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Amnesty for all immigrants Live Debate

ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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4/11/2014 8:31:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Live debate on google hangouts between Thett and I in thirty minutes.

This House believes that governments should grant amnesties to all illegal immigrants

CR: Aff
Thett3: Neg

Will post link in thirty minutes when we're starting. If you join, you will need to mute your mic and stay muted.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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4/11/2014 8:38:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 8:31:53 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Live debate on google hangouts between Thett and I in thirty minutes.

This House believes that governments should grant amnesties to all illegal immigrants

CR: Aff
Thett3: Neg

Will post link in thirty minutes when we're starting. If you join, you will need to mute your mic and stay muted.

Can you guys do a hangouts on air so I can watch it later?
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Raisor
Posts: 4,461
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4/11/2014 8:54:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 8:38:58 PM, TUF wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:31:53 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Live debate on google hangouts between Thett and I in thirty minutes.

This House believes that governments should grant amnesties to all illegal immigrants

CR: Aff
Thett3: Neg

Will post link in thirty minutes when we're starting. If you join, you will need to mute your mic and stay muted.

Can you guys do a hangouts on air so I can watch it later?

^ Seconded

Won't be able to catch the whole debate live...
thett3
Posts: 14,360
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4/11/2014 8:56:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 8:54:05 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:38:58 PM, TUF wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:31:53 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Live debate on google hangouts between Thett and I in thirty minutes.

This House believes that governments should grant amnesties to all illegal immigrants

CR: Aff
Thett3: Neg

Will post link in thirty minutes when we're starting. If you join, you will need to mute your mic and stay muted.

Can you guys do a hangouts on air so I can watch it later?

^ Seconded

Won't be able to catch the whole debate live...

Okay. I didn't want it recorded, but I'm okay with it on the condition that it doesn't leave PMs. I just dont want it posted in public
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Raisor
Posts: 4,461
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4/11/2014 9:01:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 8:56:59 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:54:05 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:38:58 PM, TUF wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:31:53 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Live debate on google hangouts between Thett and I in thirty minutes.

This House believes that governments should grant amnesties to all illegal immigrants

CR: Aff
Thett3: Neg

Will post link in thirty minutes when we're starting. If you join, you will need to mute your mic and stay muted.

Can you guys do a hangouts on air so I can watch it later?

^ Seconded

Won't be able to catch the whole debate live...

Okay. I didn't want it recorded, but I'm okay with it on the condition that it doesn't leave PMs. I just dont want it posted in public

I can sympathize. I think you have me on g+ so you could just email it if you prefer to keep it off DDO.
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,036
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4/11/2014 9:02:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 9:01:01 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:56:59 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:54:05 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:38:58 PM, TUF wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:31:53 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Live debate on google hangouts between Thett and I in thirty minutes.

This House believes that governments should grant amnesties to all illegal immigrants

CR: Aff
Thett3: Neg

Will post link in thirty minutes when we're starting. If you join, you will need to mute your mic and stay muted.

Can you guys do a hangouts on air so I can watch it later?

^ Seconded

Won't be able to catch the whole debate live...

Okay. I didn't want it recorded, but I'm okay with it on the condition that it doesn't leave PMs. I just dont want it posted in public

I can sympathize. I think you have me on g+ so you could just email it if you prefer to keep it off DDO.

Wait, y'all are talking about the recorded version that people want to watch later right? Because I'm still wanting to watch this go down Live if possible.
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thett3
Posts: 14,360
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4/11/2014 9:04:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 9:02:10 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/11/2014 9:01:01 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:56:59 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:54:05 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:38:58 PM, TUF wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:31:53 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Live debate on google hangouts between Thett and I in thirty minutes.

This House believes that governments should grant amnesties to all illegal immigrants

CR: Aff
Thett3: Neg

Will post link in thirty minutes when we're starting. If you join, you will need to mute your mic and stay muted.

Can you guys do a hangouts on air so I can watch it later?

^ Seconded

Won't be able to catch the whole debate live...

Okay. I didn't want it recorded, but I'm okay with it on the condition that it doesn't leave PMs. I just dont want it posted in public

I can sympathize. I think you have me on g+ so you could just email it if you prefer to keep it off DDO.

Wait, y'all are talking about the recorded version that people want to watch later right? Because I'm still wanting to watch this go down Live if possible.

heres the link https://plus.google.com...

we are about to start
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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4/11/2014 9:06:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 9:04:46 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 9:02:10 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/11/2014 9:01:01 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:56:59 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:54:05 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:38:58 PM, TUF wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:31:53 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Live debate on google hangouts between Thett and I in thirty minutes.

This House believes that governments should grant amnesties to all illegal immigrants

CR: Aff
Thett3: Neg

Will post link in thirty minutes when we're starting. If you join, you will need to mute your mic and stay muted.

Can you guys do a hangouts on air so I can watch it later?

