might, if by hunt down you mean "condescendingly snicker at and judge."

http://m.youtube.com...

Also possibly a theme song.
YYW
Posts: 36,271
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3/15/2014 10:57:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 10:53:33 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 3/15/2014 9:23:04 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/15/2014 9:20:00 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
If I see anything on the site like that (racism, sexism, homophobia, etc), kbub, of course I'd call it out. Those attitudes need to be challenged in order for progress to happen. But I'm not also not going to hunt down that type of thinking.

I might, if by hunt down you mean "condescendingly snicker at and judge."

http://m.youtube.com...

Also possibly a theme song.

I can't think of a better band to sing it either haha
Tsar of DDO
ADreamOfLiberty
Posts: 1,570
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3/16/2014 12:29:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 9:02:48 PM, kbub wrote:
Hey y'all.

I've been thinking hard about the list, and I guess I'm come to be honest with myself about why I compiled it. I think maybe what I was really feeling was overwhelmed. I felt like there was so many problematic statements going on on the site that I needed to address them all. I felt like I was one of only a few, and it was too big for me. I felt like I was losing.

I think what I really wanted, if I'm honest, was help from all of you. I felt like serious problems weren't being addressed. I felt like many of us have become apathetic or desensitized to things that should be shocking* (not to belittle the many of us who do fight with gusto).

I'm sorry about making the list. That was a weird way to go about trying to fix things. I don't want to be the thought police. I want people to think more, not less. What I really need is y'all's help. I can't fight these battles against racism and sexism and homophobia and transphobia alone.

So, to try to phrase this properly. Sorry about earlier. Would
I be able, if you are willing, to recruit your help in fighting racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia on DDO? I would really appreciate it, but understand if you can't make any promises.

Feel free to respond in the thread. Thanks!

--kbub

Kbub listen, there was nothing wrong with that idea except for the fact that you said it was going to be private and yet made a thread announcing it which doesn't make any sense. (no need to defend it since it's obvious you see that now)

I am a huge huge advocate of holding people accountable for what they say on a debate site. Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification, which means if you have a culture which tolerates members who contradict themselves it tolerates illogical members.

Each thread, each debate, each comment is not a world unto itself.

The people on this site tolerate a show called "the weekly stupid" where a stupid person spends some significant amount of time compiling lists of stupid comments (sometimes erroneously).

How much more productive towards the end of this site would be a tradition of calling out hypocrisy, racism, sexism, general bigotry, and refusal to support one's statements?

Aside from the ban hammer there is only one way to fight these things Call people on them. If they are emotional outbursts or mistakes people can always retract and apologize.
LOL, yeah, it's pretty amazing how they think they can "reason" with you. - Sidewalker, speaking of advocates for sexual deviancy.

So, my advice, Liberty, is to go somewhere else. Leave, and never come back. - YYW

And that's what I did. Contact me at http://www.edeb8.com... by the same user name if you have anything you'd like to say.
Defro
Posts: 847
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3/16/2014 12:51:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 11:07:02 PM, Mikal wrote:
Why do all asians know karate. FAwk

I'm Asian and I don't know karate :)
I do however know Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai XD
kbub
Posts: 1,377
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3/16/2014 1:37:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/16/2014 12:51:37 PM, Defro wrote:
At 3/15/2014 11:07:02 PM, Mikal wrote:
Why do all asians know karate. FAwk

I'm Asian and I don't know karate :)
I do however know Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai XD

Dang I love Muay Thai. Have you ever come across Aikido?
kbub
Posts: 1,377
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3/16/2014 1:43:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/16/2014 12:29:52 PM, ADreamOfLiberty wrote:
At 3/15/2014 9:02:48 PM, kbub wrote:
Hey y'all.

I've been thinking hard about the list, and I guess I'm come to be honest with myself about why I compiled it. I think maybe what I was really feeling was overwhelmed. I felt like there was so many problematic statements going on on the site that I needed to address them all. I felt like I was one of only a few, and it was too big for me. I felt like I was losing.

I think what I really wanted, if I'm honest, was help from all of you. I felt like serious problems weren't being addressed. I felt like many of us have become apathetic or desensitized to things that should be shocking* (not to belittle the many of us who do fight with gusto).

I'm sorry about making the list. That was a weird way to go about trying to fix things. I don't want to be the thought police. I want people to think more, not less. What I really need is y'all's help. I can't fight these battles against racism and sexism and homophobia and transphobia alone.

So, to try to phrase this properly. Sorry about earlier. Would
I be able, if you are willing, to recruit your help in fighting racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia on DDO? I would really appreciate it, but understand if you can't make any promises.

Feel free to respond in the thread. Thanks!

--kbub

Kbub listen, there was nothing wrong with that idea except for the fact that you said it was going to be private and yet made a thread announcing it which doesn't make any sense. (no need to defend it since it's obvious you see that now)

I am a huge huge advocate of holding people accountable for what they say on a debate site. Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification, which means if you have a culture which tolerates members who contradict themselves it tolerates illogical members.

Each thread, each debate, each comment is not a world unto itself.

The people on this site tolerate a show called "the weekly stupid" where a stupid person spends some significant amount of time compiling lists of stupid comments (sometimes erroneously).

How much more productive towards the end of this site would be a tradition of calling out hypocrisy, racism, sexism, general bigotry, and refusal to support one's statements?

Aside from the ban hammer there is only one way to fight these things Call people on them. If they are emotional outbursts or mistakes people can always retract and apologize.

Thanks for the advice and support!
Defro
Posts: 847
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3/16/2014 1:48:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/16/2014 1:37:24 PM, kbub wrote:
At 3/16/2014 12:51:37 PM, Defro wrote:
At 3/15/2014 11:07:02 PM, Mikal wrote:
Why do all asians know karate. FAwk

I'm Asian and I don't know karate :)
I do however know Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai XD

Dang I love Muay Thai. Have you ever come across Aikido?

Never. I live in Thailand, where the only prominent forms of martial arts taught everywhere is either Tae Kwon Do or Muay Thai. So I've never come across Akido.

I would love to though. I find it very unique because it doesn't require much physical strength as other martial arts.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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3/20/2014 9:22:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/15/2014 9:02:48 PM, kbub wrote:
Hey y'all.

I've been thinking hard about the list, and I guess I'm come to be honest with myself about why I compiled it. I think maybe what I was really feeling was overwhelmed. I felt like there was so many problematic statements going on on the site that I needed to address them all. I felt like I was one of only a few, and it was too big for me. I felt like I was losing.

I think what I really wanted, if I'm honest, was help from all of you. I felt like serious problems weren't being addressed. I felt like many of us have become apathetic or desensitized to things that should be shocking* (not to belittle the many of us who do fight with gusto).

I'm sorry about making the list. That was a weird way to go about trying to fix things. I don't want to be the thought police. I want people to think more, not less. What I really need is y'all's help. I can't fight these battles against racism and sexism and homophobia and transphobia alone.

So, to try to phrase this properly. Sorry about earlier. Would
I be able, if you are willing, to recruit your help in fighting racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia on DDO? I would really appreciate it, but understand if you can't make any promises.

Feel free to respond in the thread. Thanks!

--kbub

So let me get this straight. You made a list of racist/homophobic/transphobic things people on this site say and then......apologized for doing so? Am I missing something? Who are you apologizing to?
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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3/20/2014 9:51:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
@Kbub - I think your goals are laudable. I think reporting inappropriate or hateful remarks is a good strategy. I try to do that already.

I think though it is important to keep our cool while pointing out that a comment is bigoted or ignorant. If we ourselves become to riled up, the logic and appeal of our message is lost in the emotional delivery.

But, I totally support you!
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sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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3/21/2014 4:55:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There's two sides to every accusation of racism, sexism and homophobia, Yours and aholes. 95% of all accusations are broad brushed indoctrinated politically correct knee jerk BS.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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3/21/2014 11:48:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/21/2014 4:55:00 PM, sadolite wrote:
There's two sides to every accusation of racism, sexism and homophobia, Yours and aholes. 95% of all accusations are broad brushed indoctrinated politically correct knee jerk BS.

^parody account- pay no mind
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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3/22/2014 10:21:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/21/2014 11:48:28 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 3/21/2014 4:55:00 PM, sadolite wrote:
There's two sides to every accusation of racism, sexism and homophobia, Yours and aholes. 95% of all accusations are broad brushed indoctrinated politically correct knee jerk BS.

^parody account- pay no mind

Why are you such a complete dick
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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3/22/2014 11:21:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 10:21:42 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/21/2014 11:48:28 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 3/21/2014 4:55:00 PM, sadolite wrote:
There's two sides to every accusation of racism, sexism and homophobia, Yours and aholes. 95% of all accusations are broad brushed indoctrinated politically correct knee jerk BS.

^parody account- pay no mind

Why are you such a complete dick

^parody account- pay no mind
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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3/22/2014 3:23:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 11:21:21 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 3/22/2014 10:21:42 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/21/2014 11:48:28 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 3/21/2014 4:55:00 PM, sadolite wrote:
There's two sides to every accusation of racism, sexism and homophobia, Yours and aholes. 95% of all accusations are broad brushed indoctrinated politically correct knee jerk BS.

^parody account- pay no mind

Why are you such a complete dick

^parody account- pay no mind

I blame your parents. I mean, what does it say about ones character and up bringing to go out of ones way to personally insult people for no apparent reason. I pity you. Your going to have a hard life. But what ever, you serve no intellectual purpose to me or humanity.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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3/23/2014 10:43:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/22/2014 3:23:31 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/22/2014 11:21:21 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 3/22/2014 10:21:42 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/21/2014 11:48:28 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 3/21/2014 4:55:00 PM, sadolite wrote:
There's two sides to every accusation of racism, sexism and homophobia, Yours and aholes. 95% of all accusations are broad brushed indoctrinated politically correct knee jerk BS.

^parody account- pay no mind

Why are you such a complete dick

^parody account- pay no mind

I blame your parents. I mean, what does it say about ones character and up bringing to go out of ones way to personally insult people for no apparent reason. I pity you. Your going to have a hard life. But what ever, you serve no intellectual purpose to me or humanity.

Amateur psychoanalyst- pay no mind
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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3/23/2014 12:57:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 10:43:38 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 3/22/2014 3:23:31 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/22/2014 11:21:21 AM, Noumena wrote:
At 3/22/2014 10:21:42 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/21/2014 11:48:28 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 3/21/2014 4:55:00 PM, sadolite wrote:
There's two sides to every accusation of racism, sexism and homophobia, Yours and aholes. 95% of all accusations are broad brushed indoctrinated politically correct knee jerk BS.

^parody account- pay no mind

Why are you such a complete dick

^parody account- pay no mind

I blame your parents. I mean, what does it say about ones character and up bringing to go out of ones way to personally insult people for no apparent reason. I pity you. Your going to have a hard life. But what ever, you serve no intellectual purpose to me or humanity.

Amateur psychoanalyst- pay no mind

Your just jealous of me. I understand, not everyone can have talent.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%