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Well, I guess it's for good this time...

progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/31/2014 5:59:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

This saddens me deeply.
Good luck, then.
My work here is, finally, done.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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3/31/2014 6:00:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Godspeed, Paul.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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3/31/2014 6:01:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 5:59:36 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

This saddens me deeply.
Good luck, then.

Same to you, man. I always enjoyed our discussions, even though we never agreed on anything haha.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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3/31/2014 6:02:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 6:01:09 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/31/2014 5:59:36 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

This saddens me deeply.
Good luck, then.

Same to you, man. I always enjoyed our discussions, even though we never agreed on anything haha.

Well, there was that one thing, that one time.... we'll always have that.
My work here is, finally, done.
Subutai
Posts: 3,150
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3/31/2014 7:46:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

What is happening? This site is turning worse and worse just today. One senior member has been banned and two are leaving. We're letting the idiots win.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
Complicated_Mind
Posts: 367
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3/31/2014 7:47:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Never got to know you, or thank you for sending me a friend request. But you seem like a cool guy, so I feel it appropriate to bid you a polite farewell wishing you good luck.
YYW
Posts: 36,243
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3/31/2014 8:03:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

The site has lost some of it's appeal, but the only way to increase the academic rigor is to post really good, high quality content that will spur the kinds of conversations you want to have. That's why I wrote the threads I have linked in my signature.

Right now, the site faces a number of challenges. There is a myriad of worthless users who pollute the forums right now, but Airmax isn't going to ban them -for reasons that are beyond the scope of this thread. If we want the site to be better, we have to make it better. Leaving it doesn't solve the problem, and you're not going to find something else better than this on the internet... at least not now.

I believe that this site's culture should filter out those members. I believe that we shouldn't interact with those members whose very presence here makes it worse for all of us. The old adage: "don't feed the trolls" has some inherent wisdom in it. The more we talk with people whose sole objective it is to ruin this site and make all of our times here less worthwhile, the more we incentivize their malfeasance. The only way to curtail that is to ignore the bastards, the trolls and the worthless people who are here, focus on the good members and make this site what you want it to be.
TUF
Posts: 21,297
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3/31/2014 8:04:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 8:03:04 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

The site has lost some of it's appeal, but the only way to increase the academic rigor is to post really good, high quality content that will spur the kinds of conversations you want to have. That's why I wrote the threads I have linked in my signature.

Right now, the site faces a number of challenges. There is a myriad of worthless users who pollute the forums right now, but Airmax isn't going to ban them -for reasons that are beyond the scope of this thread. If we want the site to be better, we have to make it better. Leaving it doesn't solve the problem, and you're not going to find something else better than this on the internet... at least not now.

I believe that this site's culture should filter out those members. I believe that we shouldn't interact with those members whose very presence here makes it worse for all of us. The old adage: "don't feed the trolls" has some inherent wisdom in it. The more we talk with people whose sole objective it is to ruin this site and make all of our times here less worthwhile, the more we incentivize their malfeasance. The only way to curtail that is to ignore the bastards, the trolls and the worthless people who are here, focus on the good members and make this site what you want it to be.

I think this was pretty properly worded, and I agree.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
RiskTaker
Posts: 245
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3/31/2014 8:05:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 8:03:04 PM, YYW wrote:
The only way to curtail that is to ignore the bastards, the trolls and the worthless people who are here, focus on the good members and make this site what you want it to be.

what makes you think you are qualified to judge?
YYW
Posts: 36,243
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3/31/2014 8:12:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 8:05:52 PM, RiskTaker wrote:
At 3/31/2014 8:03:04 PM, YYW wrote:
The only way to curtail that is to ignore the bastards, the trolls and the worthless people who are here, focus on the good members and make this site what you want it to be.

what makes you think you are qualified to judge?

A fantastic question, actually. I think I have objectives for this site, and I think there are a lot of people who share that common vision. I know TUF, Thett, Bsh1, Mikil, Airmax, Bluesteel, ClassicRobert, EndarkenedRationalist, Raisor, phantom and so many others share those same basic ideal. We want a site where we can talk about the stuff we find interesting, socialize, share ideas and where we will find others who want to do the same.

But with that said, I think every person should take responsibility for themselves, and make their own decisions about how to use their time. If we see a member whose very presence on this site is caustic to other members, than that's a pretty damn good reason to ignore that member and move on to more important things. They are not worth the time it would take to type up a response...
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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3/31/2014 8:39:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 8:03:04 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

The site has lost some of it's appeal, but the only way to increase the academic rigor is to post really good, high quality content that will spur the kinds of conversations you want to have. That's why I wrote the threads I have linked in my signature.

