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The Cult of Imabench.

tylergraham95
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4/15/2014 1:34:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Friends, Romans, Countrymen. Lend me your ears. I come to discuss Imabench, not to bash him.

But seriously, let's talk cult personalities.

With Imabench's recent retirement from DDO, there has been quite a bit of drama (I myself even got in a bit of a flame-war with mr. bench). There seems to be many people who have gone into hysteria over the news that Imabench has been driven off the site by the new policy, and many people have expressed their remorse over his leaving. I believe that Imabench is a textbook example of a "cult personality."

This is not necessarily a negative title. Becoming a cult personality is not necessarily the fault of the person. Imabench is a lovable guy. Many of his contributions to the site of been positive (DDO Walking dead springs to mind most immediately). He has inspired many interesting discussions and posted many creative debates/narratives.

But I would also argue that many site members have begun to idolize him. A cult personality is defined by Wikipedia as follows: "A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media, propaganda, or other methods, to create an idealized, heroic, and at times, worshipful image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise."

I would argue that that description fits Imabench almost disturbingly well. The image of Imabench has been transformed into a knight-like crusader who fights for the better of the site always. A master troll of unwavering nobility. Many people have lost sight of the fact, though, that Imabench is far from perfect (he even admits this himself). I would assert that although he has contributed greatly to the site, he has also in many ways harmed the site greatly. Whether or not the members he has driven off should have been driven off is debatable, and not for Imabench to have decided. He has bullied and harassed many members, and tends to bring out the worst in them. His tactic is typically to harass a naive, or awkward member, until the member becomes enraged and unruly, and then returns fire to imabench. Then, bench plays the victim. This is both dishonorable, and immature.

Still, though, people promulgate that he was a hero to the site, and that he must be allowed to continue what he does unquestioned. He is almost worshiped by members such as daytonanerd and bullish.

Although it is sad that DDO will no longer see the positive contributions Imabench has made, I think many members would agree that many of Imabench's habits were only hurtful to the site as a whole.

When the idealization ends, members will hopefully realize that Imabench's departure will ultimately be likely a net benefit for the site.
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
tylergraham95
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4/15/2014 1:43:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 1:37:39 PM, Cermank wrote:
k

Thoughts? Critiques? Would you care to disagree with the assertion that Imabench fit the definition of a "cult personality?"
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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4/15/2014 1:47:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 1:43:42 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:37:39 PM, Cermank wrote:
k

Thoughts? Critiques? Would you care to disagree with the assertion that Imabench fit the definition of a "cult personality?"

no
tylergraham95
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4/15/2014 1:52:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 1:47:10 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:43:42 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:37:39 PM, Cermank wrote:
k

Thoughts? Critiques? Would you care to disagree with the assertion that Imabench fit the definition of a "cult personality?"

no

Care to comment on the weather?
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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4/15/2014 1:56:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 1:52:26 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:47:10 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:43:42 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:37:39 PM, Cermank wrote:
k

Thoughts? Critiques? Would you care to disagree with the assertion that Imabench fit the definition of a "cult personality?"

no

Care to comment on the weather?

Its weird. Its cold when I turn on the AC and hot when I turn it off. Like wtf am I supposed to do
tylergraham95
Posts: 1,461
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4/15/2014 1:57:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 1:56:07 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:52:26 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:47:10 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:43:42 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:37:39 PM, Cermank wrote:
k

Thoughts? Critiques? Would you care to disagree with the assertion that Imabench fit the definition of a "cult personality?"

no

Care to comment on the weather?

Its weird. Its cold when I turn on the AC and hot when I turn it off. Like wtf am I supposed to do

In the words of Peregrine Took, "Yes we've had first winter, but what about second winter..... and third...... and fourth?"

(At least, that's how it feels here in Alabama)
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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4/15/2014 2:01:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 1:57:40 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:56:07 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:52:26 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:47:10 PM, Cermank wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:43:42 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:37:39 PM, Cermank wrote:
k

Thoughts? Critiques? Would you care to disagree with the assertion that Imabench fit the definition of a "cult personality?"

no

Care to comment on the weather?

