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Petition for Vote System Changes

xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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3/26/2014 7:05:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have seen a lot of rallying on the subject of changing the vote system so that members can only vote on Arguments points instead of Arguments, Conduct, Spelling and Grammar, and Sources. This change would be implemented in order to eliminate strategic voting and hopefully produce fairer, better votes.

If this petition gets enough signatures I propose that TUF present the petition to Juggle so that they may have this brought to their attention as a project they may work on in the future.

For a great debate in order to help you decide where you stand on the issue, please read Roy's debate against Thett3: http://www.debate.org...
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Petition for Vote System Changes

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Nolite Timere
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/26/2014 7:08:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I gave a resounding argument for the existence of the conduct point, amusing psychology of this thread aside.
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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3/26/2014 7:09:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 7:05:15 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I have seen a lot of rallying on the subject of changing the vote system so that members can only vote on Arguments points instead of Arguments, Conduct, Spelling and Grammar, and Sources. This change would be implemented in order to eliminate strategic voting and hopefully produce fairer, better votes.

If this petition gets enough signatures I propose that TUF present the petition to Juggle so that they may have this brought to their attention as a project they may work on in the future.

For a great debate in order to help you decide where you stand on the issue, please read Roy's debate against Thett3: http://www.debate.org...
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Petition for Vote System Changes

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2. dtaylor971
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"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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3/26/2014 7:09:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There is a lot of controversy on the subject. I wonder if just having an option to set only argument points in the challenge period would be a better option.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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3/26/2014 7:13:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I highly agree with the presence of conduct awards, as without it any voter trying to punish terrible conduct, would be committing a basic Ad Hominem to vote based on such instead of the quality of the argument.
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(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

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And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
SeventhProfessor
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3/26/2014 7:17:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 7:09:38 PM, TUF wrote:
There is a lot of controversy on the subject. I wonder if just having an option to set only argument points in the challenge period would be a better option.

^^^
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xXCryptoXx
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3/26/2014 7:25:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 7:09:38 PM, TUF wrote:
There is a lot of controversy on the subject. I wonder if just having an option to set only argument points in the challenge period would be a better option.

Hm, I like that idea.
Nolite Timere
dtaylor971
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3/26/2014 7:35:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 7:09:38 PM, TUF wrote:
There is a lot of controversy on the subject. I wonder if just having an option to set only argument points in the challenge period would be a better option.

^ now why didn't I think of that...?
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
Blade-of-Truth
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3/26/2014 7:35:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
May I ask what the issue is against the Spelling & Grammar vote? Aside from non-English speaking users I don't see how that vote is a problem. Might someone enlighten me on why that is one that should go?
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ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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3/26/2014 7:39:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'll add my name to the petition.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

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xXCryptoXx
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3/26/2014 7:54:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 7:50:45 PM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
He is simply advertising the debate of Thett3 so it goes viral, much like Bluesteel did for Mikal. Don't fall for pretenses.

Nope
Nolite Timere
NiqashMotawadi3
Posts: 1,895
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3/26/2014 8:21:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 7:54:29 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/26/2014 7:50:45 PM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
He is simply advertising the debate of Thett3 so it goes viral, much like Bluesteel did for Mikal. Don't fall for pretenses.

Nope

We're not stupid, we can see patterns. There was no reason for you to put that link, you could just refer to the debate, or probably, not mention it at all.
xXCryptoXx
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3/26/2014 8:58:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 8:21:19 PM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 3/26/2014 7:54:29 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/26/2014 7:50:45 PM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
He is simply advertising the debate of Thett3 so it goes viral, much like Bluesteel did for Mikal. Don't fall for pretenses.

Nope

We're not stupid, we can see patterns. There was no reason for you to put that link, you could just refer to the debate, or probably, not mention it at all.

I stand by what I originally said.
Nolite Timere
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/26/2014 9:04:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 7:05:15 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I have seen a lot of rallying on the subject of changing the vote system so that members can only vote on Arguments points instead of Arguments, Conduct, Spelling and Grammar, and Sources. This change would be implemented in order to eliminate strategic voting and hopefully produce fairer, better votes.