Right now, the site faces a number of challenges. There is a myriad of worthless users who pollute the forums right now, but Airmax isn't going to ban them -for reasons that are beyond the scope of this thread. If we want the site to be better, we have to make it better. Leaving it doesn't solve the problem, and you're not going to find something else better than this on the internet... at least not now.

I believe that this site's culture should filter out those members. I believe that we shouldn't interact with those members whose very presence here makes it worse for all of us. The old adage: "don't feed the trolls" has some inherent wisdom in it. The more we talk with people whose sole objective it is to ruin this site and make all of our times here less worthwhile, the more we incentivize their malfeasance. The only way to curtail that is to ignore the bastards, the trolls and the worthless people who are here, focus on the good members and make this site what you want it to be.

You raise a lot of really good points, and generally I agree with you. My problem ultimately is that it was virtually impossible, working within the system, to do anything about it even when before this new rule. When I see polls to the effect of "Is bestiality ok?" or "Why do atheists hate God?" I realize how powerless we all actually are. I'm all either filtering out the destructive members -- that is, having harsher penalties for poor conduct -- and changing the culture, but I can't imagine how we'd do that at this point. It's a great end, but the problem is determining the means.
Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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3/31/2014 8:47:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

Noooooo!!! Why are all our high quality members leaving? It was supposed to be the bad ones that left...

Oh well...
The best of luck to you.
I'll miss you, bud :(
YYW
Posts: 36,243
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3/31/2014 8:47:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 8:39:53 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/31/2014 8:03:04 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

The site has lost some of it's appeal, but the only way to increase the academic rigor is to post really good, high quality content that will spur the kinds of conversations you want to have. That's why I wrote the threads I have linked in my signature.

Right now, the site faces a number of challenges. There is a myriad of worthless users who pollute the forums right now, but Airmax isn't going to ban them -for reasons that are beyond the scope of this thread. If we want the site to be better, we have to make it better. Leaving it doesn't solve the problem, and you're not going to find something else better than this on the internet... at least not now.

I believe that this site's culture should filter out those members. I believe that we shouldn't interact with those members whose very presence here makes it worse for all of us. The old adage: "don't feed the trolls" has some inherent wisdom in it. The more we talk with people whose sole objective it is to ruin this site and make all of our times here less worthwhile, the more we incentivize their malfeasance. The only way to curtail that is to ignore the bastards, the trolls and the worthless people who are here, focus on the good members and make this site what you want it to be.

You raise a lot of really good points, and generally I agree with you. My problem ultimately is that it was virtually impossible, working within the system, to do anything about it even when before this new rule. When I see polls to the effect of "Is bestiality ok?" or "Why do atheists hate God?" I realize how powerless we all actually are. I'm all either filtering out the destructive members -- that is, having harsher penalties for poor conduct -- and changing the culture, but I can't imagine how we'd do that at this point. It's a great end, but the problem is determining the means.

The method:

1. Post really high quality threads/responses/content.
2. Ignore/blacklist trolls/malevolent users.

The first is to up the intellectual stake such that "permission to play" is higher than they are capable of. So, the people who came to the forums/debates through the opinion/polls section will either behave or fvck off.

The second is to remove the incentive that people who only want to hurt other users and make all of our lives miserable have to be here. If we ignore them, they will go away. But, that requires collective action.
bubbatheclown
Posts: 1,258
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3/31/2014 9:04:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

Farewell, and it's probable that at least one or two members of this Site will take notice of your absence.
RiskTaker
Posts: 245
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3/31/2014 9:20:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 8:12:02 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/31/2014 8:05:52 PM, RiskTaker wrote:
At 3/31/2014 8:03:04 PM, YYW wrote:
The only way to curtail that is to ignore the bastards, the trolls and the worthless people who are here, focus on the good members and make this site what you want it to be.

what makes you think you are qualified to judge?

A fantastic question, actually. I think I have objectives for this site, and I think there are a lot of people who share that common vision. I know TUF, Thett, Bsh1, Mikil, Airmax, Bluesteel, ClassicRobert, EndarkenedRationalist, Raisor, phantom and so many others share those same basic ideal. We want a site where we can talk about the stuff we find interesting, socialize, share ideas and where we will find others who want to do the same.