Its weird. Its cold when I turn on the AC and hot when I turn it off. Like wtf am I supposed to do

In the words of Peregrine Took, "Yes we've had first winter, but what about second winter..... and third...... and fourth?"

(At least, that's how it feels here in Alabama)

It's okay it's April and I'm still getting hail. In Texas.
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tylergraham95
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4/15/2014 2:03:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 2:01:57 PM, Zaradi wrote:

It's okay it's April and I'm still getting hail. In Texas.

It's the apocalypse.

So what do you think of the OP?
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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4/15/2014 2:07:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 2:03:56 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 2:01:57 PM, Zaradi wrote:

It's okay it's April and I'm still getting hail. In Texas.

It's the apocalypse.

So what do you think of the OP?

k
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
tylergraham95
Posts: 1,461
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4/15/2014 2:09:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 2:07:53 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 4/15/2014 2:03:56 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 2:01:57 PM, Zaradi wrote:

It's okay it's April and I'm still getting hail. In Texas.

It's the apocalypse.

So what do you think of the OP?

k

http://mediacdn.snorgcontent.com...
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
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4/15/2014 3:06:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 1:34:40 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
Friends, Romans, Countrymen. Lend me your ears. I come to discuss Imabench, not to bash him.

Later shown not to be true, if we continue to reading on. Seems like just some kind of attempted justification for saying all of this.

But seriously, let's talk cult personalities.

With Imabench's recent retirement from DDO, there has been quite a bit of drama (I myself even got in a bit of a flame-war with mr. bench). There seems to be many people who have gone into hysteria over the news that Imabench has been driven off the site by the new policy, and many people have expressed their remorse over his leaving. I believe that Imabench is a textbook example of a "cult personality."

This is not necessarily a negative title. Becoming a cult personality is not necessarily the fault of the person. Imabench is a lovable guy. Many of his contributions to the site of been positive (DDO Walking dead springs to mind most immediately). He has inspired many interesting discussions and posted many creative debates/narratives.

But I would also argue that many site members have begun to idolize him. A cult personality is defined by Wikipedia as follows: "A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media, propaganda, or other methods, to create an idealized, heroic, and at times, worshipful image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise."

Not true. Imabench didn't use his 'mass media' or 'propaganda' of any kind to paint himself as a great guy. He used it, most times, to call out idiots. Imabench's praising has come from our perception of his actions, which, speaking for myself, seems to have been benefiting the site.

I would argue that that description fits Imabench almost disturbingly well. The image of Imabench has been transformed into a knight-like crusader who fights for the better of the site always. A master troll of unwavering nobility.

These things are true of Ima. He was, no donut, a master of the trolling. His actions, almost always, have been, while seemingly very harsh, have come out of his interest for the site, not some sort of sadism or personal satisfaction.

Many people have lost sight of the fact, though, that Imabench is far from perfect (he even admits this himself). I would assert that although he has contributed greatly to the site, he has also in many ways harmed the site greatly. Whether or not the members he has driven off should have been driven off is debatable, and not for Imabench to have decided. He has bullied and harassed many members, and tends to bring out the worst in them. His tactic is typically to harass a naive, or awkward member, until the member becomes enraged and unruly, and then returns fire to imabench. Then, bench plays the victim. This is both dishonorable, and immature.

No, his targets are people who are commonly perceived to be idiotic in their ideas, AND spurt them off, to the annoyance of the DDO Populace. Ima was doing his best to prevent this place from becoming an intellectual wasteland, and he did a damn good job doing it. Have you stopped and looked at everyone Ima has targeted in his time on the site? Ultimately, by attacking these members across the site, Ima protected the intellectual oasis that we had for as long as he could, and he tried his best doing it.

Still, though, people promulgate that he was a hero to the site, and that he must be allowed to continue what he does unquestioned. He is almost worshiped by members such as daytonanerd and bullish.

What is the purpose of stating this? This just seems like targeting.(Insert 'Reported' joke here)

Although it is sad that DDO will no longer see the positive contributions Imabench has made, I think many members would agree that many of Imabench's habits were only hurtful to the site as a whole.

While many more will see them as having the site's best interest, and ultimately, a positive.