If this petition gets enough signatures I propose that TUF present the petition to Juggle so that they may have this brought to their attention as a project they may work on in the future.

For a great debate in order to help you decide where you stand on the issue, please read Roy's debate against Thett3: http://www.debate.org...

Are you talking about a petition for a particular vote system? Or just a need for a change from the status quo?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
imabench
Posts: 21,219
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3/26/2014 9:08:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If Juggle is going to give an update the site I can think of like 10 better things it could be aimed at besides changing the voting system.
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dtaylor971
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3/26/2014 9:10:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 9:08:34 PM, imabench wrote:
If Juggle is going to give an update the site I can think of like 10 better things it could be aimed at besides changing the voting system.

Like...?
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
imabench
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3/26/2014 9:14:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 9:10:53 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 3/26/2014 9:08:34 PM, imabench wrote:
If Juggle is going to give an update the site I can think of like 10 better things it could be aimed at besides changing the voting system.

Like...?

- auto deletion of debates where both sides forfeit multiple times
- an additional voting section that features only debates between people of high elo's
- cap limit on how many polls someone can make in a day
- deletion of polls that have already been made in the past
- get rid of the opinions section outright
- allow for members to be part of their own clubs/groups/clans
- anything to get rid of those annoying errors that have been popping up a lot lately

I could think of a few more but im too tired right now
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
xXCryptoXx
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3/26/2014 9:14:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 9:04:20 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 3/26/2014 7:05:15 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
I have seen a lot of rallying on the subject of changing the vote system so that members can only vote on Arguments points instead of Arguments, Conduct, Spelling and Grammar, and Sources. This change would be implemented in order to eliminate strategic voting and hopefully produce fairer, better votes.

If this petition gets enough signatures I propose that TUF present the petition to Juggle so that they may have this brought to their attention as a project they may work on in the future.

For a great debate in order to help you decide where you stand on the issue, please read Roy's debate against Thett3: http://www.debate.org...

Are you talking about a petition for a particular vote system? Or just a need for a change from the status quo?

A system where the only vote category is the arguments category. The debate link exists to give you arguments for and against the proposition.
Nolite Timere
xXCryptoXx
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3/26/2014 9:14:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 9:08:34 PM, imabench wrote:
If Juggle is going to give an update the site I can think of like 10 better things it could be aimed at besides changing the voting system.

The purpose is to simply bring it up to juggle's attention.
Nolite Timere
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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3/26/2014 10:20:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 9:14:55 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/26/2014 9:08:34 PM, imabench wrote:
If Juggle is going to give an update the site I can think of like 10 better things it could be aimed at besides changing the voting system.

The purpose is to simply bring it up to juggle's attention.

For some reason, I doubt Juggle would pay attention.
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
thett3
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3/26/2014 10:26:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 10:20:39 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 3/26/2014 9:14:55 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/26/2014 9:08:34 PM, imabench wrote:
If Juggle is going to give an update the site I can think of like 10 better things it could be aimed at besides changing the voting system.

The purpose is to simply bring it up to juggle's attention.

For some reason, I doubt Juggle would pay attention.

That's not true actually, Juggle contacted me about a week ago about the voting system. What they seemed to be leaning in favor of was letting debaters choose a select panel of judges if they wanted and having their votes be up/down ballots but keeping the current system for all other debates
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bluesteel
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3/26/2014 10:26:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/26/2014 7:09:38 PM, TUF wrote:
There is a lot of controversy on the subject. I wonder if just having an option to set only argument points in the challenge period would be a better option.

That is at least better than no change, but you'll still have huge issues when top debaters who are for the multi-category system instigate a multi-category debate. But at least the benefit is that they can't complain about strategic voting on their debates then since they chose that option.

The only other question is which is the default option - multi- or single-category? 90% of the n00bs on the site select the default for the # of rounds and voting period, so it matters.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)