But with that said, I think every person should take responsibility for themselves, and make their own decisions about how to use their time. If we see a member whose very presence on this site is caustic to other members, than that's a pretty damn good reason to ignore that member and move on to more important things. They are not worth the time it would take to type up a response...

So those with a different vision of DDO to you (and your friends) are wrong?
YYW
Posts: 36,243
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3/31/2014 9:22:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 9:20:12 PM, RiskTaker wrote:
At 3/31/2014 8:12:02 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/31/2014 8:05:52 PM, RiskTaker wrote:
At 3/31/2014 8:03:04 PM, YYW wrote:
The only way to curtail that is to ignore the bastards, the trolls and the worthless people who are here, focus on the good members and make this site what you want it to be.

what makes you think you are qualified to judge?

A fantastic question, actually. I think I have objectives for this site, and I think there are a lot of people who share that common vision. I know TUF, Thett, Bsh1, Mikil, Airmax, Bluesteel, ClassicRobert, EndarkenedRationalist, Raisor, phantom and so many others share those same basic ideal. We want a site where we can talk about the stuff we find interesting, socialize, share ideas and where we will find others who want to do the same.

But with that said, I think every person should take responsibility for themselves, and make their own decisions about how to use their time. If we see a member whose very presence on this site is caustic to other members, than that's a pretty damn good reason to ignore that member and move on to more important things. They are not worth the time it would take to type up a response...

So those with a different vision of DDO to you (and your friends) are wrong?

Wrong? That might be a hard claim to ground.
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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3/31/2014 9:43:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

It was nice debating with you about the topics we've discussed. Though, could you take a step back to our discussion earlier. Remember those things you said to me? Did you see me report you for that. It was understandable of where you were coming from. Though it wasn't like you were saying I was racist or foolish for no reason. You simply didn't agree with my logic. The difference between what you said and what would be considered personal attacks is you didn't go on a personal vandetta. Meaning, you weren't attacking my character, you were attacking my understanding. Which was understandable coming from your viewpoint. This being said, if you are able to do this then what is there to leave for?
GodChoosesLife
Posts: 3,461
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3/31/2014 9:48:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Idk how long I can literally hold in the cries that ready to burst out.. This is really saddening to me.. I actually felt connected to those that have left and are leaving.. Why?...

*looks away and wipes a tear away* :(
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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3/31/2014 9:51:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 9:43:32 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

It was nice debating with you about the topics we've discussed. Though, could you take a step back to our discussion earlier. Remember those things you said to me? Did you see me report you for that. It was understandable of where you were coming from. Though it wasn't like you were saying I was racist or foolish for no reason. You simply didn't agree with my logic. The difference between what you said and what would be considered personal attacks is you didn't go on a personal vandetta. Meaning, you weren't attacking my character, you were attacking my understanding. Which was understandable coming from your viewpoint. This being said, if you are able to do this then what is there to leave for?

To be fair, you said in reference to Ted Cruz's eligibility that "well, an African can inhabit the WH, so anything is possible." My point was, there isn't any evidence behind that whatsoever. Birtherism was an inherently racist movement pushed by Trump, Palin, et al. in an attempt to discredit Obama as "the other." The problem is, it has no factual basis, and is as fringe as it is. Now, clinging to birtherism doesn't make you a racist, but I do think your position nevertheless is.

But I wasn't thinking of our discussion when I decided to leave, nor was it a last-minute thing. I've been considering it for quite some time.
blaze8
Posts: 164
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3/31/2014 9:57:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is depressing. I enjoyed our debate on Citizens United, and thought you to be an intelligent debater with an excellent head for issues. Good luck with your future endeavors!
"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."-Sterling Archer
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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3/31/2014 9:58:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 9:51:16 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/31/2014 9:43:32 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

It was nice debating with you about the topics we've discussed. Though, could you take a step back to our discussion earlier. Remember those things you said to me? Did you see me report you for that. It was understandable of where you were coming from. Though it wasn't like you were saying I was racist or foolish for no reason. You simply didn't agree with my logic. The difference between what you said and what would be considered personal attacks is you didn't go on a personal vandetta. Meaning, you weren't attacking my character, you were attacking my understanding. Which was understandable coming from your viewpoint. This being said, if you are able to do this then what is there to leave for?

To be fair, you said in reference to Ted Cruz's eligibility that "well, an African can inhabit the WH, so anything is possible." My point was, there isn't any evidence behind that whatsoever. Birtherism was an inherently racist movement pushed by Trump, Palin, et al. in an attempt to discredit Obama as "the other." The problem is, it has no factual basis, and is as fringe as it is. Now, clinging to birtherism doesn't make you a racist, but I do think your position nevertheless is.

But I wasn't thinking of our discussion when I decided to leave, nor was it a last-minute thing. I've been considering it for quite some time.

My point though is, if you are able to disagree like this, what do you have to leave for?
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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3/31/2014 10:05:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 9:58:25 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/31/2014 9:51:16 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/31/2014 9:43:32 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

It was nice debating with you about the topics we've discussed. Though, could you take a step back to our discussion earlier. Remember those things you said to me? Did you see me report you for that. It was understandable of where you were coming from. Though it wasn't like you were saying I was racist or foolish for no reason. You simply didn't agree with my logic. The difference between what you said and what would be considered personal attacks is you didn't go on a personal vandetta. Meaning, you weren't attacking my character, you were attacking my understanding. Which was understandable coming from your viewpoint. This being said, if you are able to do this then what is there to leave for?

To be fair, you said in reference to Ted Cruz's eligibility that "well, an African can inhabit the WH, so anything is possible." My point was, there isn't any evidence behind that whatsoever. Birtherism was an inherently racist movement pushed by Trump, Palin, et al. in an attempt to discredit Obama as "the other." The problem is, it has no factual basis, and is as fringe as it is. Now, clinging to birtherism doesn't make you a racist, but I do think your position nevertheless is.

But I wasn't thinking of our discussion when I decided to leave, nor was it a last-minute thing. I've been considering it for quite some time.

My point though is, if you are able to disagree like this, what do you have to leave for?

Well, there are a few reasons, really: polls section, trolling, new site rule, other engagements, etc.
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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3/31/2014 10:23:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 10:05:10 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/31/2014 9:58:25 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/31/2014 9:51:16 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/31/2014 9:43:32 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

It was nice debating with you about the topics we've discussed. Though, could you take a step back to our discussion earlier. Remember those things you said to me? Did you see me report you for that. It was understandable of where you were coming from. Though it wasn't like you were saying I was racist or foolish for no reason. You simply didn't agree with my logic. The difference between what you said and what would be considered personal attacks is you didn't go on a personal vandetta. Meaning, you weren't attacking my character, you were attacking my understanding. Which was understandable coming from your viewpoint. This being said, if you are able to do this then what is there to leave for?

To be fair, you said in reference to Ted Cruz's eligibility that "well, an African can inhabit the WH, so anything is possible." My point was, there isn't any evidence behind that whatsoever. Birtherism was an inherently racist movement pushed by Trump, Palin, et al. in an attempt to discredit Obama as "the other." The problem is, it has no factual basis, and is as fringe as it is. Now, clinging to birtherism doesn't make you a racist, but I do think your position nevertheless is.

But I wasn't thinking of our discussion when I decided to leave, nor was it a last-minute thing. I've been considering it for quite some time.

My point though is, if you are able to disagree like this, what do you have to leave for?

Well, there are a few reasons, really: polls section, trolling, new site rule, other engagements, etc.

So, you are just frustrated with the website all around. Well, all I can tell you is despite whatever you may think of me (if you do think anything bad about me) I really appreciated debating with you. To be honest, it would be nice if I had someone to debate with like you about politics. Speaking on this note, this reminds me Hanity and Colmes. If it wasn't for Colmes, Sean Hanity wouldn't be where he is today. Likewise for Colmes.This being said without both the left wing and the right wing the eagle can't fly. On this note, I have much respect for you and wish you well on your journey in life. In all sincerity I say this.
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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3/31/2014 10:31:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 10:23:59 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/31/2014 10:05:10 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/31/2014 9:58:25 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/31/2014 9:51:16 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 3/31/2014 9:43:32 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

It was nice debating with you about the topics we've discussed. Though, could you take a step back to our discussion earlier. Remember those things you said to me? Did you see me report you for that. It was understandable of where you were coming from. Though it wasn't like you were saying I was racist or foolish for no reason. You simply didn't agree with my logic. The difference between what you said and what would be considered personal attacks is you didn't go on a personal vandetta. Meaning, you weren't attacking my character, you were attacking my understanding. Which was understandable coming from your viewpoint. This being said, if you are able to do this then what is there to leave for?

To be fair, you said in reference to Ted Cruz's eligibility that "well, an African can inhabit the WH, so anything is possible." My point was, there isn't any evidence behind that whatsoever. Birtherism was an inherently racist movement pushed by Trump, Palin, et al. in an attempt to discredit Obama as "the other." The problem is, it has no factual basis, and is as fringe as it is. Now, clinging to birtherism doesn't make you a racist, but I do think your position nevertheless is.

