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**If I debated a prominent member...

kbub
Posts: 1,377
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3/24/2014 12:28:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
If I were to debate one or more very prominent member(s) of DDO, would other DDO voters be able to without being biased?

I am thinking of accepting a debate(s), but I'm worried that people will vote for the individual(s) automatically: Perhaps because they trust the individual(s) to win.

What do you think? Should I accept, or will I lose by default?
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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3/24/2014 12:34:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:28:51 AM, kbub wrote:
If I were to debate one or more very prominent member(s) of DDO, would other DDO voters be able to without being biased?

I am thinking of accepting a debate(s), but I'm worried that people will vote for the individual(s) automatically: Perhaps because they trust the individual(s) to win.

What do you think? Should I accept, or will I lose by default?

Some bias naturally exists. But I'd like to think that enough voters will be able to put that aside, and it should be mitigated if the debate gets enough votes. I think it is enough of a concern though.

However, the voters still have to present a reasonable enough RFD explaining why they voted for that prominent debater, even if they are doing so by default.

Why? Did you want to debate me about something? :P
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airmax1227
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3/24/2014 12:37:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Oh, I guess I didn't answer your question.

Yes, I think you should accept, and no, I don't think you will lose by default.
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kbub
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3/24/2014 12:44:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:34:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:28:51 AM, kbub wrote:
If I were to debate one or more very prominent member(s) of DDO, would other DDO voters be able to without being biased?

I am thinking of accepting a debate(s), but I'm worried that people will vote for the individual(s) automatically: Perhaps because they trust the individual(s) to win.

What do you think? Should I accept, or will I lose by default?

Some bias naturally exists. But I'd like to think that enough voters will be able to put that aside, and it should be mitigated if the debate gets enough votes. I think it is enough of a concern though.

I'd like to think that too, but I also have to look at it realistically. If I and some other debater with a high reputation were to debate, the debate would be very long. No one would want to read the whole thing all the way through, so people would take shortcuts. Additionally, voters as a whole everywhere tend to be afraid of voting poorly and looking stupid. Voting for a prominent debater is safe, and guarantees that the vote isn't a bad vote, even if it isn't perfect.

However, the voters still have to present a reasonable enough RFD explaining why they voted for that prominent debater, even if they are doing so by default.

Well, it takes a rather lot for a vote to be so bad it must be deleted. There's no rule that says votes have to be smart or even make sense--just that they explain every point given.


Why? Did you want to debate me about something? :P

Got me airmax. I'm running for President!!!
kbub
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3/24/2014 12:44:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:37:44 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
Oh, I guess I didn't answer your question.

Yes, I think you should accept, and no, I don't think you will lose by default.

Ok, I guess I will. I'm still not convinced though.
AnDoctuir
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3/24/2014 12:49:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:48:28 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:47:49 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
J.Kenyon

Pardon?

You might very well lose by default.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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3/24/2014 12:49:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:44:27 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:34:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:28:51 AM, kbub wrote:
If I were to debate one or more very prominent member(s) of DDO, would other DDO voters be able to without being biased?

I am thinking of accepting a debate(s), but I'm worried that people will vote for the individual(s) automatically: Perhaps because they trust the individual(s) to win.

What do you think? Should I accept, or will I lose by default?

Some bias naturally exists. But I'd like to think that enough voters will be able to put that aside, and it should be mitigated if the debate gets enough votes. I think it is enough of a concern though.

I'd like to think that too, but I also have to look at it realistically. If I and some other debater with a high reputation were to debate, the debate would be very long. No one would want to read the whole thing all the way through, so people would take shortcuts. Additionally, voters as a whole everywhere tend to be afraid of voting poorly and looking stupid. Voting for a prominent debater is safe, and guarantees that the vote isn't a bad vote, even if it isn't perfect.


That's a valid point, and I'd hope in those cases voters just wouldn't vote. But you are a visible enough member at this point, I think the same thing can be said about you. I think you are at the point that you can debate a prominent debater and be on "that level". You aren't some new member no one has ever heard of, so give it a shot and hope for the best.

However, the voters still have to present a reasonable enough RFD explaining why they voted for that prominent debater, even if they are doing so by default.

Well, it takes a rather lot for a vote to be so bad it must be deleted. There's no rule that says votes have to be smart or even make sense--just that they explain every point given.


While this is true for the most part, the votes to have to make some sense. If I can't determine what that explanation actually is, the the vote is subject to further review. Though I'll grant you that some voters can be clever about simply justifying their bias.


Why? Did you want to debate me about something? :P

Got me airmax. I'm running for President!!!

haha I'm not exactly sure what that would have to do with me. You should send TUF a debate challenge. :P
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kbub
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3/24/2014 12:49:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:49:25 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:48:28 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:47:49 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
J.Kenyon

Pardon?

You might very well lose by default.

Figured.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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3/24/2014 12:50:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:44:56 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:37:44 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
Oh, I guess I didn't answer your question.

Yes, I think you should accept, and no, I don't think you will lose by default.

Ok, I guess I will. I'm still not convinced though.

I'm probably not going to be able to convince you. But I still think you should give it a shot. Debating with the prominent debaters makes us better debaters, and it gives us a chance to learn something from the experience, win or lose.
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imabench
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3/24/2014 12:52:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:28:51 AM, kbub wrote:
If I were to debate one or more very prominent member(s) of DDO, would other DDO voters be able to vote without being biased?

Nope.

I am thinking of accepting a debate(s), but I'm worried that people will vote for the individual(s) automatically: Perhaps because they trust the individual(s) to win.

What do you think? Should I accept, or will I lose by default?

It depends on just how well known this other person is. Going up against RoyLatham or Mikal would be suicide but if its just some ordinary dude you'll be okay
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kbub
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3/24/2014 12:56:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:49:43 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:44:27 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:34:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:28:51 AM, kbub wrote:


Why? Did you want to debate me about something? :P

Got me airmax. I'm running for President!!!

haha I'm not exactly sure what that would have to do with me. You should send TUF a debate challenge. :P

I want you as my vice president.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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3/24/2014 12:59:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:56:50 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:49:43 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:44:27 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:34:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:28:51 AM, kbub wrote:


Why? Did you want to debate me about something? :P

Got me airmax. I'm running for President!!!

haha I'm not exactly sure what that would have to do with me. You should send TUF a debate challenge. :P

I want you as my vice president.

haha I'm flattered, but I don't think you really want that... I have no experience in that role.

"Resolved: Airmax should run as my vice president"

I'll be con.

Send the challenge whenever you are ready.
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kbub
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3/24/2014 1:14:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:59:13 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:56:50 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:49:43 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:44:27 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:34:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:28:51 AM, kbub wrote:


Why? Did you want to debate me about something? :P

Got me airmax. I'm running for President!!!

haha I'm not exactly sure what that would have to do with me. You should send TUF a debate challenge. :P

I want you as my vice president.

haha I'm flattered, but I don't think you really want that... I have no experience in that role.

"Resolved: Airmax should run as my vice president"

I'll be con.

Send the challenge whenever you are ready.

It might be a while :/ There's kind of a queue of challenges that I've been meaning to get too....
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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3/24/2014 1:14:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 1:14:03 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:59:13 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:56:50 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:49:43 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:44:27 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:34:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:28:51 AM, kbub wrote:


Why? Did you want to debate me about something? :P

Got me airmax. I'm running for President!!!

haha I'm not exactly sure what that would have to do with me. You should send TUF a debate challenge. :P

I want you as my vice president.

haha I'm flattered, but I don't think you really want that... I have no experience in that role.

"Resolved: Airmax should run as my vice president"

I'll be con.

Send the challenge whenever you are ready.

It might be a while :/ There's kind of a queue of challenges that I've been meaning to get too....

That's ok... I don't really think we should debate that anyways.
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kbub
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3/24/2014 1:16:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 1:14:41 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 1:14:03 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:59:13 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:56:50 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:49:43 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:44:27 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:34:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:28:51 AM, kbub wrote:


Why? Did you want to debate me about something? :P

Got me airmax. I'm running for President!!!

haha I'm not exactly sure what that would have to do with me. You should send TUF a debate challenge. :P

I want you as my vice president.

haha I'm flattered, but I don't think you really want that... I have no experience in that role.

"Resolved: Airmax should run as my vice president"

I'll be con.

Send the challenge whenever you are ready.

It might be a while :/ There's kind of a queue of challenges that I've been meaning to get too....

That's ok... I don't really think we should debate that anyways.

We'll figure something we can debate about in the future. I really do want to debate you, lol. XD
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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3/24/2014 1:18:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 1:16:18 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 1:14:41 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 1:14:03 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:59:13 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:56:50 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:49:43 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:44:27 AM, kbub wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:34:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 3/24/2014 12:28:51 AM, kbub wrote:


Why? Did you want to debate me about something? :P

Got me airmax. I'm running for President!!!

haha I'm not exactly sure what that would have to do with me. You should send TUF a debate challenge. :P

I want you as my vice president.

haha I'm flattered, but I don't think you really want that... I have no experience in that role.

"Resolved: Airmax should run as my vice president"

I'll be con.

Send the challenge whenever you are ready.

It might be a while :/ There's kind of a queue of challenges that I've been meaning to get too....

That's ok... I don't really think we should debate that anyways.

We'll figure something we can debate about in the future. I really do want to debate you, lol. XD

Sounds good... Give it some thought. I'm more than happy to debate you if you come up with a good resolution.
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bsh1
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3/24/2014 2:13:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I mean, when I was a nooblet, I was still able to debate prominent members without losing due to bias. Really, I think as long as you comport yourself well, you should be fine.
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Linkish1O2
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3/24/2014 5:13:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
make some freinds, debate the newest people, keep making freinds, and when the time is right, begin debating the big shots. thats my strat anyway. but now days i dont care if i lose a debate, no big deal in losing, its not like they are going to make me change me argument anyway. so why worry about biast votes in the first place?
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Khaos_Mage
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3/24/2014 11:13:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 11:07:00 AM, kbub wrote:
a

Does this post your version of "bump"?
I've seen it a few times, so I am wondering.

Anywho....I would like to think that voters voting on a prominent member's debate would be less bias than normal, out of respect for said prominent member (assuming they are prominent for debating skills, not other reasons).

I would say take the debate and hope for the best.
Even if bias causes you to lose, surely there will be some non-bias votes you can hang your hat on (or hang your head).

I would say I would vote unbiased, which I am sure I would, if I were to vote.
But, in the unlikely event I do vote, you can be rest assured that I will do so unbiased.
My work here is, finally, done.
thett3
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3/24/2014 11:35:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Just go for it. Even if you lose due to bias...so what? It's annoying but at the end of the day it's just a meaningless score, whereas you can actually learn and grow intellectually from debates which has tangible benefits.
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sadolite
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3/24/2014 8:48:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:28:51 AM, kbub wrote:
If I were to debate one or more very prominent member(s) of DDO, would other DDO voters be able to without being biased?

I am thinking of accepting a debate(s), but I'm worried that people will vote for the individual(s) automatically: Perhaps because they trust the individual(s) to win.

What do you think? Should I accept, or will I lose by default?

People generally vote on the resolution, not the people debating. Especially If the resolution conflicts with the philosophical or political beliefs of the voter, you most likely wont get their vote regardless of how well you debate.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

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Fanath
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3/24/2014 8:58:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 12:28:51 AM, kbub wrote:
If I were to debate one or more very prominent member(s) of DDO, would other DDO voters be able to without being biased?

I am thinking of accepting a debate(s), but I'm worried that people will vote for the individual(s) automatically: Perhaps because they trust the individual(s) to win.

What do you think? Should I accept, or will I lose by default?

I'll debate you on something. Even though I'm not exactly famous on the site.

(yet lol)
Dude... Stop...
xXCryptoXx
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3/24/2014 9:31:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/24/2014 11:35:53 AM, thett3 wrote:
Just go for it. Even if you lose due to bias...so what? It's annoying but at the end of the day it's just a meaningless score, whereas you can actually learn and grow intellectually from debates which has tangible benefits.

^^^^ I agree with this ^^^^

Heck, you want to be a respected debater?

I respect a guy who takes a ton of fantastic debates, and even though he loses still does well over a guy who basically noob snipes debates but has a high ELO.
Nolite Timere
Skepsikyma
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3/24/2014 9:33:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would accept it; I'll even set aside time to vote, which I don't do nearly enough (shame on me). It's important to get members integrated into the debating community, and the best way is to challenge the upper crust.
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