When the idealization ends, members will hopefully realize that Imabench's departure will ultimately be likely a net benefit for the site.

More likely, it is to be seen as a net negative for the site, when we see people swarming in that would normally be weeded out by Imabench, but instead, are given free reign to be idiots.
#FeeltheFreezerBern
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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4/15/2014 3:14:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 1:34:40 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
Friends, Romans, Countrymen. Lend me your ears. I come to discuss Imabench, not to bash him.

But seriously, let's talk cult personalities.

With Imabench's recent retirement from DDO, there has been quite a bit of drama (I myself even got in a bit of a flame-war with mr. bench). There seems to be many people who have gone into hysteria over the news that Imabench has been driven off the site by the new policy, and many people have expressed their remorse over his leaving. I believe that Imabench is a textbook example of a "cult personality."

This is not necessarily a negative title. Becoming a cult personality is not necessarily the fault of the person. Imabench is a lovable guy. Many of his contributions to the site of been positive (DDO Walking dead springs to mind most immediately). He has inspired many interesting discussions and posted many creative debates/narratives.

But I would also argue that many site members have begun to idolize him. A cult personality is defined by Wikipedia as follows: "A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media, propaganda, or other methods, to create an idealized, heroic, and at times, worshipful image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise."

I would argue that that description fits Imabench almost disturbingly well. The image of Imabench has been transformed into a knight-like crusader who fights for the better of the site always. A master troll of unwavering nobility. Many people have lost sight of the fact, though, that Imabench is far from perfect (he even admits this himself). I would assert that although he has contributed greatly to the site, he has also in many ways harmed the site greatly. Whether or not the members he has driven off should have been driven off is debatable, and not for Imabench to have decided. He has bullied and harassed many members, and tends to bring out the worst in them. His tactic is typically to harass a naive, or awkward member, until the member becomes enraged and unruly, and then returns fire to imabench. Then, bench plays the victim. This is both dishonorable, and immature.

Still, though, people promulgate that he was a hero to the site, and that he must be allowed to continue what he does unquestioned. He is almost worshiped by members such as daytonanerd and bullish.

Although it is sad that DDO will no longer see the positive contributions Imabench has made, I think many members would agree that many of Imabench's habits were only hurtful to the site as a whole.

When the idealization ends, members will hopefully realize that Imabench's departure will ultimately be likely a net benefit for the site.

I agree. Some members were severely harassed by him. On several occasions, members has completely ganged up on him when he was clearly acting terrible.
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sadolite
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4/15/2014 3:25:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 1:43:42 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:37:39 PM, Cermank wrote:
k

Thoughts? Critiques? Would you care to disagree with the assertion that Imabench fit the definition of a "cult personality?"

Rude, condescending and insulting comes to mind. A cult figure? Maybe to people with little going on in their life outside of DDO.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

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bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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4/15/2014 3:37:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Perhaps the point you're making is overstated. Insofar as you observes that Bench admits he is an imperfect human being, he cannot me the criteria of a cult figure you outlined, which requires such a figure to create and idolized image. I think Bench was pretty frank about his shortcomings on occasion--that is not to say he was not boastful, but who isn't. The point is, he never sought to use mass media to create a cult following.

However, I do think you have a point in that the discussion over his legacy has been mostly complimentary. Yes, there are those who have lauded his departure, but, in my purely subjective evaluation, the comments over his exodus have been more so expressing positive nostalgia at his leaving.

On one side, this tends to be normal. People try to see the good in those that they can no longer interact with. On the other hand, some members do ignore the less wholesome aspects of the things he did.

I think your OP is innaccurate inasmuch as the question should not be "was Bench a cult leader." Instead, the question should be, "is DDO making a fair and un-skewed analysis of his legacy on the site."
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SeventhProfessor
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4/15/2014 3:52:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
k
#UnbanTheMadman

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#BetOnThett

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Intrepid
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4/15/2014 3:57:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 1:34:40 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
Friends, Romans, Countrymen. Lend me your ears. I come to discuss Imabench, not to bash him.

Julius Caesar - Shakespeare?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/15/2014 3:58:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
He died from the site and was resurrected on 3 different occasions. Now he has left us seemingly forever. Now for a prophecy that came to me from an angel sent from B--ch himself.

The Prophecy of Imab--ch-

I won't reveal the whole prophecy right now, but I will give you a sample of what him who is holy, sent to me.

He will return during DDO's greatest time of need. He will return with a flaming sword (no offense) and send idiots to the eternal pit. He will then replace the one we shall not speak of as head moderator and defacto leader of the site.
lannan13
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4/15/2014 4:19:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 3:57:26 PM, Intrepid wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:34:40 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
Friends, Romans, Countrymen. Lend me your ears. I come to discuss Imabench, not to bash him.

Julius Caesar - Shakespeare?

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tylergraham95
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4/15/2014 4:43:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 3:25:05 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:43:42 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:37:39 PM, Cermank wrote:
k

Thoughts? Critiques? Would you care to disagree with the assertion that Imabench fit the definition of a "cult personality?"

Rude, condescending and insulting comes to mind. A cult figure? Maybe to people with little going on in their life outside of DDO.

I wasn't saying that all of DDOs members were a part of the "cult of personality."

Furthermore, I don't see how any of what I said was rude, condescending, or insulting. Becoming a cult personality takes a great deal of charisma.
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
tylergraham95
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4/15/2014 4:52:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 3:06:51 PM, daytonanerd wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:34:40 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:
Friends, Romans, Countrymen. Lend me your ears. I come to discuss Imabench, not to bash him.

Later shown not to be true, if we continue to reading on. Seems like just some kind of attempted justification for saying all of this.

'Tis but comedy.


But seriously, let's talk cult personalities.

With Imabench's recent retirement from DDO, there has been quite a bit of drama (I myself even got in a bit of a flame-war with mr. bench). There seems to be many people who have gone into hysteria over the news that Imabench has been driven off the site by the new policy, and many people have expressed their remorse over his leaving. I believe that Imabench is a textbook example of a "cult personality."

This is not necessarily a negative title. Becoming a cult personality is not necessarily the fault of the person. Imabench is a lovable guy. Many of his contributions to the site of been positive (DDO Walking dead springs to mind most immediately). He has inspired many interesting discussions and posted many creative debates/narratives.

But I would also argue that many site members have begun to idolize him. A cult personality is defined by Wikipedia as follows: "A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media, propaganda, or other methods, to create an idealized, heroic, and at times, worshipful image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise."

Not true. Imabench didn't use his 'mass media' or 'propaganda' of any kind to paint himself as a great guy. He used it, most times, to call out idiots. Imabench's praising has come from our perception of his actions, which, speaking for myself, seems to have been benefiting the site.

I would consider his youtube show a form of "mass media." I never argued that he used propaganda (in the traditional sense) but the definitions states "mass media, propaganda, or other methods" It does not stipulate that propaganda and mass media are used.

The rest of your statement actually seems to further my point.


I would argue that that description fits Imabench almost disturbingly well. The image of Imabench has been transformed into a knight-like crusader who fights for the better of the site always. A master troll of unwavering nobility.

These things are true of Ima. He was, no donut, a master of the trolling. His actions, almost always, have been, while seemingly very harsh, have come out of his interest for the site, not some sort of sadism or personal satisfaction.

I would agree that his intent was good, but I would argue that his method was immature and unjust.

I would argue that he got some kind of satisfaction from harassing other members, but that is merely conjecture.


Many people have lost sight of the fact, though, that Imabench is far from perfect (he even admits this himself). I would assert that although he has contributed greatly to the site, he has also in many ways harmed the site greatly. Whether or not the members he has driven off should have been driven off is debatable, and not for Imabench to have decided. He has bullied and harassed many members, and tends to bring out the worst in them. His tactic is typically to harass a naive, or awkward member, until the member becomes enraged and unruly, and then returns fire to imabench. Then, bench plays the victim. This is both dishonorable, and immature.

No, his targets are people who are commonly perceived to be idiotic in their ideas, AND spurt them off, to the annoyance of the DDO Populace. Ima was doing his best to prevent this place from becoming an intellectual wasteland, and he did a damn good job doing it. Have you stopped and looked at everyone Ima has targeted in his time on the site? Ultimately, by attacking these members across the site, Ima protected the intellectual oasis that we had for as long as he could, and he tried his best doing it.

Protecting an "intellectual oasis" via non-intellectual attacks and debates that (albeit entertaining) far from intellectual? Again, Bench had the right intentions, but they did not justify bullying. As I have stated, the users STALIN and Caploxion both would not have turned so foul had bench not goaded them into it.


Still, though, people promulgate that he was a hero to the site, and that he must be allowed to continue what he does unquestioned. He is almost worshiped by members such as daytonanerd and bullish.

What is the purpose of stating this? This just seems like targeting.(Insert 'Reported' joke here)

I was simply citing examples of members who I believe have began to idealize imabench. I meant no offense.


Although it is sad that DDO will no longer see the positive contributions Imabench has made, I think many members would agree that many of Imabench's habits were only hurtful to the site as a whole.

While many more will see them as having the site's best interest, and ultimately, a positive.

I've said it once, I'll say it again: Bullying is never a justified course of action, no matter what the intent.


When the idealization ends, members will hopefully realize that Imabench's departure will ultimately be likely a net benefit for the site.

More likely, it is to be seen as a net negative for the site, when we see people swarming in that would normally be weeded out by Imabench, but instead, are given free reign to be idiots.

You cannot champion the ability to call people idiots under the banner of free speech while simultaneously claiming that people aren't entitled to opinions that you view as "idiotic."

That, friend, is hypocrisy.
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
tylergraham95
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4/15/2014 4:54:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 3:37:00 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Perhaps the point you're making is overstated. Insofar as you observes that Bench admits he is an imperfect human being, he cannot me the criteria of a cult figure you outlined, which requires such a figure to create and idolized image. I think Bench was pretty frank about his shortcomings on occasion--that is not to say he was not boastful, but who isn't. The point is, he never sought to use mass media to create a cult following.

I wouldn't say that bench purposefully created a "cult of personality" or that he himself even thought of himself as above critique. I would say, though, that a cult of personality did form, due to his charismatic nature.

However, I do think you have a point in that the discussion over his legacy has been mostly complimentary. Yes, there are those who have lauded his departure, but, in my purely subjective evaluation, the comments over his exodus have been more so expressing positive nostalgia at his leaving.

On one side, this tends to be normal. People try to see the good in those that they can no longer interact with. On the other hand, some members do ignore the less wholesome aspects of the things he did.

I think your OP is innaccurate inasmuch as the question should not be "was Bench a cult leader." Instead, the question should be, "is DDO making a fair and un-skewed analysis of his legacy on the site."

The latter is more accurate to the message that I was attempting to articulate (it seems I have failed).
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
tylergraham95
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4/15/2014 4:55:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 3:58:51 PM, Wylted wrote:
He died from the site and was resurrected on 3 different occasions. Now he has left us seemingly forever. Now for a prophecy that came to me from an angel sent from B--ch himself.

The Prophecy of Imab--ch-

I won't reveal the whole prophecy right now, but I will give you a sample of what him who is holy, sent to me.

He will return during DDO's greatest time of need. He will return with a flaming sword (no offense) and send idiots to the eternal pit. He will then replace the one we shall not speak of as head moderator and defacto leader of the site.

9/10. Would read again.
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
tylergraham95
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4/15/2014 4:58:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 3:06:51 PM, daytonanerd wrote:

I would like to state now that though I likely come across as blunt and rude, I do enjoy very much the interaction we've had as of late. Talking and debating with you has proved itself to be both entertaining, and educating. Finally, I'd like to say that I in no way mean to insult or belittle you when we have our discussions.
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)
YYW
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4/15/2014 5:32:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 1:34:40 PM, tylergraham95 wrote:

You didn't need to make this post, dude. That's just... too much to say publicly.
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tylergraham95
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4/15/2014 5:50:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 5:27:44 PM, Mikal wrote:
VTL TYLER

2/7

We need 7 to lynch.

Don't lynch. IWWTT.
"we dig" - Jeanette Runquist (1943 - 2015)