But I wasn't thinking of our discussion when I decided to leave, nor was it a last-minute thing. I've been considering it for quite some time.

My point though is, if you are able to disagree like this, what do you have to leave for?

Well, there are a few reasons, really: polls section, trolling, new site rule, other engagements, etc.

So, you are just frustrated with the website all around. Well, all I can tell you is despite whatever you may think of me (if you do think anything bad about me) I really appreciated debating with you. To be honest, it would be nice if I had someone to debate with like you about politics. Speaking on this note, this reminds me Hanity and Colmes. If it wasn't for Colmes, Sean Hanity wouldn't be where he is today. Likewise for Colmes.This being said without both the left wing and the right wing the eagle can't fly. On this note, I have much respect for you and wish you well on your journey in life. In all sincerity I say this.

Aw, I remember Hannity and Colmes -- I actually just went and watched an old video of them lol.

No ill will whatsoever. Best of luck to you, as well.
orangemayhem
Posts: 333
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4/1/2014 2:29:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 8:03:04 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

The site has lost some of it's appeal, but the only way to increase the academic rigor is to post really good, high quality content that will spur the kinds of conversations you want to have. That's why I wrote the threads I have linked in my signature.

Right now, the site faces a number of challenges. There is a myriad of worthless users who pollute the forums right now, but Airmax isn't going to ban them -for reasons that are beyond the scope of this thread. If we want the site to be better, we have to make it better. Leaving it doesn't solve the problem, and you're not going to find something else better than this on the internet... at least not now.

I believe that this site's culture should filter out those members. I believe that we shouldn't interact with those members whose very presence here makes it worse for all of us. The old adage: "don't feed the trolls" has some inherent wisdom in it. The more we talk with people whose sole objective it is to ruin this site and make all of our times here less worthwhile, the more we incentivize their malfeasance. The only way to curtail that is to ignore the bastards, the trolls and the worthless people who are here, focus on the good members and make this site what you want it to be.

Just wanna thank you (and progressivedem too) for inspiring me to make this thread:
http://www.debate.org...
I'm back (ish).
YYW
Posts: 36,243
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4/1/2014 3:17:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/1/2014 2:29:35 PM, orangemayhem wrote:
At 3/31/2014 8:03:04 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

The site has lost some of it's appeal, but the only way to increase the academic rigor is to post really good, high quality content that will spur the kinds of conversations you want to have. That's why I wrote the threads I have linked in my signature.

Right now, the site faces a number of challenges. There is a myriad of worthless users who pollute the forums right now, but Airmax isn't going to ban them -for reasons that are beyond the scope of this thread. If we want the site to be better, we have to make it better. Leaving it doesn't solve the problem, and you're not going to find something else better than this on the internet... at least not now.

I believe that this site's culture should filter out those members. I believe that we shouldn't interact with those members whose very presence here makes it worse for all of us. The old adage: "don't feed the trolls" has some inherent wisdom in it. The more we talk with people whose sole objective it is to ruin this site and make all of our times here less worthwhile, the more we incentivize their malfeasance. The only way to curtail that is to ignore the bastards, the trolls and the worthless people who are here, focus on the good members and make this site what you want it to be.

Just wanna thank you (and progressivedem too) for inspiring me to make this thread:
http://www.debate.org...

Cheers, man. I saw your thread, and I love it. Spot on. Truly.
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,354
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4/2/2014 7:55:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/31/2014 5:56:35 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
Not long ago I contemplated leaving the site, but opted to return only to see it in worse shape than it was prior. This doesn't have much to do with prominent members -- Mikal, Imabench, etc. -- leaving or taking hiatuses, in spite of the fact that their decisions are merely symptoms of a broader, more germane problem. Indeed, DDO has a problem with trolling and votebombing -- we all know this. But with this new policy, I think it's fair to say that it's significantly overshooting and, in the process, deteriorating quality even further. But even without that new policy, I can't say that I find debating here enjoyable any longer. In fact, even the forums now have devolved into a self-righteous urination contest -- that's me censoring myself, by the way -- without the commitment to intellectual debate and academic rigor that drew me to the site.

So with that said, I'll be leaving -- for real this time. And no this is not an April Fool's joke.

Best, fellas,

~Paul

This is so sad.
Bye. You will be missed.

E.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.