^ Seconded

Won't be able to catch the whole debate live...

Okay. I didn't want it recorded, but I'm okay with it on the condition that it doesn't leave PMs. I just dont want it posted in public

I can sympathize. I think you have me on g+ so you could just email it if you prefer to keep it off DDO.

Wait, y'all are talking about the recorded version that people want to watch later right? Because I'm still wanting to watch this go down Live if possible.

heres the link https://plus.google.com...

we are about to start

Hold up, I'll be there in a second. Let me find my headphones.
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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4/11/2014 9:09:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Everybody who joins has to mute their microphones.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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4/11/2014 9:17:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
New link for on air-

https://plus.google.com...
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
Raisor
Posts: 4,461
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4/11/2014 9:54:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 9:04:46 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 9:02:10 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 4/11/2014 9:01:01 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:56:59 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:54:05 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:38:58 PM, TUF wrote:
At 4/11/2014 8:31:53 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Live debate on google hangouts between Thett and I in thirty minutes.

This House believes that governments should grant amnesties to all illegal immigrants

CR: Aff
Thett3: Neg

Will post link in thirty minutes when we're starting. If you join, you will need to mute your mic and stay muted.

Can you guys do a hangouts on air so I can watch it later?

^ Seconded

Won't be able to catch the whole debate live...

Okay. I didn't want it recorded, but I'm okay with it on the condition that it doesn't leave PMs. I just dont want it posted in public

I can sympathize. I think you have me on g+ so you could just email it if you prefer to keep it off DDO.

Wait, y'all are talking about the recorded version that people want to watch later right? Because I'm still wanting to watch this go down Live if possible.

heres the link https://plus.google.com...

we are about to start

"This party is over"
thett3
Posts: 14,360
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4/11/2014 10:46:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
anyone who wants to watch on youtube can message me or classic for the link
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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4/11/2014 10:56:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Anyone who wants to watch the debate now, feel free to shoot me a message and I'll send you the link.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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4/11/2014 11:26:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The problem I had in judging this was that you guys didn't weigh the arguments against each other (outside of costs vs costs). For instance, lets say Robert wins Democracy but Thett wins Costs. Now what? Or if Thett wins Gridlock but Robert wins Costs. How do I determine which impact is greater? I'm not told how. Thankfully I was able to decide this without doing too much improvising.

Right to move

This will link into Cost. Robert, contrary to what Thett says, does offer a justification for the right to move. He says that its because liberty includes people being able to act in their own interest and the fact that someone moving to another country is harmless. However, if being granted amnesty would harm the US (as Thett argues), then its not harmless, and also, acting in their own interest would be acting against the interests of others. So this comes down to the Util argument.

Costs

I think Thett makes a compelling argument that the welfare system will have already become extremely damaged by the time the immigrants have reversed their fortunes. Obviously, going from a population that typically makes sub-minimum wage to a population thats pouring a net gain into the government's tax revenue is a process thats going to take awhile. And not just a net gain, but such a significant net gain that it would outweigh the damage that had already been done. I'll buy that the economic harms would be too great and that welfare would collapse by the time this happens. I also buy that this happens before their increased birth rate is able to have a tangible effect. Thats another shift that would take a lot of time. I also buy these impacts especially considering that Robert didn't respond to the fact that the welfare system is in horrible shape as it is.

I don't think Con responds to Robert's claim that the White House got an nonpartisan organization to conduct their studies. He invokes Occam's Razor to try and say that we know prima facie that 11 million new lower-class citizens will hurt the economy more than help, but Robert's empirical facts are going to outweigh intuition every time. So now I have to weigh 2.2 million jobs and 1.4 trillion to the GDP vs Collapse of the welfare system. This is another thing I'm not told how to weigh. You guys do consistently say "these costs outweigh his" but don't really crunch the numbers and explain how. So I'm gonna use my own knowledge to decide this: There's 2.2 million jobs created by affirming, but there are over 100 million people on welfare. So...yeah.

Democracy

I'm still not sold on the impact. Robert, you say that democracy is a founding principle of the country and that we should therefore care about it, but like i said to start this post, how much should we care? Should democracy be the end-all be-all of the debate round? I just don't think you did enough to explain why this should be prioritized as highly as costs, especially considering that both debaters spend 5x more of their time on that argument than this one. Also, Thett tells me in his second speech that I shouldn't care about Justice or Morality and only care about Util, and this wasn't responded to. So even though it contradicts his own case (Thett's C2 is based on fairness/justice) it at least helps to undermine this argument.

So basically I vote for Thett because his impact on Costs is greater.

Robert, you're a beast speaker. I'd give you 6 speaks if this was an LD round. I'd give Thett 5 because he also did a great job, but had a couple instances where he seemed to lose his train of thought and caused him to sputter for a bit. Other than that, you guys did great.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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4/12/2014 12:04:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Dang! I missed it!
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle