Total Posts:20|Showing Posts:1-20
Jump to topic:

Hiatus from debating

Mikal
Posts: 11,270
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 8:58:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am going to go on a temporary hiatus from debating, at least serious debates for a while. I possibly will hit up a rap battle or troll debate when they pop up but until the voting system is more balanced, I feel it is best to take a step back for a bit.

Once they update the voting system then I will take some serious ones again. This debate with roy (which was amazing), has shown me the importance of getting a better voting system.

7 point bombs in favor of someone are far to easy to justify.

Not taking a hiatus from the site or anything, so if you need me toss me a message or let me know. I am still going to be doing updates with Tuf and helping out anyway that I can.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:10:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I just sent Blue Steel a pm about voting changes about 3 minutes before you posted this, lol.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:13:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:10:26 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I just sent Blue Steel a pm about voting changes about 3 minutes before you posted this, lol.

I was totally for the 7 point system until I saw GWLs vote and that agnostic radar one. Then after reading thet3s debate with roy, I am absolutely advocating for a change.

I was literally mind blown how the debate was like 16 people to 10 and it was still a one point debate. Then after reading over that debate between roy and thet3, my entire opinion was swayed in favor of a 3 point point system.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:18:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:13:28 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:10:26 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I just sent Blue Steel a pm about voting changes about 3 minutes before you posted this, lol.

I was totally for the 7 point system until I saw GWLs vote and that agnostic radar one. Then after reading thet3s debate with roy, I am absolutely advocating for a change.

I was literally mind blown how the debate was like 16 people to 10 and it was still a one point debate. Then after reading over that debate between roy and thet3, my entire opinion was swayed in favor of a 3 point point system.

I would only ask that you (and every one for that matter) lock you support into a single idea. I'm going to try to gather several ideas so we can discuss what is best.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
YYW
Posts: 36,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:19:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 8:58:49 AM, Mikal wrote:
I am going to go on a temporary hiatus from debating, at least serious debates for a while. I possibly will hit up a rap battle or troll debate when they pop up but until the voting system is more balanced, I feel it is best to take a step back for a bit.

Once they update the voting system then I will take some serious ones again. This debate with roy (which was amazing), has shown me the importance of getting a better voting system.

7 point bombs in favor of someone are far to easy to justify.

Not taking a hiatus from the site or anything, so if you need me toss me a message or let me know. I am still going to be doing updates with Tuf and helping out anyway that I can.

The problem is not with the voting system, it is with voters who use the system. That is not to say that the system is perfect, or even good, and I'm sure that there are plenty of ways it could be improved, but your stoping doing something that you enjoy because there are people who refuse to cast ballots with integrity is really unfortunate for two reasons: (1) the voting system is not the reason why you got bad votes, and (2) even if Juggle updated the voting system to a simple win/loss ballot, there would still be equally bad votes cast.
Tsar of DDO
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:20:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:18:31 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:13:28 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:10:26 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I just sent Blue Steel a pm about voting changes about 3 minutes before you posted this, lol.

I was totally for the 7 point system until I saw GWLs vote and that agnostic radar one. Then after reading thet3s debate with roy, I am absolutely advocating for a change.

I was literally mind blown how the debate was like 16 people to 10 and it was still a one point debate. Then after reading over that debate between roy and thet3, my entire opinion was swayed in favor of a 3 point point system.

I would only ask that you (and every one for that matter) lock you support into a single idea. I'm going to try to gather several ideas so we can discuss what is best.

If you do a mass pm, add me to it or we can all google + later tonight or tiny chat. Get a group of people up who want this

you, thett3 , me, airmax, etc and lets get a group chat going around 9 pm tonight
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:20:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:20:24 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:18:31 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:13:28 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:10:26 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I just sent Blue Steel a pm about voting changes about 3 minutes before you posted this, lol.

I was totally for the 7 point system until I saw GWLs vote and that agnostic radar one. Then after reading thet3s debate with roy, I am absolutely advocating for a change.

I was literally mind blown how the debate was like 16 people to 10 and it was still a one point debate. Then after reading over that debate between roy and thet3, my entire opinion was swayed in favor of a 3 point point system.

I would only ask that you (and every one for that matter) lock you support into a single idea. I'm going to try to gather several ideas so we can discuss what is best.

If you do a mass pm, add me to it or we can all google + later tonight or tiny chat. Get a group of people up who want this

you, thett3 , me, airmax, etc and lets get a group chat going around 9 pm tonight

bluesteel*
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:23:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:19:42 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:58:49 AM, Mikal wrote:
I am going to go on a temporary hiatus from debating, at least serious debates for a while. I possibly will hit up a rap battle or troll debate when they pop up but until the voting system is more balanced, I feel it is best to take a step back for a bit.

Once they update the voting system then I will take some serious ones again. This debate with roy (which was amazing), has shown me the importance of getting a better voting system.

7 point bombs in favor of someone are far to easy to justify.

Not taking a hiatus from the site or anything, so if you need me toss me a message or let me know. I am still going to be doing updates with Tuf and helping out anyway that I can.

The problem is not with the voting system, it is with voters who use the system. That is not to say that the system is perfect, or even good, and I'm sure that there are plenty of ways it could be improved, but your stoping doing something that you enjoy because there are people who refuse to cast ballots with integrity is really unfortunate for two reasons: (1) the voting system is not the reason why you got bad votes, and (2) even if Juggle updated the voting system to a simple win/loss ballot, there would still be equally bad votes cast.

I agree , I just really am starting to believe that if you reduce the amount of damage someone could cause , it will mitigate some of the issue. I do think it will fix it, because at the root you are right. Bad voting is the issue, but that is something that will almost be impossible to fix without lots of bans on voting and since all you need is bias and the ability to right a stupid RFD, it will almost be impossible to fix

That 3 point system at least stops some of the damage

Earlier i was at 16 people to 10 on that DP debate, and I was loosing by one point. That is how bad the system can be abused now.
YYW
Posts: 36,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:23:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:18:31 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:13:28 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:10:26 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
I just sent Blue Steel a pm about voting changes about 3 minutes before you posted this, lol.

I was totally for the 7 point system until I saw GWLs vote and that agnostic radar one. Then after reading thet3s debate with roy, I am absolutely advocating for a change.

I was literally mind blown how the debate was like 16 people to 10 and it was still a one point debate. Then after reading over that debate between roy and thet3, my entire opinion was swayed in favor of a 3 point point system.

I would only ask that you (and every one for that matter) lock you support into a single idea. I'm going to try to gather several ideas so we can discuss what is best.

Bluesteel's idea, about only having a win/loss ballot, would probably be both the easiest to implement (I think?) and would reduce the ability of any one voter to harm others. It would totally negate the possibility of a vote bomb, as vote bombs (6 or 7 point wins/losses) exist presently. I'd support that idea, too -but it's still not going to change the fact that bad RFD's are still cast, people vote on debates they don't read/understand, and etc.
Tsar of DDO
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:25:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:19:42 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:58:49 AM, Mikal wrote:
I am going to go on a temporary hiatus from debating, at least serious debates for a while. I possibly will hit up a rap battle or troll debate when they pop up but until the voting system is more balanced, I feel it is best to take a step back for a bit.

Once they update the voting system then I will take some serious ones again. This debate with roy (which was amazing), has shown me the importance of getting a better voting system.

7 point bombs in favor of someone are far to easy to justify.

Not taking a hiatus from the site or anything, so if you need me toss me a message or let me know. I am still going to be doing updates with Tuf and helping out anyway that I can.

The problem is not with the voting system, it is with voters who use the system. That is not to say that the system is perfect, or even good, and I'm sure that there are plenty of ways it could be improved, but your stoping doing something that you enjoy because there are people who refuse to cast ballots with integrity is really unfortunate for two reasons: (1) the voting system is not the reason why you got bad votes, and (2) even if Juggle updated the voting system to a simple win/loss ballot, there would still be equally bad votes cast.

not*

write*

I am on my iphone lol, my bad
YYW
Posts: 36,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:25:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:23:33 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:19:42 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:58:49 AM, Mikal wrote:
I am going to go on a temporary hiatus from debating, at least serious debates for a while. I possibly will hit up a rap battle or troll debate when they pop up but until the voting system is more balanced, I feel it is best to take a step back for a bit.

Once they update the voting system then I will take some serious ones again. This debate with roy (which was amazing), has shown me the importance of getting a better voting system.

7 point bombs in favor of someone are far to easy to justify.

Not taking a hiatus from the site or anything, so if you need me toss me a message or let me know. I am still going to be doing updates with Tuf and helping out anyway that I can.

The problem is not with the voting system, it is with voters who use the system. That is not to say that the system is perfect, or even good, and I'm sure that there are plenty of ways it could be improved, but your stoping doing something that you enjoy because there are people who refuse to cast ballots with integrity is really unfortunate for two reasons: (1) the voting system is not the reason why you got bad votes, and (2) even if Juggle updated the voting system to a simple win/loss ballot, there would still be equally bad votes cast.

I agree , I just really am starting to believe that if you reduce the amount of damage someone could cause , it will mitigate some of the issue. I do think it will fix it, because at the root you are right. Bad voting is the issue, but that is something that will almost be impossible to fix without lots of bans on voting and since all you need is bias and the ability to right a stupid RFD, it will almost be impossible to fix

That 3 point system at least stops some of the damage

Earlier i was at 16 people to 10 on that DP debate, and I was loosing by one point. That is how bad the system can be abused now.

The win/loss ballot would do all of those things, yeah. The question then becomes, to keep points of any kind or not to keep points of any kind? (Points don't necessarily have to impact the win/loss record.)
Tsar of DDO
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:26:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:25:44 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:23:33 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:19:42 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:58:49 AM, Mikal wrote:
I am going to go on a temporary hiatus from debating, at least serious debates for a while. I possibly will hit up a rap battle or troll debate when they pop up but until the voting system is more balanced, I feel it is best to take a step back for a bit.

Once they update the voting system then I will take some serious ones again. This debate with roy (which was amazing), has shown me the importance of getting a better voting system.

7 point bombs in favor of someone are far to easy to justify.

Not taking a hiatus from the site or anything, so if you need me toss me a message or let me know. I am still going to be doing updates with Tuf and helping out anyway that I can.

The problem is not with the voting system, it is with voters who use the system. That is not to say that the system is perfect, or even good, and I'm sure that there are plenty of ways it could be improved, but your stoping doing something that you enjoy because there are people who refuse to cast ballots with integrity is really unfortunate for two reasons: (1) the voting system is not the reason why you got bad votes, and (2) even if Juggle updated the voting system to a simple win/loss ballot, there would still be equally bad votes cast.

I agree , I just really am starting to believe that if you reduce the amount of damage someone could cause , it will mitigate some of the issue. I do think it will fix it, because at the root you are right. Bad voting is the issue, but that is something that will almost be impossible to fix without lots of bans on voting and since all you need is bias and the ability to right a stupid RFD, it will almost be impossible to fix

That 3 point system at least stops some of the damage

Earlier i was at 16 people to 10 on that DP debate, and I was loosing by one point. That is how bad the system can be abused now.

The win/loss ballot would do all of those things, yeah. The question then becomes, to keep points of any kind or not to keep points of any kind? (Points don't necessarily have to impact the win/loss record.)

I have no read this idea, what is the basics of it ? (about to go to work so if I do not respond, that is why)
YYW
Posts: 36,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:32:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:26:42 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:25:44 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:23:33 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:19:42 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:58:49 AM, Mikal wrote:
I am going to go on a temporary hiatus from debating, at least serious debates for a while. I possibly will hit up a rap battle or troll debate when they pop up but until the voting system is more balanced, I feel it is best to take a step back for a bit.

Once they update the voting system then I will take some serious ones again. This debate with roy (which was amazing), has shown me the importance of getting a better voting system.

7 point bombs in favor of someone are far to easy to justify.

Not taking a hiatus from the site or anything, so if you need me toss me a message or let me know. I am still going to be doing updates with Tuf and helping out anyway that I can.

The problem is not with the voting system, it is with voters who use the system. That is not to say that the system is perfect, or even good, and I'm sure that there are plenty of ways it could be improved, but your stoping doing something that you enjoy because there are people who refuse to cast ballots with integrity is really unfortunate for two reasons: (1) the voting system is not the reason why you got bad votes, and (2) even if Juggle updated the voting system to a simple win/loss ballot, there would still be equally bad votes cast.

I agree , I just really am starting to believe that if you reduce the amount of damage someone could cause , it will mitigate some of the issue. I do think it will fix it, because at the root you are right. Bad voting is the issue, but that is something that will almost be impossible to fix without lots of bans on voting and since all you need is bias and the ability to right a stupid RFD, it will almost be impossible to fix

That 3 point system at least stops some of the damage

Earlier i was at 16 people to 10 on that DP debate, and I was loosing by one point. That is how bad the system can be abused now.

The win/loss ballot would do all of those things, yeah. The question then becomes, to keep points of any kind or not to keep points of any kind? (Points don't necessarily have to impact the win/loss record.)

I have no read this idea, what is the basics of it ? (about to go to work so if I do not respond, that is why)

Bluesteel's idea was to only have voters decide on a win or a loss. That's it. It's simple enough, and it would make it impossible for any one voter to have any more influence than any other voter. I think that's a pretty good idea, if the objective is to prevent ballots like GWL-CPA's on your Death Penalty debate.

So, the ballot might look something like this:

"Which side was more convincing?"

PRO or CON

There would only be a tally for the number of votes cast for one side or another, to determine who won.

The other possibility is something like:

Which side was more convincing?

PRO or CON

On a scale of 1-10, please rate the quality of each argument:

(In this case, voters could award points based on the extent to which they felt the arguments were well written. This would have no impact on wins/losses.)
Tsar of DDO
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:33:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:32:06 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:26:42 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:25:44 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:23:33 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:19:42 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:58:49 AM, Mikal wrote:
I am going to go on a temporary hiatus from debating, at least serious debates for a while. I possibly will hit up a rap battle or troll debate when they pop up but until the voting system is more balanced, I feel it is best to take a step back for a bit.

Once they update the voting system then I will take some serious ones again. This debate with roy (which was amazing), has shown me the importance of getting a better voting system.

7 point bombs in favor of someone are far to easy to justify.

Not taking a hiatus from the site or anything, so if you need me toss me a message or let me know. I am still going to be doing updates with Tuf and helping out anyway that I can.

The problem is not with the voting system, it is with voters who use the system. That is not to say that the system is perfect, or even good, and I'm sure that there are plenty of ways it could be improved, but your stoping doing something that you enjoy because there are people who refuse to cast ballots with integrity is really unfortunate for two reasons: (1) the voting system is not the reason why you got bad votes, and (2) even if Juggle updated the voting system to a simple win/loss ballot, there would still be equally bad votes cast.

I agree , I just really am starting to believe that if you reduce the amount of damage someone could cause , it will mitigate some of the issue. I do think it will fix it, because at the root you are right. Bad voting is the issue, but that is something that will almost be impossible to fix without lots of bans on voting and since all you need is bias and the ability to right a stupid RFD, it will almost be impossible to fix

That 3 point system at least stops some of the damage

Earlier i was at 16 people to 10 on that DP debate, and I was loosing by one point. That is how bad the system can be abused now.

The win/loss ballot would do all of those things, yeah. The question then becomes, to keep points of any kind or not to keep points of any kind? (Points don't necessarily have to impact the win/loss record.)

I have no read this idea, what is the basics of it ? (about to go to work so if I do not respond, that is why)

Bluesteel's idea was to only have voters decide on a win or a loss. That's it. It's simple enough, and it would make it impossible for any one voter to have any more influence than any other voter. I think that's a pretty good idea, if the objective is to prevent ballots like GWL-CPA's on your Death Penalty debate.

So, the ballot might look something like this:

"Which side was more convincing?"

PRO or CON

There would only be a tally for the number of votes cast for one side or another, to determine who won.

The other possibility is something like:

Which side was more convincing?

PRO or CON

On a scale of 1-10, please rate the quality of each argument:

(In this case, voters could award points based on the extent to which they felt the arguments were well written. This would have no impact on wins/losses.)

that could work as well
YYW
Posts: 36,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 9:35:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:33:22 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:32:06 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:26:42 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:25:44 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:23:33 AM, Mikal wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:19:42 AM, YYW wrote:
At 3/27/2014 8:58:49 AM, Mikal wrote:
I am going to go on a temporary hiatus from debating, at least serious debates for a while. I possibly will hit up a rap battle or troll debate when they pop up but until the voting system is more balanced, I feel it is best to take a step back for a bit.

Once they update the voting system then I will take some serious ones again. This debate with roy (which was amazing), has shown me the importance of getting a better voting system.

7 point bombs in favor of someone are far to easy to justify.

Not taking a hiatus from the site or anything, so if you need me toss me a message or let me know. I am still going to be doing updates with Tuf and helping out anyway that I can.

The problem is not with the voting system, it is with voters who use the system. That is not to say that the system is perfect, or even good, and I'm sure that there are plenty of ways it could be improved, but your stoping doing something that you enjoy because there are people who refuse to cast ballots with integrity is really unfortunate for two reasons: (1) the voting system is not the reason why you got bad votes, and (2) even if Juggle updated the voting system to a simple win/loss ballot, there would still be equally bad votes cast.

I agree , I just really am starting to believe that if you reduce the amount of damage someone could cause , it will mitigate some of the issue. I do think it will fix it, because at the root you are right. Bad voting is the issue, but that is something that will almost be impossible to fix without lots of bans on voting and since all you need is bias and the ability to right a stupid RFD, it will almost be impossible to fix

That 3 point system at least stops some of the damage

Earlier i was at 16 people to 10 on that DP debate, and I was loosing by one point. That is how bad the system can be abused now.

The win/loss ballot would do all of those things, yeah. The question then becomes, to keep points of any kind or not to keep points of any kind? (Points don't necessarily have to impact the win/loss record.)

I have no read this idea, what is the basics of it ? (about to go to work so if I do not respond, that is why)

Bluesteel's idea was to only have voters decide on a win or a loss. That's it. It's simple enough, and it would make it impossible for any one voter to have any more influence than any other voter. I think that's a pretty good idea, if the objective is to prevent ballots like GWL-CPA's on your Death Penalty debate.

So, the ballot might look something like this:

"Which side was more convincing?"

PRO or CON

There would only be a tally for the number of votes cast for one side or another, to determine who won.

The other possibility is something like:

Which side was more convincing?

PRO or CON

On a scale of 1-10, please rate the quality of each argument:

(In this case, voters could award points based on the extent to which they felt the arguments were well written. This would have no impact on wins/losses.)

that could work as well

It would be interesting to see, and I think the first idea is probably both easier to implement and therefore more likely to be implemented than the latter. But, that opinion has to be qualified because I don't really know a whole lot about what kind of work would be required to implement either.
Tsar of DDO
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 2:35:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 9:32:06 AM, YYW wrote:
Which side was more convincing?

PRO or CON

On a scale of 1-10, please rate the quality of each argument:

(In this case, voters could award points based on the extent to which they felt the arguments were well written. This would have no impact on wins/losses.)

Like.

This gives me an idea for another option. You could have some system for the debaters to list each argument that they made in the debate that they want judges to evaluate and then require that judges address each one in their RFD.

One possible way of implementing this would be:

1. The last round of the debate finishes.
2. DDO prompts the instigator to list all the main contentions he made.
3. DDO prompts the contender to list all the main contentions he made.
4. Judge's would be prompted like this:

The side that did the better debating was [Pro or Con]"

RFD:

Pro

Argument #1: Cost

{write your RFD here for cost - either why you thought it was convincing or was not convincing} [mandatory field]

Argument #2: _______

{insert RFD} [mandatory field]

Con

Argument #1: __________

{insert RFD} [mandatory field]

^This would basically give people the option of forcing judges to evaluate every single argument in the debate if they want to vote. It is similar to a "special verdict" in the legal world. I'm sure everyone knows what a "general verdict" is -- e.g. a jury votes guilty or not guilty in a criminal case. *But* the attorneys can request a special verdict that asks the jury to decide separately on each essential element. So for murder [A is accused of murdering B], a special verdict might ask: (1) Did the prosecution prove beyond a reasonable doubt that B was killed by another human being? (2) Did the prosecution prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the identity of the person who killed B was A? (3) If so, did the prosecution prove beyond a reasonable doubt that A *intentionally* killed B? (4) If so, did the prosecution prove beyond a reasonable doubt that A was not acting in self-defense?

So people could select before the debate even starts whether they want to require judges to evaluate every single argument or just issue a general "I was more convinced by X side because of Y."

There are a lot of proposals floating around. My preference is for an argument-only system for everyone. Barring that, my preference is for a system that allows the instigator to select between the current system and an argument-only system. That way, if strategic voting happens, instigators have only themselves to blame for selecting the 7-point system.

Hopefully Juggle could implement this relatively quickly. If not, in the very near term I'd like to see a real tightening in moderation policy regarding when it is appropriate to vote on sources, conduct, and S&G, and stricter moderation of argument RFD's. There should be a proposal on this floating around soon.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
YYW
Posts: 36,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 2:40:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 2:35:11 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 3/27/2014 9:32:06 AM, YYW wrote:
Which side was more convincing?

PRO or CON

On a scale of 1-10, please rate the quality of each argument:

(In this case, voters could award points based on the extent to which they felt the arguments were well written. This would have no impact on wins/losses.)

Like.

This gives me an idea for another option. You could have some system for the debaters to list each argument that they made in the debate that they want judges to evaluate and then require that judges address each one in their RFD.

I know that a lot of debaters, especially the ones who have historically competed in the NFL/NCFL already cover voter issues in their concluding remarks -and they probably should. It would be nice to actually see how judges interacted with those arguments in the RFD, and one means to that end might be to increase RFD character space two or three fold. I know that many already do RFD's in comments, but I don't think that should be necessary.

There are a lot of proposals floating around. My preference is for an argument-only system for everyone.

As is mine, because the standard/ballot should be the same across the board.

Hopefully Juggle could implement this relatively quickly. If not, in the very near term I'd like to see a real tightening in moderation policy regarding when it is appropriate to vote on sources, conduct, and S&G, and stricter moderation of argument RFD's. There should be a proposal on this floating around soon.
Tsar of DDO
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 2:48:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 8:58:49 AM, Mikal wrote:
I am going to go on a temporary hiatus from debating, at least serious debates for a while. I possibly will hit up a rap battle or troll debate when they pop up but until the voting system is more balanced, I feel it is best to take a step back for a bit.

Once they update the voting system then I will take some serious ones again. This debate with roy (which was amazing), has shown me the importance of getting a better voting system.

7 point bombs in favor of someone are far to easy to justify.

Not taking a hiatus from the site or anything, so if you need me toss me a message or let me know. I am still going to be doing updates with Tuf and helping out anyway that I can.

I guess I'll have to wait to debate you then, lol.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/27/2014 4:09:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 8:58:49 AM, Mikal wrote:
I am going to go on a temporary hiatus from debating, at least serious debates for a while. I possibly will hit up a rap battle or troll debate when they pop up but until the voting system is more balanced, I feel it is best to take a step back for a bit.

Once they update the voting system then I will take some serious ones again. This debate with roy (which was amazing), has shown me the importance of getting a better voting system.

7 point bombs in favor of someone are far to easy to justify.

Not taking a hiatus from the site or anything, so if you need me toss me a message or let me know. I am still going to be doing updates with Tuf and helping out anyway that I can.

I read the first round of roy/thett3's debate, and I'm convinced a hybrid system can work, i.e. a multi-category ballot much like the current system with a "bottom line" determining the winner, and only that bottom line gets a score, and that score being "one point".

I think that would address what Roy brought up, even though in principle I am very much for a one-vote, one-point system.

Regarding "serious debate", you can still do them without taking the voting seriously...just do "no scoring" debates. I think I'm the only person on this website that does them, and I will most certainly say that the feedback and discussion I've received from people who actually took the time to read the debate and leave a detailed RFD is proportionally much, much better than the feedback I received when I did scoring debates.

Most people get far too emotionally attached to their votes or vice versa, the debater gets far too emotionally attached to their arguments, and a fisticuffs ensues. Getting rid of scoring altogether and prioritizing the RFD eliminates the drama, and most of the drama on this website stems from people getting offended at votes for one reason or another, usually because they place far too much emphasis on the scoring. After a while, the drama takes a life of its own and no one cares about the debate, and IMHO that's a problem.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?